1987 Johnson 110 question, need help I'm a mechanical idiot!!!

[retiredbosn]

I have two problems with my engine currently, one is no spark the other is no water.  I have isolated the spark issue to a bad stator, it is putting out 120volts on one side and 75 on the other, supposed to be 150.  The coils will not kick in until the voltage is up near 150 volts.  The water issue I think is due to the water supply line being broken somewhere in the lower unit.  The water goes through the pump out and half way up the lower unit out the correct outlets, but it leaks around the gasket between the gear box and the upper part of the lower unit.  Is it possible for the water line to bust, it was leaking before winter set in and I'm getting around to getting it fixed.  Or is it just the seal being bad?  I will drain the fluid tomorrow and see what color the fluid in the gear box is, that will tell me if there is water in the gear box as well.  Any suggestions would be great.  Does anyone think this could be a busted head?

[memo43]

Well the good news is you found the spark problem.

Now as far as the water line.....

It is possible for the water line to bust, you mentioned that it leaked before winter. But how was it stored all fluids drained etc etc.

To see if the head gasket is blown check to see what color/consitency is the oil. If it is thick/milky then yes the head gasket blew an water mixed in with the oil. If not, then it just a matter of finding where the water line is broke/cracked.

hope this helped.

memo

[retiredbosn]

But how was it stored all fluids drained etc etc.

To see if the head gasket is blown check to see what color/consitency is the oil. If it is thick/milky then yes the head gasket blew an water mixed in with the oil. If not, then it just a matter of finding where the water line is broke/cracked.

hope this helped.

memo

The motor is a two cycle, so no engine oil to check for water. I will pull the covers and check the head tomorrow.  As far as the fluids, I forgot to drain the gear case, so the tranny fluid was stored in the lower unit.  As far as the rest drained, etc.

[NBR]

I hope you didn't use "tranny" fluid in your lower unit.

[retiredbosn]

No I used Marine 90weight stuff, I call it tranny fluid because of the color.  

[retiredbosn]

Just called the parts store and was told that Johnson stators just don't go bad.  When I described what was going on he was at a loss, but still adamant that it wasn't the stator.

[Way2slow]

I'm not going to say the stators don't go bad, but I seriously doubt you checked it properly.   To check the voltage, you need a peak voltmeter or an adapter for your standard voltmeter so it will read peak voltage, and I not talking about a meter that has peak hold, not the same thing.

Even if you try to do the resistance checks, you're not going to get the readings they say in the manual because they use a specific OMC meter and I've never had a fluke or any other meter that gives the reading the book says you should get even when checking known good coils.  

Also, as for the stator, their are only a couple of coils on it that affect ignition voltage.  I've seen more timer bases go bad that I have stators.  If I had to take a blind guess, I would suspect a powerpack before either of the other two.  I've also seen more than one power pack replaced simple because the something had the kill leads shorted to ground.  

Basically, what it boils down to, unless you have infinit wealth, buying ignition parts is a very expesive way to trouble shoot a problem.

For your water circulation problem,  it's very common for water to leak between the LU and midsection.  The easiest way to check and see if there's a problem about the water pump is to take the lower unit off and connect a hose directly to the copper tube that goes into the top of the pump.  While you have the LU off, install a new impeller if the rest of the pump is in good shape, or install a rebuild kit thinks look cracked and aged.

There is a copper tube between the top of the water pump and the exhaust adapter on the mid section.  It's slides into rubber grommets on both ends.  I've never seen anything go wrong with the tube or the grommet in the exhaust adapter.  I have seen the one on the water pump get damaged by people not getting it aligned properly before pushing the LU up on it.

[retiredbosn]

Wow thanks so much Way2slow. I have a friend who is a automotive mechanic and has all the correct meters and stuff. Reading the manual is like reading greek for me, I did call a repair shop today and after my friend has a crack at I will take it there unless we can fix it. FWIW I don't have spark on any cylinder, and two power packs.

[Way2slow]

Your automotive buddy is not going to have a peak voltmeter, he would never have a need for one.  If you know someone in an electronics lab, they might have one.  Their use is much more common in electronics than anything else.  A good O-scope can be used but then again, who do you know that has one and knows how to use one.  

The power packs have a black/yellow wire on terminal D in the four pin connnector .  Push that terminal out of the connector (either end) so it can't make connection when plugged together (push it out, if you try to pull it out it will most likely break the wire because it's very tight in there).  See if you have fire to the plug wires then.  If the motor happens to start, the ONLY way you can shut it off is to choke it down or start pulling plug wires off.  OMC motors generate all their own ignition voltage and those wires ground it out to cut it off.  Without them being connected, there is no way to ground them. Disconnecting the battery and any other wire will do nothing for you.

[Way2slow]

While I'm on here, I will try to explain your basic test with an ohm meter.  First check the charge coils.  All four of these are built into the timer base so it's easy to ohm out.  The timer base is a round dougnut looking thing around the crankshaft and has the aluminum arm mounted to it that your throttle linkage hooks to  Disconnect the five wire connector between power pack and the timer base.  This will be the cable that comes out with that aluminum arm.  holding one lead of your ohm meter on terminal E of the timer base and place the other test lead on each of the other terminals.  I think the book says you will get about 40 ohms on each terminal but I've seen 80 as long as they all check the same.  

Now connect the black common test lead on your meter to the aluminum arm of the timer base and read all five terminals and make sure none of them give a reading on the 2K scale.  

Next check your charge coil resistance.  This is a single coil on the stator and has a two pin connected between it and the power pack.  Disconnect the connector and check the two terminals on the coil end to 500 - 600 ohms.  Again, it may read 700 with your meter.

You would check the charge coil voltage by connecting the meter between terminals A and B in this connector but since you don't have a peak voltmeter, don't try the voltage checks because they would not be accurate, but usually the resistance test will come close to telling you if it's good or not.

[retiredbosn]

Thanks so much, I have checked and rechecked the ohm on the charge coil resistance I know it is good.  I will recheck everything tomorrow as long as the weather is still good,  Thanks again.

[retiredbosn]

The boat is in the shop, they called today and informed me that they THINK the power packs are bad. My question is if the boat overheated could that cause the packs to short or ground out? I would hate to pay the money to replace the packs and have them tell me it is something else. Any opinions?  FWIW the compression test was good so no cracked head.

[Way2slow]

That is where you're going to be at the mercy of the repair shop. If they don't keep a good used pack around, they are going to install new ones and HOPE that's the problem and they won't take them back off. If that doesn't do it, they are probably going to try a new stator/timer base, and say they are what took the power packs out so they had to replace everything. I've known a couple of people that have gone through this, and have the dealer say, the key switch was a going bad/acting up so we went ahead and replaced that for you while we had it, and the key switch was the only problem with the whole thing, and not bat and eye when they hand them their bill for $1,200

Like I said before, if I had to take a blind guess, it would be the power packs. That's the highest percentage failure on the ignition system. If I had it where I could check it, then I would first make sure the kill wires didn't have it shut down, thin the timer base and charge coils checked OK by meter.

In a shop's defense also, I've seen many components check good with a meter, but still kick your butt trouble shooting. There is no way a meter can load them the way the ignition system does so the only final test is to replace it and almost no shop will install an ignition/electrical part and then take it back off to put it back in inventory.

I would also suggest that if you don't know how to replace the water pump impeller, and it hasn't been replace and the past four years, you have them replace it while it's there.

As for the running hot, are you sure you ran it hot?  Usually one will stick the pistons and shut down when it gets hot and you have to let it sit for a little time to cool and it cranks back up and goes again so if that didn't happen, doubt you ran it hot.

[retiredbosn]

Thanks so much Way2slow, I called them today and had a productive conversation.  They had one power pak that they tried out, and that side fired, so we are assuming the other one is bad as well.  Long story short I have a very reasonable estimate and they are going to do the impeller, not to shabby for less than 500 bucks.

[Way2slow]

I guess in all my talking about fixing the problem I should have mentioned the main cause of blow power packs. First I will say, OMC power packs are not exactly the most reliable thing ever built and do just flat go bad on their own but most of the time it's messing around with the battery that gets them. Loose battery connections,  connecting/disconnecting the battery when the switch or something is on to cause and arc. Connecting/disconneting a battery charger, or connecting/disconnecting jumper cables that cause an arc.

I scares the crap out of me everytime I have to mess with my cranking battery because my on board charger charger causes a small arc (because the capacitors in it have to charge). When I installed it a couple of years ago and connected it to the cranking battery the first time, my butt like to have choked me to death I pinched up so tight when it gave that little arc. You see, my power pack is over $1,000. Since then, when I disconnect it to clean the terminals or do anything with the electrical system, I connect it to another equally charged battery with jumper wires to charge the capacitors then connect it to my cranking battery. You may arc one a dozen times and never have a problem, then have that 13th time cost you big time.