Dumb question that I haven't been able to figure out

[NebraskaBass]

What is the main reason that medium power/mod action rods are recommended for lighter lures when it comes to plastics/finesse jigs? Is it due to the ease of casting lighter baits with a rod that is not as stiff? Or is it mainly due to the med/hvy and heavy/ fast x fast rods being too stiff for a hook set with lighter baits? Can you really not get away with finesse jigs/ shaky head type approaches when using a med/heavy fast or x fast rod? For example, using a medium/heavy rod rated for 3/8 to 1oz lures with a 1/4 oz shaky head. Is the issue that that a lighter/moderate action will cast easier or is the concern that the rod is too stiff on the hook set?

Thanks

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Who’s making that recommendation? You’d have to ask them. I don’t agree with any of those assertions. A slower action doesn’t equate to a softer tip or better loading. 

[NebraskaBass]

Im basically referring to finesse fishing and the like. I see people recommending medium rods all the time when it comes to lighter plastics. 

[JediAmoeba]

1 minute ago, NebraskaBass said:

Im basically referring to finesse fishing and the like. I see people recommending medium rods all the time when it comes to lighter plastics. 

Medium power or less on a lot of light plastics, but not usually a moderate action.  It all depends on the plastic, the hook and where I am fishing it.

[Teal]

I dont agree with any of that.  Sure my cranking rod has more whip and flex to it, but I can still cast a 1/4 jig with my 7'1 heavy xf rod just as well.  It loads fine, sure it likes a 3/8 better.  From my experience and my own rods, I've always seen medium or mh with f or xf for soft plastics.  Once and a blue moon I have seen one or two on TW labeled as a worm rod with mod fast action, but taper is subjective.  While there is a standard that we judge it bu, who's to say that rod company X and rod company z agree on what an xf action is.  And I don't think a rod can be too stiff to set the hook.

For light and finesse plastics or even small hair jigs I use a medium with a fast action.   I'm talking weightless to 3/16 weight and the plastic lure.   And if it's in a lot of thick matted grass, I'll just a mh or a h

[WIGuide]

Curious as to where you've heard of moderate action rods being used for those applications. I'm in the same boat as the others who have commented that I disagree with using mod action rods for single hook applications. I'll throw a lot of lighter weight stuff on a medium power rod, but they're mediums with a fast or x-fast action. 

[Mobasser]

I have a couple of med action rods I use for lighter line fishing. I use them for 4" worms, small jigs, Beetle Spins, etc. Both are fast action, very little tip flex. They cast lighter lures well, and work good with 6 or 8lb line.

[MassYak85]

Usually you want a faster ACTION for those techniques but a lighter POWER rod (medium, even medium light for stuff like ned rigs). The reason being you're talking small thin wire hooks that don't require much to set, a heavy power would probably bend out the hooks. A lighter power rod will also load up better (ideally) with those lighter finesse baits. Throwing them far or accurately on a frog rod for example would be almost impossible. 

[Mobasser]

Some guys like a med/light for certain baits with light line. The concept was better casting distance, and the softer tip acted as a cushion for light line. With today's lines and super sharp hooks, that may not be important anymore. Mine are both medium, very fast action, and I use them.for baits up to 1/4 oz with no problems.

[Vilas15]

10 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

A slower action doesn’t equate to a softer tip or better loading. 

Trying to resist derailing the thread, but Im just too confused by this. Please explain if you don't mind.

[NebraskaBass]

So then let me ask this. Why the medium power rod for light jigs/plastics over a medium/heavy? Is there any downside to using a medium/heavy rod for lighter line/baits?

 

thanks

Edited May 14, 2020 by NebraskaBass

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

1 hour ago, Vilas15 said:

Trying to resist derailing the thread, but Im just too confused by this. Please explain if you don't mind.

The power of the rod blank determines how much weight or pressure is needed deflect/load the blank. The action is only where along the length the blank bends when the load is applied. You can have a very stiff moderate fast action like you’d find on a flipping stick, you can get a soft tip with a fast action such as that found on some labeled as popping rods and everything in between. All else being equal, if you take two blanks of identical Power, and apply a given amount of weight Deflecting the rods to the same level, one will bend in a more shallow angle which doesn’t make it softer, only slower action. 

[bwjay]

12 hours ago, NebraskaBass said:

What is the main reason that medium power/mod action rods are recommended for lighter lures when it comes to plastics/finesse jigs? Is it due to the ease of casting lighter baits with a rod that is not as stiff? Or is it mainly due to the med/hvy and heavy/ fast x fast rods being too stiff for a hook set with lighter baits? Can you really not get away with finesse jigs/ shaky head type approaches when using a med/heavy fast or x fast rod? For example, using a medium/heavy rod rated for 3/8 to 1oz lures with a 1/4 oz shaky head. Is the issue that that a lighter/moderate action will cast easier or is the concern that the rod is too stiff on the hook set?

Thanks

You got it. It's hard to cast anything with a stiff rod that doesn't load up and help you whip the lure. With light stuff, it helps to have a softer rod (lighter power and/or slower taper) that loads up and slingshots the lure for you. In addition, stiffer/heavier power rods just take up line more rapidly because they don't flex as much, so you can end up pulling the lure out of the fish's mouth, and in some cases, you can bend out hooks if your drag is too tight, on a stiffer rod with heavier line than you should use for light finesse baits.

 

As for moderate actions for light baits, moderate is too slow and generally is only used for cranking and maybe spinnerbaits/chatterbaits. If you mean moderate-fast, then yes, I've seen many people talk about liking slower tapers for jigs and topwaters and lighter baits, because they load up nicely so you can sling baits far, detect bites visually with the soft tip, and get a sort of delayed hookset when fish slap at a topwater bait which is nice because it can be hard to delay the hookset when you see fish blow up.

 

Personally I have come to love slightly softer rods because they sling baits far and make it easier to see/feel bites due to the tip deflection when working bottom contact or worms. Soft rods generally aren't as sensitive as stiff rods because they don't transmit the vibration as well, but you can still have very sensitive rods with slower tapers or soft tips. The Kistler Helium3 line is a great example; they have a softer tip and sling baits pretty far, but are still pretty darn sensitive for the money.

[Mobasser]

I woudnt over think it too much. I like a medium for lighter baits because it weighs less, and a little more comfortable to use. If you can cast a 1/4 oz shakey head with your rod, so be it. Finesse bass fishing started with med med/ med/lt rods and 6 to 8lb mono line. Now finesse means a lot of different things to different people.

[MassYak85]

30 minutes ago, NebraskaBass said:

So then let me ask this. Why the medium power rod for light jigs/plastics over a medium/heavy? Is there any downside to using a medium/heavy rod for lighter line/baits?

 

thanks

Depends what you mean by light. If you're talking weightless senkos or something they're still fairly heavy baits, about 3/8oz I believe without the hook. That will do fine on a medium heavy because it is heavy enough to properly load the rod when casting, and you're probably talking 10-15lb line. If we're talking an 1/8 oz ned rig though, it won't load up the MH rod fully and you will have issues casting it. Plus if you're using light line, say 6lb flouro and that tiny ned rig hook, you want a rod that will load easier (less "weight" to load the rod) to start taking some of the shock of setting the hook and fighting the fish rather than your tiny hook and line taking it before the rod is fully loaded and breaking you off. If you tried fishing a ned rig on a Heavy power frog rod with 6lb line you'd never load up the rod before breaking off.  It needs too much "weight" to load the rod for the technqiue and line choice. But if you're using a Medium Light rod it will full load up well before the line breaks. Then it's just a game of using your drag properly. 

 

There's no hard and fast rules everyone has preferences but if you go waaaay outside the usual you will know it. Either by having limited casting distance, bending hooks, breaking off, or losing a lot of fish. Adjust accordingly. 

[Vilas15]

26 minutes ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

All else being equal, if you take two blanks of identical Power, and apply a given amount of weight Deflecting the rods to the same level

If this is true that the tip would deflect the same amount, then I understand now. I'd like to do some testing to see if this is the case but I don't have the right rods. Confusion comes from the fact that I've always though of it as the same power rods would have the same blank diameter at the handle, and the action determines how the diameter changes as you go to the end. In this way, a moderate action would likely deflect farther if power is the same. I'd like to see a chart of blank diameter along the length of different models all from the same manufacturer.

[bwjay]

1 hour ago, Vilas15 said:

If this is true that the tip would deflect the same amount, then I understand now. I'd like to do some testing to see if this is the case but I don't have the right rods. Confusion comes from the fact that I've always though of it as the same power rods would have the same blank diameter at the handle, and the action determines how the diameter changes as you go to the end. In this way, a moderate action would likely deflect farther if power is the same. I'd like to see a chart of blank diameter along the length of different models all from the same manufacturer.

You are correct. Same thickness at the handle, but tapering at different rates as the blank progresses to the tip. The deflection behavior will vary based on the taper - a fast taper will deflect less than a moderate taper.

[WRB]

Take a look at Major Craft Don Iovino rods they are medium /fast action. Don is a Hall of Fame finesse bass angler and knows exactly what a goof finesse rod shoukd be.

Tom

[Yumeya]

Lighter rods cast lighter lures better, physics prove that.

 

A lighter bait will load a lighter blank vs a heavy blank and get better distance.

 

The only moderate action rod I own is my crankbait rod.

 

 

[NOC 1]

On 5/14/2020 at 12:04 PM, Vilas15 said:

If this is true that the tip would deflect the same amount, then I understand now. I'd like to do some testing to see if this is the case but I don't have the right rods. Confusion comes from the fact that I've always though of it as the same power rods would have the same blank diameter at the handle, and the action determines how the diameter changes as you go to the end. In this way, a moderate action would likely deflect farther if power is the same. I'd like to see a chart of blank diameter along the length of different models all from the same manufacturer.

They will deflect a different amount. That is the whole point.

Look at it like this...if you put a 1lb weight on all the different rods they would all deflect a different way.

an XF would have a skinny tip and the tip would deflect more than a Fast or Moderate, but it starts bending the rest of the blank a lot higher say 10-12" down and so it would all in all deflect the whole rod less.

 

A Moderate action bends more smoothly and transitions the force down the blank more equally say 1/2 way down the rod so that the rod bends like a rainbow (parabola)