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Posted

Why do some reels have 9+1 ball bearings and some have 4+1 and so forth? I ask because my most recent purchases (Revo SX’s) both have 9+1 bearing system and I have been eyeballing the Shimano SLX DC which has only 4+1 bearing system. I read an article online that said “more bearings the better” versus the other way around. 

Posted

More is not always better.  Some companies put 2 bearings in each reel handle which adds 4 bearings to the reel with no performance upgrade from properly fitted bushings.  

 

The ones that matter the most and where Shimano will have quality bearings is the spool shaft and the drive train which is essential when a load(fish) is on the reel.  The others are more for smoothness but a good bushing is still better than an average bearing.

 

Generally a spool shaft will have 2 in a 200 and smaller sized reel.  The drive train will add 2 more with the +1 being the roller bearing with the infinite anti reverse.

 

Where additional bearings can be added are the worm gear(2) and the reel knobs(4).

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Posted

 

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Posted

I pulled up the slx schematic and circled the bearings in red, the roller bearing in orange and circled bushings and areas where bearings could be added in blue.

20200505_102035_compress82.jpg

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  • Super User
Posted

As Jedi said, sometimes more bearings is misleading.

 

Case in point - Diawa Fuego CT vs Tatula CT

Tatula advertises 2 more bearings than the Fuego - but as he noted, they're in the handle knobs, so functionally there's not really an increase. What it boils down to is the Tatula CT is a Fuego CT with the T-Wing rather than a standard aperture...that's it...otherwise they're identical - even use the same spool.

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Posted

Ok guys I appreciate the clarity in this as I was confused on whether or not more was actually better or unnecessary.

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Posted

A low quality bearing will often feel worse than a good bushing as well. Nothing drives me nuts more than a noisy grinding knob bearing. 

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Posted

In high count reels, 4 of the bearings are in the knobs.  It's not always necessary, or ideal to have knob bearings.  Really depends on what you like and how you're using the reel.  

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Posted

Which is why I have always liked Shimano.  They have had great performance with fewer bearings. In many of their reels before the Xship bearing was added, 4+1 was pretty standard.   I don't have e a Shimano reel with two bearings on the worm gear and can't say I ever wanted them.

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Posted

As mentioned, the quality of the bearings is more important than the number of bearings. The major brands usually use pretty decent bearings.

Beware of the cheap knockoff reels with 15 bearings. They will be crap.

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Posted

The bearings situation makes more sense now and I can see how advertising more bearings in a reel could seem attractive to some one like myself who didn’t know any better.

Posted

They often count the AR bearing which is technically a clutch but still supports the main shaft while cranking. Obviously two good bearings to support the spool and allows smooth casting and retrieve. A support bearing at the base of the pinion is next import and better yet a second at the top. A bearing at the base of the main shaft is preferable over a bushing and again, a second at the top is a good feature. Next would be bearings at one or each end of the level wind worm gear. Some folks consider this a must have but in my mind is not a deal breaker. Lastly two or four bearings in the handle are total preference. 

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Posted

Technically, anything that supports something else is a bearing.  Just because it isn't a "ball bearing pack" doesn't mean it's not supported.  A bushing can serve the purpose just as well.  This is where tight tolerances and quality materials comes in.  Case in point, worm gear support.  Since this is not a high torque or stress area, ball bearings aren't necessary, and excluding them may add to a smoother feel, and reduce weight.  I do not recall any bush in a worm drive wearing out.  Have you, Mike @Delaware Valley Tackle?  As a person fascinated with reel maintenance, I do find a TON of novelty in ball bearing supported worm drives, especially when used in the oscillation of a spinning reel.  So there's a tech part I think is pretty cool.

 

Sorry for straying of topic, but the bearing discussion is always pretty interesting, when you dig into it.

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Posted
15 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Technically, anything that supports something else is a bearing.  Just because it isn't a "ball bearing pack" doesn't mean it's not supported.  A bushing can serve the purpose just as well.  This is where tight tolerances and quality materials comes in.  Case in point, worm gear support.  Since this is not a high torque or stress area, ball bearings aren't necessary, and excluding them may add to a smoother feel, and reduce weight.  I do not recall any bush in a worm drive wearing out.  Have you, Mike @Delaware Valley Tackle?  As a person fascinated with reel maintenance, I do find a TON of novelty in ball bearing supported worm drives, especially when used in the oscillation of a spinning reel.  So there's a tech part I think is pretty cool.

 

Sorry for straying of topic, but the bearing discussion is always pretty interesting, when you dig into it.

J Francho, when I first started using Shimano spinning reels years ago, I always noticed how smooth they were, even with less bearings than others. I've had cheaper Siennas, Sedonas, and now a newer Sahara. None have more than 5 bearings, but still work very well. Since then I don't worry too much about bearing count when I look at reels, at least not with Shimanos.

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Posted
3 hours ago, J Francho said:

Technically, anything that supports something else is a bearing.  Just because it isn't a "ball bearing pack" doesn't mean it's not supported.  A bushing can serve the purpose just as well.  This is where tight tolerances and quality materials comes in.  Case in point, worm gear support.  Since this is not a high torque or stress area, ball bearings aren't necessary, and excluding them may add to a smoother feel, and reduce weight.  I do not recall any bush in a worm drive wearing out.  Have you, Mike @Delaware Valley Tackle?  As a person fascinated with reel maintenance, I do find a TON of novelty in ball bearing supported worm drives, especially when used in the oscillation of a spinning reel.  So there's a tech part I think is pretty cool.

 

Sorry for straying of topic, but the bearing discussion is always pretty interesting, when you dig into it.

Unless they’ve corroded from neglect I’ve never seen a worm bearing fail. I couldn’t agree more with your premise regarding bushings. The Core is my all time favorite reel with minimal bearing count. Super smooth , light and great casting. 

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  • 1 month later...
Posted
On 5/6/2020 at 10:01 AM, J Francho said:

I do not recall any bush in a worm drive wearing out.  Have you, Mike @Delaware Valley Tackle?  As a person fascinated with reel maintenance, I do find a TON of novelty in ball bearing supported worm drives, especially when used in the oscillation of a spinning reel.  So there's a tech part I think is pretty cool.

 

On 5/6/2020 at 1:26 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Unless they’ve corroded from neglect I’ve never seen a worm bearing fail. I couldn’t agree more with your premise regarding bushings. The Core is my all time favorite reel with minimal bearing count. Super smooth , light and great casting. 

 

I just replaced the one bearing in my old Penn 716Z ultralight spinning reel.  So are there new(er) model spinning reels using worm drive systems that require fewer bearings (not counting possible bearings in the handle knob or AR)?

 

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Posted

We're talking about the levelwind on baitcast reels.  Modern spinning reels use a crown and pinion drive system.  My dad has a very old (from the 70s) D.A.M. Quick reel with a true worm drive.  Some higher end spinning reels use a worm gear to generate spool oscillation.  I have a Shimano Stradic that is well over a decade old, never had anything replaced, and has 5 bearings total.

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Posted
3 hours ago, J Francho said:

We're talking about the levelwind on baitcast reels.  Modern spinning reels use a crown and pinion drive system.  My dad has a very old (from the 70s) D.A.M. Quick reel with a true worm drive.  Some higher end spinning reels use a worm gear to generate spool oscillation.  I have a Shimano Stradic that is well over a decade old, never had anything replaced, and has 5 bearings total.

The worm oscillator and self contained AR clutch are Stradic selling points for me

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Posted
On 5/5/2020 at 10:04 AM, JediAmoeba said:

Shimano will have quality bearings is the spool shaft and the drive train which is essential when a load(fish) is on the reel.  

 

Or tree branch ?

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