Marketing/Hype vs Science/Common Sense

[Grim_Reaver]

 

This video has me thinking. Are we suckers for marketing/hype? If close quarters fishing (skipping, flipping/pitching, punching, etc) requires a stout rod with lot's of leverage and reel with lot's of torque, why is the trend towards long rods/high speed reels producing the opposite affect? If we need to cut through vegetation with braid, why use heavier lb test (larger diameter) braids which are less efficient at cutting than lighter lb test (smaller diameter) braids? If we need to put less pressure on a fish using finesse tackle, why use shorter rods (more leverage) that increase the pressure we are putting on the fish? If a largemouth can really only distinguish between greens, reds, whites, blacks, why are we buying so many rainbow colored baits?

 

A bass wrapped in vegetation will never be a able to break off braid if a much heavier and stronger fish like a snook or redfish can't.

A longer rod will never be able to balance as well or provide the same strength and leverage as a shorter rod built with the same materials.

A higher gear ratio will never be able to produce the same torque as a lower gear ratio.

A bass may not be able to see the different colors but I doubt differences in shading of the colors really matters to a fish with a brain the size of a pea that is just reacting to it's environment.

A bass can swim much faster than you ever will be able to reel (a 20" largemouth can swim up to 12mph in short bursts equating to 211.2 inches/second) so a high speed reel could only catch up to tiny bass who is topping out at 2mph (35.2 inches per second). 

[A-Jay]

While reels keep getting faster and rods keep getting longer, I never understood why.

I tried fast reels (over 7:1) lost fish.  All but abandon their use except for a few specific applications.  Other than a longer cast, an over sized stick does not suit my style. A 7 ft blank is 'long' for me.  If a deal doesn't address or correct a problem,  I move on.

YMMV

A-Jay 

[2tall79]

35 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

While reels keep getting faster and rods keep getting longer, I never understood why.

I tried fast reels (over 7:1) lost fish.  All but abandon their use except for a few specific applications.  Other than a longer cast, an over sized stick does not suit my style. A 7 ft blank is 'long' for me.  If a deal doesn't address or correct a problem,  I move on.

YMMV

A-Jay 

Yup,  most of my rods are under 6' and most of my  reels are 5.+/-:1.

[WRB]

Lot of assumptions being made.

We don't have a clue how bass see colors under low, bright or no light. We assume the fish eye that has cones and rods works like human eye and brain that can't function without light or added lens underwater. The fact is bass do react to different colors in the dark, we can't determine color without light.

Thicker braid has higher resistance to abrasion before it wears and weakens. Thinner line would cut easier but breaks easier.

Dee Thomas used 12' fiberglass rod for flipping, no reel. The longer rod allowed flipping a jig longer distance and strong enough to lift 8 lb+ bass straight up through heavy cover.

10' fly parabolic rods are common for big strong salmon. 

The Era of the 5' tuna rods is long gone, today tuna rods are over 7', more lifting power.

Hype is selling......tell me what industry doesn't over sell thier products.

Tom

[garroyo130]

We fish because we enjoy it. The reels, rods, and lures all represent just one more thing for us to continue to learn about and hope to master.

 

 If fishing were only about catching fish this would be me. 

 

 

[Mobasser]

I say fish what works best for you, with your style. To heck with the rest of it.

[Cgrinder]

Yeah more seven foot rods would be cool.

[Tywithay]

Fast reels are because people watched MLF pros skipping bass across the water and burning lures in to get 10 extra casts in a tournament. They aren't really necessary, but are convenient at times. A 6.x reel can accomplish anything that a normal bass angler would ever require. Guys that spend their free time talking about fishing are the minority though and we like shiny.

[Teal]

It seems like 6 or 7 years ago, 7;1 was a super high speed reel.  And 4.9 or 5 was the low end... now we are told that 7 is in the.middle and 8.5 is the top.. who knows... I'm still using Alot of my 6.3:1 reels and I dont really care for a rod longer than 7'6"  I dont have any answers.  I'm just sticking with I know works.  

[TritonUp]

I talked with a young salesman at BPS a couple of years ago and he was claiming 5:1 was "super slow", and 9:1 was the new norm for fast reels, and 7:1 was "average".   I told him I remember back in the 80's where Abu had 3.8:1 and 6:1 was considered "screaming fast".   I am sure the fish haven't changed... but went right over his head, lol.   I wish more reel models were offered in the 5:1 range.   

[Tywithay]

Should add, more efficient gearing has aided the additional speed as well. Years ago the faster reels severely lacked torque. Nowadays, the 8+ reels can handle crankbaits relatively easily, with a proper handle.

[The Maestro]

If you use hi-viz/yellow line make sure you color the last few feet of it with a black marker so the fish don't see it.

 

Also. Use a black jig/bait so the fish can see it better.

[OCdockskipper]

If a reel only has one gear, then the faster speeds will lack torque no matter what.  GMan is 100% correct in his evaluation, anyone who has worked on cars or bikes have experienced what he is talking about.

 

Torque is no issue on a slack line, you can get the reel up to speed and then pull any bait or fish in.  The moment you stop and then try to move something with resistance, the reel handle feels like it locks up, like trying to pedal a 10 speed in 10th gear from a standing stop.

[FrankN209]

2 hours ago, A-Jay said:

While reels keep getting faster and rods keep getting longer, I never understood why.

I tried fast reels (over 7:1) lost fish.  All but abandon their use except for a few specific applications.  Other than a longer cast, an over sized stick does not suit my style. A 7 ft blank is 'long' for me.  If a deal doesn't address or correct a problem,  I move on.

YMMV

A-Jay 

I agree. All of my rods are 7'. I won't go any longer. I would like to get a 6'8". I have 3 baitcasters, two are 6.3 and I have 1 7.0...

[PhishLI]

4 hours ago, Grim_Reaver said:

A bass wrapped in vegetation will never be a able to break off braid if a much heavier and stronger fish like a snook or redfish can't.

I've had, and witnessed, multiple fish break off 30lb braid in Lily pads. Never 40lb or above.

4 hours ago, Grim_Reaver said:

A longer rod will never be able to balance as well or provide the same strength and leverage as a shorter rod built with the same materials.

Maybe, but a 7'3" feels just right to me. That said I picked up a 6'7" MHF on sale from TW specifically for pitching from the bank. or casting when tree limbs are hanging low when walking a bank. Works just great for that, but I'm finding myself using this stick in circumstances other those two scenarios. I'm actually loving this rod. I barely lose any distance when it matters and my accuracy is just a bit better. The balance is better too. I'll be looking at others.

 

4 hours ago, Grim_Reaver said:

A higher gear ratio will never be able to produce the same torque as a lower gear ratio.

True, but I frog with an 8.0:1 Daiwa Fuego CT and have never had an issue with it locking up dragging fish through pad fields. Not even close.

[WRB]

Today's baitcasting reels are lighter and smaller then reels a decade ago.

With lighter comes smaller diameter and narrower spools that directly affects the yards of line the spool can hold. IPT is inches per turn of the reel handle, this is more important then gear ratio's. It's like comparing a 10 speed bike with 26" dia tires vs 12" dia tires, the 26" tire travels  82" , the 12" tire only 38", lot easier to get rolling.

If you are using a size 100 narrow spool reel with line capacity of 100 and cast 50 yards the gear ratio is the same but the IPT  (diameter of the tire)  dropped over 50%. To compensate for the loss in IPT reel gear ratio's increased from 6:1 to 8:1. To overcome higher torque the reels increased the handle width for more leverage.

My newer size 100 reels with 8:1 ratio are about equal to my older reels 6:1 at 40 yards, about 18" IPT, 31" IPT before casting, big difference.

Either use a bigger reel with larger dia and width spool or smaller lighter weight reel with higher gear ratio's. My crankbait and swimbait reels are 300 size 5:8.1 ratio with over 22" IPT at 40 yards and 26" IPT before casting, little difference.

Tom

[waymont]

I use 6, 7, and 8 speed reels. I love 8 speed reels for jig fishing when casting, I don't flip into heavy cover.

I have never noticed losing much power after setting the hook, when I start reeling the fish in.

I have noticed many times bass swimming towards me after picking up the jig, and I caught up to them and set the hook. When I had 6 speed reels I lost fish because of this. That dude is annoying in the video, everyone fishes differently.

My 8 32" IPT speed reel of choice is the Tatula SV TWS.

Also talking about speed of reels, without taking into consideration the IPT each reel has doesn't have much weight to it.

 

[Grim_Reaver]

27 minutes ago, waymont said:

Also talking about speed of reels, without taking into consideration the IPT each reel has doesn't have much weight to it.

I specifically mentioned inches per turn. If a bass is coming at you with a sudden burst of speed, it is impossible to catch up to them. A bass moving at 2.5 miles an hour could easily outrun even a 10:1. Even a smaller bass will move faster than that when attacking something.

[Grim_Reaver]

3 hours ago, PhishLI said:

7'3" feels just right to me

There's nothing wrong with using a rod that long. Anything much longer is really giving the fish more leverage to work agaisnt the average angler (say 5'9 to 6'0). I too fell in love with my 7'3 when I first got it, but after using my 7' rods more this year, it has started to collect some dust. I can report the same experiences. 

[Log Catcher]

I absolutely agree with with GMan and the video. My longest rod is 6'6" and my fastest reel is a 6:8:1 or about 28 IPT. I have hated reel manufacturers for a long time for dropping the slower speed reels for the high speeds. I still have some 3:8:1 reels. Some people believe if they have to turn the handle more than three times to bring the lure in the reel is too slow.

[Grim_Reaver]

5 hours ago, WRB said:

5' tuna rods is long gone, today tuna rods are over 7'

Tuna primarily live in open water and therefore there is more time to play the fish without it running into something. Try wrenching a grouper away from a wreck with a long rod and see how fast he'll break you off because you don't have enough leverage to muscle him out of it. That would be more analogous to the techniques I mentioned.

 

 

[MassYak85]

I use fast reels for presentations that require moving the bait with the rod and taking up slack with the reel. I like longer rods cause I myself am on the tall side, I can cast farther, and assuming the action is consistent with shorter rods you have more of the blank loading up to keep fish pinned. I like heavier braid because it manages better on a baitcaster and can hold up to more abrasion than thinner diameters. Everything has a purpose and a lot can come down to preference, it's up to the Angler to stay educated on the gear and make the decision based on their own fishing not what the pros are pushing. 

[waymont]

1 hour ago, Grim_Reaver said:

I specifically mentioned inches per turn. If a bass is coming at you with a sudden burst of speed, it is impossible to catch up to them. A bass moving at 2.5 miles an hour could easily outrun even a 10:1. Even a smaller bass will move faster than that when attacking something.

I was referring to the guy in the video not mentioning IPT. In my 35 years of bass fishing I've never had a bass run full speed at me with my jig in its mouth, mostly just swimming towards me at moderate speed. I not sure a bass is tactically going to swim directly at a fisherman at it's full speed after eating what it thinks is a nice meal.

[jbsoonerfan]

I have noticed he likes to talk down to his "audience" in a few videos of his I have watched. He was showing how to tie a knot in a video and made fun of people who pull too tight on the knot and who cut the tag ends short. He wasn't teaching about why or why not that should be done, but mocking people who do it. I just think it is part of his shtick. 

[Grim_Reaver]

51 minutes ago, MassYak85 said:

I like longer rods cause I myself am on the tall side,

This is perfectly sensible, I'm not specifically mentioning your case. I guy built like KVD can handle long rods with no problem.

 

53 minutes ago, MassYak85 said:

heavier braid because it manages better on a baitcaster and can hold up to more abrasion than thinner diameters

I agree with the management part but the abrasion resistance makes me skeptical. If the the two different sizes of braid are made from the same material, how is there a difference in abrasion resistance?