And you wonder why they are not accurate

[Way2slow]

Brand new Remington 700 6.5 Creedmoore with 26" Varmint barrel.  Just took it out of the box after getting it from BPS and doing my initial cleaning and inspection.

This is what it looks like after Remington did their test fire. 

First picture is copper off the bullet when chambered pilled up in the throat.

The second is the copper guilded to the lands in the barrel, and this was after a number of passes with a bronze blush and copper removing bore cleaner.

 

This is a rifle I bought on clearance at a good price just for the action for a build I want to do.  Been a long time since I've looked at a new Remington barrel, and dang glad this wasn't a rifle I planed to use.

Just for the challenge, I do plan to lap the barrel, pillar bed the action and do some of my magic just to see how well I can get it to shoot.  It's going to be some time before I'm ready to tear it down to start blue printing it and putting my Shilen Select Match grade barrel on it.

 

[Way2slow]

I must say, I am more than a bit disappointed in where the quality of Remington rifles has gone.  This is the first new Remington I've bought in probably 40 years and it's nothing like the older models I have always bought in the past.  I usually buy an older Remington from pawn shops or used gun dealers for my builds but haven't found any suitable so I bought this new one.  Basically one level above being junk as it comes out of the box.  Very cheap built and very poor machining.  Granted, this was one of their cheaper model 700's but it used to be a 700 action was the same, but  I guess not now.  I would hate to know I paid $1,000 for one and got this kind of machine work, just looked prettier.  

I can still use it, and when done it will be just a good as any of them but the initial quality of this one sucks.

[fishballer06]

I suppose some of the newer 700's are worse than the others. This winter I bought a stainless ADL 243 on clearance from Dicks whenever they were completely getting out of the gun business. 

 

I put a new wood CDL stock on it, the magazine conversion kit, and a Timney trigger in it. Needless to say, she's a tack driver, even with cheap Core Locks. 

 

[Way2slow]

That's a nice group for a deer.   I shot this one late yesterday doing a little breaking in on the barrel and zeroing the scope.  After I had 10 rounds, cleaning after each, I shot one three shot group at 100 yards, double checking the scope zero and it shot about a 3/4" group, which would make "most" people happy.  At least after those three, there was very little copper fouling, so a little more break-in will probably help that, plus I have also lapped the barrel some.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Remington's.  Between shot guns and rifles I've got a couple dozen, literally.  Since I do my own customizing and blue printing/accurizing, I've just haven't bought any of their new guns in many years.  I've always liked the triggers in the earlier models but since I've been looking for a few months now, and haven't found one, I was at Bass Pro Shops and saw this  one on clearance at a price I couldn't turn down.  Plus I've always wanted to check out their X-Pro trigger since it's supposed to be a very nice trigger once it has been gone through, and this one has that.

It's just like everything else, since most everything now is made in China, with such poor quality, I guess what few American companies that are still making their own here in the US, has to cut every corner they can to compete in the lower end of the market, and they definitely cut a lot of corners producing this one.

I've just drilled the stock for the pillars and in the process of pillar bedding it.  I lapped the lugs on the receiver some but can't get enough for both to seat.  The head space was already at .003" out of the box and I'm at .004" now so that's something that will have to wait until I blue print it.

Yea, this is all sort of wasted effort but I've always like take so, so shooters and make them shoot bug holes.  Right now my build is on hold until after this virus stuff, so I'm just playing.

 

 

[fishballer06]

21 minutes ago, Way2slow said:

That's a nice group for a deer.   I shot this one late yesterday doing a little breaking in on the barrel and zeroing the scope.  After I had 10 rounds, cleaning after each, I shot one three shot group at 100 yards, double checking the scope zero and it shot about a 3/4" group, which would make "most" people happy.  At least after those three, there was very little copper fouling, so a little more break-in will probably help that, plus I have also lapped the barrel some.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Remington's.  Between shot guns and rifles I've got a couple dozen, literally.  Since I do my own customizing and blue printing/accurizing, I've just haven't bought any of their new guns in many years.  I've always liked the triggers in the earlier models but since I've been looking for a few months now, and haven't found one, I was at Bass Pro Shops and saw this  one on clearance at a price I couldn't turn down.  Plus I've always wanted to check out their X-Pro trigger since it's supposed to be a very nice trigger once it has been gone through, and this one has that.

I've bought two new 700's in the past six months, both were cheaper ADL's, for basically the sole purpose up upgrading into a better rifle like you are doing. Both of them have the new X-Pro trigger. However, both of them had factory pulls around 6 to 6.5 pounds and they aren't externally adjustable. So in my eyes, if I'm taking the action screws off to adjust a trigger, I'd rather just slap a nice Timney on there and call it good. Now both of them have Timney's with a 2-2.25 pound pull. 

 

Now I have an older Classic that dates to 1982 according the serial, and that factory trigger breaks at 3-3.25 pounds and feels very nice on the pull. Certainly a better trigger in my eyes than what the two ADL's I bought were from the factory with the X-Pro. 

[Way2slow]

Yep, when they say non adjustable, they mean to the average user.  Just means they didn't put the external allen screw in the trigger.  The first thing I did was pull the action out, remove the magazine box, clean the epoxy out and adjusted it to a 2 1/2 pound pull, but it's doesn't have the fell I like.  I will eventually disassemble it and do the same magic on it I do on all my Remington triggers.

When I said I like the earlier triggers, I'm talking the late 60's to mid 70's.

When they had to start paying all those law suits, that ruined their triggers for a long time but supposedly they got it right with the X-Pro.  Guess I will find out when I finally decide to tear this one down.

The fun part was, when I took the 700 to shoot, I also took a 270 I've about finished.  I had changed the scope to the one I plan on using on it, but haven't changed the trigger spring back to a "more normal pull" and it has about a four ounce pull.  Going back and fourth between a trigger you only have think about squeezing and one with a 2 1/2# pull makes for some interesting shooting.

That 270 on it's worse day shoots 0.6", five shot groups @ 100 yards and consistently shoots in the 3/8" range, and every now and then will shoot one ragged hole.  That's shooting 140gr Berger VLD Hunting bullets and 3,035 FPS average.

[fishballer06]

17 hours ago, Way2slow said:

That 270 on it's worse day shoots 0.6", five shot groups @ 100 yards and consistently shoots in the 3/8" range, and every now and then will shoot one ragged hole.  That's shooting 140gr Berger VLD Hunting bullets and 3,035 FPS average.

 

Funny you mention that. I have a 270WSM that loves those 140g Berger's as well. 

[Way2slow]

Well, I've talked so bad about it, I guess I should show how it shoots after the work I've done.  This was just trying some IMR4350 powder I'm having pressure problems with in that 270, so I loaded up three 129gr Hornady bullets with 42 grains of it in the 700, Creedmoor to see what it would do in it.   Shooting off the top of the tool box on my truck using the bye pod @ 100 yards I guess it did ok.

 

[Way2slow]

OK, been a couple of days and several more load test and it has a problem with flyers.  Not real sure flyers is the proper term because they are not that far off, but enough to bug the stew out of me, trying to find the cause.

It will place bullets a few bullets touching, then it will throw a shot or two 1/2" away.  Similar to what it did on the target posted but twice the distance, and it does this fairly often.  You would be hard pressed to get a touching five shot group out of it.  It might shoot a 1/4" three shot group but it will usually send one or two out a 1/2" on a five shot group.

I'm still shooting it with the factory polymer stock, even though I have pillar post bedded it and free floated the barrel, it might be doing strange stuff.  I've never messed with one the tinker toy stocks and there's not much to it.  I started to order a V-Block for it, but that would be throwing $150 away since I have no intentions on keeping this one.  It could also be the crown.  The last inch of this barrel ain't that pretty when looking at it from the inside.  If it gets to bugging me enough, I will cut an inch off and re-crown it just to see what that does.

It could also just be the stresses in this factory barrel as it warm up.

Naturally, if a rifle shoots 0.6" five shot groups one would normally be thinking great, and that may be as good as it gets, but I'm still tweeking on it.

 

[Throwafrog]

I thought this was a fishing forum?

[Way2slow]

Every time I look in the Browse, the heading for where this toping is posted says "Gun Forum".

Some of us know a little more about things than just fishing and this site is setup to let us discuss other things than just "fishing".  

If you look, you will see a Hunting Forum and all kinds of forums for the discussion of topics that have nothing to do with fishing.

 

[Way2slow]

It's been a while and I guess I should clear up a couple thing about the 6.5CM I bought at BPS. 

The other post you see about 500yds with 6.5CM is not really the rifle this posted started with. 

I bought the one at BPS for a doner rifle to build me a 6.5CM.  The fact it was one off the shelf just happen to be because that was the cheapest one they had (on clearance), I was just wanting a short action

Now, what started off as and off the shelf 6.5CM is all in parts and pieces.  The barrel was replaced with a ungodly heavy varmint match grade SS barrel.  In the process of putting the barrel back on the action after fully blue printing it, a dumb mistake on my part made me have to buy a new receiver, so I got a SS and had to do all the blue printing on it.

The barrel was too heavy for the stock  so I have to buy another stock. 

The bolt was replaced with one custom fitted to the action from PT&G that's fluted in a diamond pattern and threaded bolt handle.  The trigger has been swapped out for one that has been fully polished, different springs and set to a very crisp 2# pull.

So, what it boils down to, the only thing that's left in this rifle I bought from BPS is the two pins holding the trigger in and the two bolts holding the action in.

When I bought the new SS receiver, I found a steal of a deal on a new blued receiver also.  Get me some action screws and 1/8" drill rod and make pins and it can be put back together again.

[Way2slow]

I was reading one of the post talking about swapping the Remington X Mark Pro trigger for a Timney   I have three rifles with Timney triggers in them, but they are not Remington's, and yes they are nice if you don't mind spending an additional $200 plus for a trigger in a $400 rifle.  However after I finished the Remington trigger, I'll put it up against a $200 Timney any time. 

I have two of the X Mark Pro triggers and both on a very clean crisp 2 pound pull and have taken one down to an eight ounce pull just to see how it would do.  Could not make it fire without pulling the trigger, slamming the bolt home or hitting the rifle but took it back to two pounds.   These are both without the external adjustable trigger

I polished the sear, trigger, and trigger pin to a mirror finish with.  The factory spring  is .250" long and about six turns of .026 - .027 wire.   I made one the same length but with five turns of .020" wire.  It was about perfect.  It let me adjust it so there was some compression and still give me two pounds of pull.  I'm not a fan of cutting coils out, that's dangerous, so I make my own springs.

One word of caution to anyone that wants to try adjusting their own.  Both of mine are the post recall triggers without external adjustment that Remington put the dot on the bolt release and they did not intend for anyone to mess with them.  The set screw holding the trigger spring is just filled and can be cleaned out and adjusted.  The ones holding the sear adjustment and the trigger travel, have a ton of thread locker on them and no way you are going to turn them without a lot of heat.  When you finally get them hot enough to melt the thread locker, probably close to 300f, they screw out no problem.  Without heat, you are just going to break the sockets in the allen screws if you try turning them.

Now, I've been modifying my own triggers for over 50 years so I have a little experience with them, but I would strongly suggest the novice shooter not to try messing with the sear adjustment or travel adjustment, that's why they locktite the crap out of them.

I will also mention, Remington does a poor job on timing the safety sear that hold the firing pin back and the bolt notch.  In most they are up to 1/8" off and why you get that double click when you start closing the bolt and the bolt is hard to close.  The first click is the firing pin coming out of the little notch in the bolt, the second is the sear holding the firing pin back as the lugs are pulling the bolt forward as you close the bolt.  If the timing is right, the second click should not be there, you just roll the handle all the way down with no more than just the spring tension for resistance.  They don't close as smooth as a Seiko but the close a heck of a lot better than out of the box.  I have had to take almost 1/8" off the back of the sear that holds the firing pin back on both of these triggers to get a smooth bolt closure.