Differences in JDM and USDM 2020 Metaniums

[CFDoc]

 

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Centrifugal brakes cut out at low speed.

 

"Low speed" is relative to the centrifugal setting. The engagement/disengagement speed varies wildly depending on how its set. You can make the centrifugal brake play a substantial or minimal (basically zero) role in the cast when skipping.

 

When I skip, the centrifugal system plays almost no role in the cast (I usually lock all weights so the moment of inertia of the spool is constant with angular velocity). This is true for the Shimanos, Lews, Garcias, Pfluegers, and Daiwa's I can all skip equally well. Again, I still have no idea why you (a) are singling out the SVS system on Shimanos, and (b) suggesting I rely on it to do my skipping. 

 

I'd suggest you go watch and pay close attention to the best skippers. They are not all using Daiwa's and the centrifugal system is a non-issue.

 

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Skipping is about low speed control

 

You must not do a lot of skipping or you only lightly skip short distances. Those 30 - 50 ft skips where the bait makes contact with the water for several seconds and "runs out" for a long distance on top of the water requires initial spool speeds comparable to a regular "high speed" cast. You need all around high/low-speed spool control to be a complete skipper.

 

Again, go watch someone like Gerald Swindle backhand skip a dock in front of him with a light/low-speed cast and then directly toss a full speed, forehand cast to the dock 50 ft away from him. I dare you to suggest he only uses low speed control in his skipping. lol

 

This is bad, dude. Just bad.

 

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You have to instead rely on spool tension and tumb pressure to skip with a centrifugal reel.

 

And getting worse...

 

This statement is 100% false. I rely on neither of those.

 

My spool tension is never touched once I get any line/bait combination to freely fall. If anything, I loosen it up after that. Even for skipping.

 

My thumb pressure is also not used to completely control the cast during the skip. I use my thumb to get a feel for the line coming off the spool. I do not press the spool directly (except on the new metanium because the spool is so d**n narrow).

 

If you skip as much as I do, you come to realize that all skips are not the same. Especially for baits like chatterbaits or jigs with large trailers on them. Sometimes a bait will "run out" perfectly just as expected. Sometimes, a trailer gets in the way, the vibrating blade folds down and kills the skip, a small wave in the water kills the skip, you miss the first dock piling but forgot about the one behind it, etc. etc. etc.

 

These nuances and just straight up stochastic nature of skipping means you've got to be ready for anything. This is why I need to "feel" the line lightly as the skip starts. This is also true regardless of Daiwa's SV spool, air brake, etc. 

 

 

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Certainly doable but you might as well be using an antique reel if you are going to rely on thumb pressure and spool tension to skip.

 

Terrible assumption on your part. Just terrible.

 

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Compare this to say, a Daiwa SV spool reel and I can skip with minimal thumb or no thumb with zero spool tension and weightless plastics at that.

 

I'd love to forward this to Andy Montgomery or G-Man and let them see what gets tossed around as "advice" here. There are no inducting rotor air brakes on Lew's reels and I'll bet they are skipping just fine. 

 

Anyways, regardless of particular manufacturer's ad campaigns, the physics of skipping is really not that hard. Furthermore, suggesting that anyone using a reel without the dynamic magnetic system at "low speeds" is a "crazy person" is just the type of sanctimonious, ignorant, and disingenuous bs that this place reeks of. And I'm calling you out on it and asking you to stop.

  

 

[DomQ]

Getting off topic guys ?

[CFDoc]

Apologies.

 

Took me a bit to figure out the Daiwa fanboys are using underhanded, passive aggressive techniques these days.

 

Should be good now though.

[WPCfishing]

What is the size and shape difference between the Metanium MGL 151 and the Chronach?

 

I have 3 Chonarch MGL reels. Looking at buying a couple Mets.

 

 

[PhishLI]

On 5/23/2020 at 11:48 PM, CFDoc said:

Having said that, I was most disappointed in the reel here. The spool width is so narrow, my thumb easily covers the entire spool and rubs both sides of the spool. The problem with skipping is that I rely heavily on my thumb to feel the line unspool during the cast and apply slight pressure to control the skip. Well with this narrow spool, I can't get my thumb near the line without applying pressure to the sides of the spool which ultimately kills the cast.

Spool width and skipping is something that's not often talked about. The reel with the widest spool in my pile is a Pflueger Supreme XT. When I'm skipping or pitching heavier baits it's more likely than not that I'll be using this reel, and it's precisely because my fat thumb touches nothing but the line and not the spool itself. It uses a 6 pin spring loaded centrifugal braking system, so it's essentially off for that duty with one pin engaged which is how it's set for general casting duty.  So, I'm with you on this point. 

[CFDoc]

Here's another attempt at some pics.

 

 

 

 

 

[WPCfishing]

1 hour ago, CFDoc said:

Here's another attempt at some pics.

 

 

 

 

 

Is the reel similar in size and feel of the K, Chonarch or?

[mrpao]

To me, mine feels like the cross between a core 50 and bantam mgl.

[WPCfishing]

17 hours ago, CFDoc said:

I sure would love to know why. 
 

The SVS system is nothing more than a dynamic braking system that changes the moment of inertia of the spool at speed. It’s nothing more than the figure skater concept of speeding up/slowing down by pulling in/extending out their arms.

 

Almost every single baitcast reel from every major brand has had some form of inertial braking on their reels for years and years now.

 

I would truly love to know how Shimano’s SVS inertial braking system has any negative effects on skipping.

I’ve sold off most of my Lews reels. Last year late summer I bought a Bantam and a Chronarch. Game over.. I have 7 MiJs and one SLX MiM. 
I want a couple of the Mets. I need info from others who have them before I buy. Chronarchs are hard to beat. 

[CFDoc]

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Is the reel similar in size and feel of the K, Chonarch or?

 

Definitely not the same feel as the K. I've owned Shimano's in the past, but these Metaniums are my first Shimano's in about 7-8 years or so. I had an awful experience with Shimano USA way back when and stopped using them. When this 2020 Metanium came out, I decided to give them another shot.

 

Having said that, my boat partner is a 100% Shimano guy and I've used his reels for various things over the years. He's got K's, chronarchs, Metanium DC, and a few more I've forgotten about I'm sure. 

 

This 2020 metanium is easily the most compact and palmable Shimano baitcaster I've held. Maybe the Aldebaran is similar, but I wouldn't know from experience.

 

My current arsenal of baitcasters is 15 rod/reels that include Lews (SLP Pro, SLP Lite, and HyperMags), Pflueger Patriartch XT's, Garcia Revo Premiers (Gen 4), and Tatula150.

 

I would say that this Metanium palms very similarly to the HyperMag. It's a comfortable palm and my index finger rests easily on the front of the reel without interrupting the line guide. It feels nothing like the Revo's and Tatula. 

 

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 I need info from others who have them before I buy.

 

Well here's my honest opinion so far. When I originally started looking at this reel, I was convinced this was going to be the best reel on the planet that could handle all of my fishing styles. I honestly thought I would be selling my entire lot of other reels and going with a dozen or so of these in the various gear ratios. 

 

What I have really come to appreciate is just how lucky we are as fisherman these days to have extremely capable and quality reels from a lot of different manufacturers and price points. My frankencluster of reels span anywhere from $150 - $400 per reel, and there are applications where the $150 reels outperform the $400 reels just as much as the opposite being true.

 

I've also come to appreciate just how hard it is for a manufacturer to make a single reel model that can excel in all aspects of finesse, power, cranking, skipping, etc. 

 

This is not to suggest the 2020 Metanium is some sort of slouch. There are a lot of areas where I am impressed by this reel and consider it the best money could buy. But I'm also able to see where other designs/manufacturers are better suited for other things. 

 

Lastly, I would say that I obviously can't measure durability at this point. But I'm sure this reel is built to last. If my 8 year old Patriarch XT (which has caught thousands of fish including LMB, limits and limits of speckled trout every year, bull reds, black drum, and 15 pound stripers) still performs good as new and only requires a DVT cleaning every other year or so, I'm certain this reel will be just as good.

 

 

[CFDoc]

34 minutes ago, BaitFinesse said:

You can do as you please and I am glad to see you stick with it trying to skip with Shimano SVS.  Everyone needs a hobby.  On the induction rotors of Lews reels: the magnetic portion of the Doyo dual brake found on many Lews products is well suited to skipping and the flat side of the spool is essentially an induction rotor when in the presence of magnets.  This is what I learned to skip with before switching to Daiwa and Shimano reels.  Having fished all 3 I can tell you that Dawia SV is lightyears ahead of both in the skipping department with Doyo dual brake making a distance 2nd place thanks to the linear magnetic braking component and Shimnao SVS not even being relevant to skipping.  Still I admire that you are sticking to your guns and skipping with Shimano SVS.  You're making it hard on yourself on purpose as a challenge which is admirable.  I just though you didn't know or had a poor understanding of the different types of braking systems and where each was strong and weak.   By all means keep skipping with SVS.  Sorry to hear that your special SVS skipping technique doesn't work with the new more narrow spools on the new mets.      

It takes a special kind of narcissist to project an austere understanding of the governing laws of physics in order to mask what’s ultimately nothing more than your lack of skill to skip a stupid bait across the water.

 

I’m not even mad, I’m impressed.

[Manifestgtr]

13 hours ago, CFDoc said:

Apologies.

 

Took me a bit to figure out the Daiwa fanboys are using underhanded, passive aggressive techniques these days.

 

Should be good now though.

Daiwa fanboy?

 

I’ve had recent conversations with this dude (and others here) about both Daiwa and Shimano...pros and cons. 

 

You’re watching too much reel test, man haha. Fanboys, haters...I’ve been lurking here for years and there isn’t a ton of that terminology or, indeed, a ton of those hard flag waving types around here. 

 

Alright, enough of that noise. On topic: I’ve been loving my 20 jdm met. Unless there’s some drastic difference in performance (which I can’t imagine), the usdm version has gotta be a monster, too. 

[DomQ]

10 hours ago, BaitFinesse said:

You can do as you please and I am glad to see you stick with it trying to skip with Shimano SVS.  Everyone needs a hobby.  On the induction rotors of Lews reels: the magnetic portion of the Doyo dual brake found on many Lews products is well suited to skipping and the flat side of the spool is essentially an induction rotor when in the presence of magnets.  This is what I learned to skip with before switching to Daiwa and Shimano reels.  Having fished all 3 I can tell you that Dawia SV is lightyears ahead of both in the skipping department with Doyo dual brake making a distance 2nd place thanks to the linear magnetic braking component and Shimnao SVS not even being relevant to skipping.  Still I admire that you are sticking to your guns and skipping with Shimano SVS.  You're making it hard on yourself on purpose as a challenge which is admirable.  I just though you didn't know or had a poor understanding of the different types of braking systems and where each was strong and weak.   By all means keep skipping with SVS.  Sorry to hear that your special SVS skipping technique doesn't work with the new more narrow spools on the new mets.      

 

10 hours ago, CFDoc said:

It takes a special kind of narcissist to project an austere understanding of the governing laws of physics in order to mask what’s ultimately nothing more than your lack of skill to skip a stupid bait across the water.

 

I’m not even mad, I’m impressed.

Guys take this to the DM’s. We came here for the 2020 metanium, not who can skip the dishes better with what brand of reel. 

22 hours ago, CFDoc said:

Here's another attempt at some pics.

 

 

 

 

 

The handle on the JDM looks nice, love how they changed the end caps on it. Nice refreshing look. Are they like the curado 70 knobs?

[CFDoc]

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You’re watching too much reel test, man haha. 

 

Is this some sort of club where anglers sit around and blame science for their poor fishing abilities? Is BaitFinesse the president of this club? lol

 

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The handle on the JDM looks nice, love how they changed the end caps on it. Nice refreshing look. Are they like the curado 70 knobs?

 

Me personally, I prefer the size of the USDM handles. 

 

Unsure about the Curado 70 comparison. I haven't held one of those in a looooong time.

[CFDoc]

Update on the JDM spool. Jun at Japan Tackle can get the JDM spools and mail them to the US.

 

He said it takes about 3 weeks to get them from Shimano. Then shipping time.

 

I highly recommend the JDM spool if you plan on using this reel for finesse applications and long distance casting applications with braid. I saw a substantial difference with the JDM spool for the better.

[DomQ]

14 minutes ago, CFDoc said:

Update on the JDM spool. Jun at Japan Tackle can get the JDM spools and mail them to the US.

 

He said it takes about 3 weeks to get them from Shimano. Then shipping time.

 

I highly recommend the JDM spool if you plan on using this reel for finesse applications and long distance casting applications with braid. I saw a substantial difference with the JDM spool for the better.

Did he give you a price on them!?!? I'd love to snag one

[CFDoc]

~$95 with DHL shipping.

 

Should be a good bit cheaper when EMS opens back up.

[CFDoc]

Got some JDM spools ordered from Jun.

 

Also did some measurements for those interested. The JDM spool is a tad under 7 mm deep. The USDM spool is pretty much dead on 10 mm deep.

[WPCfishing]

One more question. There’s the newer 2020 Mat.. I found the earlier version for $100.00 less. Is the 2020 worth the additional $100.00.

difference is basically the frame and gear material. It’s seems to me it’s just a slight weight reduction. Not a big issue for me. Your thoughts?

[CFDoc]

I don't have a good basis on the 2016 Metanium MGL. I can tell you it's a very different reel from the Metanium DC model. Much lighter, much more compact profile, different feel in casting and reeling. Just an overall much different reel. 

 

My guess is the differences in the 2016 & 2020 Metanium models is a good bit more than the weight reduction. From pictures, it does look like a smaller overall profile as well. 

[The Maestro]

13 hours ago, WPCfishing said:

One more question. There’s the newer 2020 Mat.. I found the earlier version for $100.00 less. Is the 2020 worth the additional $100.00.

difference is basically the frame and gear material. It’s seems to me it’s just a slight weight reduction. Not a big issue for me. Your thoughts?

They're really 2 completely different reels.

[jbsoonerfan]

13 hours ago, WPCfishing said:

One more question. There’s the newer 2020 Mat.. I found the earlier version for $100.00 less. Is the 2020 worth the additional $100.00.

difference is basically the frame and gear material. It’s seems to me it’s just a slight weight reduction. Not a big issue for me. Your thoughts?

Night and day comparing the two. Yes, the 2020 is worth the additional $100.

[Roderick Luckow]

I recently received two 2020 Mets and noticed that I’m unable to fully back off the drag on either. Is this normal for this model ?? because on every other shimano reel I have can back the drag off to the point where the handle turns without the spool spinning. 

[Manifestgtr]

4 minutes ago, Roderick Luckow said:

I recently received two 2020 Mets and noticed that I’m unable to fully back off the drag on either. Is this normal for this model ?? because on every other shimano reel I have can back the drag off to the point where the handle turns without the spool spinning. 

 

I wouldn’t be too worried about it. I’ve had a reel or two come in like that in the past. So far as I’ve experienced, it’s not really something that does any “damage” to your drag disks or shortens their life in any noticeable way. With those reels, I’ve noticed that if you engage the thumb bar, you can usually get your handle to turn freely or almost freely. To me, that says that it might be a grease thing or something along those lines...not necessarily a “tolerance” thing. 

[DomQ]

3 hours ago, Roderick Luckow said:

I recently received two 2020 Mets and noticed that I’m unable to fully back off the drag on either. Is this normal for this model ?? because on every other shimano reel I have can back the drag off to the point where the handle turns without the spool spinning. 

Ya that's normal, both of mine are the same.