Marketing/Hype vs Science/Common Sense

[Armtx77]

Yeah, I don't get 7+ and up, final drive ratios. You are losing torque and giving up longevity, to get that level of line pick up.

[soflabasser]

A snook or redfish is pound for pound much more powerful than any black bass so any decent inshore combo you use should be able to handle any bass that bites in open water. The problem is bass like to live near heavy aquatic vegetation and structure that can easily abrade 30 pound test braid. You have to be careful when fighting a bass and not let it use its surroundings to its advantage. A lot of times a heavy action rod, a strong reel, and strong braid can help you pull a big bass away from heavy aquatic vegetation or structure so it is worth having a decent heavy action combo.

8 hours ago, A-Jay said:

While reels keep getting faster and rods keep getting longer, I never understood why.

I tried fast reels (over 7:1) lost fish.  All but abandon their use except for a few specific applications.  Other than a longer cast, an over sized stick does not suit my style. A 7 ft blank is 'long' for me.  If a deal doesn't address or correct a problem,  I move on.

YMMV

A-Jay 

Most of my bass rods are between 6-7 feet long and that is more than enough. 

7 hours ago, Mobasser said:

I say fish what works best for you, with your style. To heck with the rest of it.

If a person is catching quality fish on a consistent basis then they know what they are doing and it does not matter what people think of their gear. For example I have lost count of the big bass I have caught on Ugly Stik rods and spinning reels so I could care less what gear snobs think of my fishing gear. 

[Tywithay]

1 hour ago, Grim_Reaver said:

 

 

I agree with the management part but the abrasion resistance makes me skeptical. If the the two different sizes of braid are made from the same material, how is there a difference in abrasion resistance? 

Thickness of material. Same reason a 3" diameter branch is stronger than a twig, even though they're both wood. 

[Grim_Reaver]

9 hours ago, Tywithay said:

Thickness of material

Well that's wood, which is solid and rigid. Braid is more akin to a fabric in that it is soft and pliable. You can increase the thickness of a fabric in a garment like a shirt and it will still get abraded and cut just as easy as a thinner shirt of the same material. Just like if you take scissors to your braided line, there is no difference in difficultly when cutting 30lb vs 65lb.

[Maxximus Redneckus]

I have 3.8 and i bought a 8.0 reel at a great price .anyhow i dont use my gear ratio  to pull the fish in any how i still do it the same as i was taught  when i was younger the rod does the work the reel picks up the slack line nkn moving reel at this point the drag is doin its job..more so in a spinning Reel 

[Grim_Reaver]

9 hours ago, soflabasser said:

The problem is bass like to live near heavy aquatic vegetation and structure that can easily abrade 30 pound test braid.

Snook and redfish do the same thing down here in Florida where they'll bury you up in something like mangrove roots or a boat dock. I'm specifically talking about fishing grass because wood or rock is easily gonna abrade braid of any size, which is why you would use a leader when in an area with those factors. No need for gigantic line. When fishing grass which causes much less abrasion, you would want a smaller diameter that can saw through the vegetation easier so why use 65lb. Seth Feider made a point about this in a recent *** video when he mentioned why he uses 30lb for frogging and flipping.

[JediAmoeba]

I have never had a reel lock up on me because of the gear ratio.  

[BobP]

Reel manufacturers build higher ratio reels because gear design and precision manufacturing let them.  The gear set of a 2000 Shimano Curado is archaic compared to the same reel a decade later.  I think the design of a larger main gear with smaller precision cut teeth is the basic change that allows reels to maintain a reasonable level of cranking power at higher ratios.  Build it and they (the few who actually need it and the horde of yahoos who don’t) will come.  As far as rod length goes, I grew up with 6 1/2 and 7 ft rods, maxing out at 7 1/2 ft for flipping.  I can usually build a rod of those lengths that will balance with no tip heaviness, so I’m sticking with them.  They are inherently more accurate than longer rods and that’s important to me.

[Hulkster]

i like the trend of longer rods, my two main rods are now 7'6 and 7'5 and i really love fishing with them. 

 

but i don't like the trend towards super fast lower power reels and tend not to like the trend towards really small baitcasting reels with small spools. 

 

 

[joker]

I can see where the Gman is coming from. However it doesn't sound like he quite understands reel torque. The gear ratio is only one part of the equation as far a torque goes. You would have to also take into account handle length and spool size. He said he is a 6.8:1 guy and seldom uses a 7.3:1. Guess what? A Daiwa tatula SV TW with 7.3:1 gear @29.4" IPT and a 90mm handle has slightly more torque than a Lews lite speed lfs with 6.8:1 gear @ 28" IPT and a 85mm handle.

[Tywithay]

7 hours ago, Grim_Reaver said:

Well that's wood, which is solid and rigid. Braid is more akin to a fabric in that it is soft and pliable. You can increase the thickness of a fabric in a garment like a shirt and it will still get abraded and cut just as easy as a thinner shirt of the same material. Just like if you take scissors to your braided line, there is no difference in difficultly when cutting 30lb vs 65lb.

It'd take longer to rub a hole in a sweatshirt than a dri-fit. I think maybe "resistance" isn't the right word. It is abraded at the same rate, just takes longer to saw through thicker material. A fish you'd lose on 20lb might end up in the boat with 50lb, I guess. 

[soflabasser]

8 hours ago, Grim_Reaver said:

I'm specifically talking about fishing grass because wood or rock is easily gonna abrade braid of any size, which is why you would use a leader when in an area with those factors. No need for gigantic line. When fishing grass which causes much less abrasion, you would want a smaller diameter that can saw through the vegetation easier so why use 65lb. Seth Feider made a point about this in a recent video when he mentioned why he uses 30lb for frogging and flipping.

30 pound test braid can be abraded by rubbing on a concrete pilling, rocks, sawgrass leaves in the water, and other things the line can touch while the bass is fighting. I also use 30 pound test braid for frog fishing but there are times I have to use heavier braid or fish a different technique since some of the places I fish has very heavy aquatic vegetation. 

[FishTank]

Marketing hype with fishing equipment.... are you kidding me?  It's all marketing with extra hype and we probably all fall victim for it to a certain extent. 

 

I know I get excited to try out new fishing gear and it's only second to actually catching fish> keeps the bait monkey in check.

 

As far as rod length and gear ratios go.  I don't get caught up in it.  I fish what feels good to me.  I think longer rods are fun to fish because they bring unique challenges when setting the hook.  Ever caught a tarpon on a 9' 10 power fly rod? It's nirvana.  Most of my rods are 7' and my favorite is 6'6''.  In reels as a general rule though, I like 5.x:1 reels for cranks, 6.x:1 for soft plastic, and 7.x:1 reels for topwater and jerkbaits.  I think the days of torque issues and gear ratios with reels is just about over. 

[Bankbeater]

My 7x reel comes in handy when I’ve worked out a backlash and I’ve got line all over the boat. All of my other reels are 6x speed. 

[HenryPF]

On long rods - I fish with mostly 7' rods to bomb lures if I have to. Have a crap hookset? 7' can make up for it over 6'.

 

High ratio reels - great for picking up a massive amount of line, but not for torquing in fish. Reels used for flipping? yeah, you are ripping the fish outta the weeds, not fighting it.

 

It all comes down to convenience, you literally have 10 rods on the deck designed for a specific presentation with reels to match. Cranking slow on a 7:3 reel feels boring, cracking fast on a 5:1 feels like I am just goofing off.

[Ogandrews]

While I will agree that the higher ratio you go generally you will have less torque, but in the end you are still fishing for bass not tuna. Yes, bass getting into heavy cover makes them much harder to fight, but modern reels are built in a way to give you enough torque in a 7 or 8. One of the biggest benefits to a fast reel in my opinion is picking up slack line, or bringing in baits when your flipping or jig fishing. Take fishing a jerkbait, you shouldn’t be moving the bait with your reel. After a couple jerks you pick up the slack, with a fast reel that is one handle turn or so. I’m not saying you can’t do it on a slow reel, it is just easier with a faster one. When it comes to flipping or worming or jig fishing majority of the casts your not going to get bit, and your most likely fishing more of a specific spot as opposed to working the thing completely back to the boat. In that situation I would way rather get the bait back to the boat sooner and not have to spend as much effort turning the handle. When it comes to fighting fish around cover, majority of the time you will get the fish moving towards you with your rod and hopefully keep them coming with the reel. This is where a longer rod has a big advantage in my opinion. A longer rod gives you a better hook set, which undoubtedly is a huge factor  in successfully landing a fish. I fish longer rods than most people for every single tactic I use besides jerkbaits because I enjoy the feel of a long rod and am able to control the fish better. I am definitely more accurate with a longer rod as well, but that could also just be that I am more comfortable with them. In musky fishing the normal length of a rod is 8’6-9’6” with some going longer than that. Musky are a way harder fighting fish than bass and also hang out in very heavy weed growth. These longer rods give you better control over the fish by being able to better control where their head is going as well as increasing your hooksetting power and really increase your hookup to land ratio. Back in the day musky guys used to use 5-6ft rods that were like pool cues, and now everything has transitioned to longer rods because they just overall perform better.I could talk about my preference for a longer rod all day but it really comes down to personal preference. I really like Gerald swindle but he’s not exactly the best guy when it comes to technical advice. He preaches about how floro has zero stretch when that couldn’t be further from the truth. Not bashing the guy as he is an amazing fisherman, just pointing out the fact that not everything that comes out of his mouth is gospel.

[Mobasser]

As long as bass fishing continues to keep getting more technical, there will always be people pushing they're own version of it. Longer rods and very fast reels are just one more aspect of this. After you fish for a long time, you realize that these things may not work for you. Most very experienced fisherman are not always quick to jump on the latest thing. They've learned through experience what works best for them. They have confidence in they're own tackle choices, and catch more fish in the process. Longer rods, and super fast reels are the trend now, but they may not be best for everyone. I say fish what works best for your style of fishing. If a 5ft rod works the best for you, so be it. You'll be happier in the long run, and catching more fish too. That's common sense. And I think it beats marketing hype anyday.

[CrankFate]

I mainly use 7 speed BC reels. I don’t flip and don’t fish mats, frogs or cover. But I know what he means about high speed reels and vertical situations in cover. They slip far below the pounds rating on the drag in those situations.

[Tony johnson]

On 5/3/2020 at 5:16 PM, Grim_Reaver said:

Tuna primarily live in open water and therefore there is more time to play the fish without it running into something. Try wrenching a grouper away from a wreck with a long rod and see how fast he'll break you off because you don't have enough leverage to muscle him out of it. That would be more analogous to the techniques I mentioned.

 

 

Out here on the west coast fishing yellowtail in the rocks still using 7ft 6inch plus rods is way easier then old 5ft rods... all the new big ocean rods actually give you leverage over the fish cause the way they are designed.. its all about where the rod bends and loads up... also sometimes you are fishing tuna by islands loaded with great whites so your trying to boat a 100lb plus fish in 5 to 10 mins

[NOC 1]

Ten feet under water or so all colors tend to mute to shades. Sort of like watching old black and white movies. Red, Green, Blue are all just shades of grey. All those colors become simply patterns. However fishermen definitely see color and I suspect that it is they that have a larger preference for certain colors.

 

As for the rest of it it's a mystery to me. I have some long rods for special purposes, but all of my regular casting and spinning rods are 5'10 to a 7'1" . Most are 6'6" and 6'8". I don't give a fiddle for anything longer no matter what the fashion is.

 

I have somewhere around 20-25 BC reels and they are all 5.x or 6.x except for one 7.x and one 8.x. The 8.x I pretty much just use for vertical jigging in 30'+ water where hauling it up faster is a good thing.

 

I use mostly STEEZ, TD-Z and PX68 reels and have never seen a reason to trade them in on anything faster. They are great reels and a lot faster than the 5500 ABUs that I upgraded from.

[Ogandrews]

One thing I would like to say is that there is a huge amount of hype and misinformation about floro. Now I am more so speaking from a braid to leader aspect as opposed to straight line. Whenever anyone talks about braid to a leader they automatically assume that you need to use floro as the leader when in reality mono or coply makes a way better leader. Mono holds knots much better than floro, is just as or more abrasion resistant, has better shock resistance, and gives a little more stretch which helps with braid. Yes floro is a tiny bit less visible than mono but in 99% of situations that will not make a difference, only if your in the clearest lakes in the country. Tackle companies and pros push floro so much because they are trying to sell it. If you are using it as a mainline I get it because mono is so stretchy but as a leader floro is completely overrated.

[GreenPig]

Gear ratios and rod length weren't an option when I  bought my combos. But I've got Spiderwire. I think. 

[Manifestgtr]

18 hours ago, Ogandrews said:

One thing I would like to say is that there is a huge amount of hype and misinformation about floro. Now I am more so speaking from a braid to leader aspect as opposed to straight line. Whenever anyone talks about braid to a leader they automatically assume that you need to use floro as the leader when in reality mono or coply makes a way better leader. Mono holds knots much better than floro, is just as or more abrasion resistant, has better shock resistance, and gives a little more stretch which helps with braid. Yes floro is a tiny bit less visible than mono but in 99% of situations that will not make a difference, only if your in the clearest lakes in the country. Tackle companies and pros push floro so much because they are trying to sell it. If you are using it as a mainline I get it because mono is so stretchy but as a leader floro is completely overrated.

I tend to agree with this. Fishermen have really, really bought into fluorocarbon for whatever reason. Enough guys use it successfully that it’s obviously effective but the few times I’ve given it an honest try, I could never justify its superiority over mono...especially as leader material. And I’m also a trout fisherman, btw...so I’m welllll aware of spooky, wild fish in tight quarters.

 

I’m sure there are pros out there who could really lay it on the line and say “I NEED fluoro to get such and such crank to such and such level” but that’s just never been practical for me. 
 

I think it’s also because I never really deal with ultra-clear, still water bass fishing situations...that’s the one application where I could see going light braid to long, light fluoro. 

[Chris186]

14 hours ago, Manifestgtr said:

I tend to agree with this. Fishermen have really, really bought into fluorocarbon for whatever reason. Enough guys use it successfully that it’s obviously effective but the few times I’ve given it an honest try, I could never justify its superiority over mono...especially as leader material. And I’m also a trout fisherman, btw...so I’m welllll aware of spooky, wild fish in tight quarters.

 

I’m sure there are pros out there who could really lay it on the line and say “I NEED fluoro to get such and such crank to such and such level” but that’s just never been practical for me. 
 

I think it’s also because I never really deal with ultra-clear, still water bass fishing situations...that’s the one application where I could see going light braid to long, light fluoro. 

I use fluoro for a few reasons. A few of the lakes here are surprisingly gin clear, it sinks which will help in certain situations, and I feel as if it has better abrasion resistance than mono for the numerous lakes with rock around here. Also it doesn’t stretch like mono for certain baits but it has more stretch than braid. I also feel it is more sensitive for bottom contact than mono. Of course this is just how I feel about it and confidence is a big thing right? That being said, when I run out of what I have I’m going to try going all mono again and see if I notice a difference. I currently have mono on two cranking rods and honestly I’m not noticing anything different. Fluoro isn’t cheap either.

[Manifestgtr]

1 hour ago, Chris186 said:

I use fluoro for a few reasons. A few of the lakes here are surprisingly gin clear, it sinks which will help in certain situations, and I feel as if it has better abrasion resistance than mono for the numerous lakes with rock around here. Also it doesn’t stretch like mono for certain baits but it has more stretch than braid. I also feel it is more sensitive for bottom contact than mono. Of course this is just how I feel about it and confidence is a big thing right? That being said, when I run out of what I have I’m going to try going all mono again and see if I notice a difference. I currently have mono on two cranking rods and honestly I’m not noticing anything different. Fluoro isn’t cheap either.

I hear you, man. You’re lucky to have gin clear lakes around haha

 

in order to find anything like that around here, I have to drive up into the mountains of New Hampshire or down to the cape (which has some KILLER smallmouth/trout ponds if you know where to go).

 

When I think of gin clear water, I think of a trip I took to lake placid back in the 90s. My brother lost a rod and we actually found it the next morning, clear as day 20 feet down...the rod and a smallmouth on the end of the line. It was unbelievable