Lots of sudden failures on Alberto knot

[Bandersnatch]

I love braid and so far I absolutely hate straight fluorocarbon. After fishing braid for years straight fluorocarbon feels like a rubber band. Even fishing a vision 110 on 12lb tatus and the one ten special, every rip feels like a rubber band, I don't get it. So, usually I've been using 40lbish smackdown and tying a leader, anywhere from 10lb to 20lb. These leaders are typically sniper, tactical or the c 100 with an Alberto knot. I love the ability to switch the leader for the situation. The problem, sudden failures at the connection knot. Yesterday I lost a fire craw jackhammer on the first hang up in a log. 40lb smackdown to 16 lb fc100 on the Alberto knot. It wasn't even a hookset, just a mild sweep and gone. I check the knot by applying pressure with my hands up to the point the line would cut me. I cut the ends fairly short but never all the way. What gives?? Just my knot incompetence? 

[Tim Kelly]

Learn to tie an FG, it really is just about bullet proof once you've worked out how to tie it well. It's a pain to learn, but once you have it down it's really no problem.

[Bird]

It's possible your not tying the Alberto properly. 

I go 7 wraps up and 7 back, cut both ends flush and never an issue. 

Everytime I break off it's always at the bait, not the Alberto. 

 

Watch a video to make sure your tying it properly. 

 

For reference, I use 15-20# Power Pro and 8-12# Sunline sniper Flouro for leaders. 

[bwjay]

Are you wetting the knot? Slobber on that thing. Fluoro can burn and weaken itself.

 

I've been meaning to try the Alberto knot but it's hard to want to switch when the Double Uni is mostly doing the job for me (some leader breakages).

[basser27]

Where is it breaking? Is the knot actually failing?

[NHBull]

I cant  tie that freekin knot to save my life.

Uni-uni has never failed me and once you get good at the FG you will never go back.

That said, when I have time at the dock, the PR gets the call.

[MassYak85]

If the Alberto is not tightened properly the loop the leader creates can stay open when the braid cinches down too "early" and leaves a small opening in the leader. This can allow the tag end of the braid to slip back out and completely unravel the knot. Check it very closely. 

[MickD]

I've experienced the same thing with the Alberto and thought it was because I was not going back through the loop the right way.  But it always happened during aggressive snapping a 4 in swimbait off the bottom.  So that may be it, instead.  I gave up on it and use the double uni where line sizes and guides allow it and FG for heavier lines or smaller guides.  The FG is a great knot, but it too can fail if you don't do it right.

 

9 minutes ago, basser27 said:

Where is it breaking? Is the knot actually failing?

My problem with the Alberto was that it unravelled.

[NHBull]

1 hour ago, MickD said:

I've experienced the same thing with the Alberto and thought it was because I was not going back through the loop the right way.  But it always happened during aggressive snapping a 4 in swimbait off the bottom.  So that may be it, instead.  I gave up on it and use the double uni where line sizes and guides allow it and FG for heavier lines or smaller guides.  The FG is a great knot, but it too can fail if you don't do it right.

 

My problem with the Alberto was that it unravelled.

The trick with the FG is to mushroom the leader when you cut it and before you finish the knot

[MickD]

I think the trick with the FG is to keep it very tight as you are doing the weaves, then it will draw tight without even adding any half hitches.  I'm not saying to eliminate the half hitches , only that if the weaves are kept tight then the knot will draw tight every time, deforming the leader and creating the deformation of the leader that is necessary for the knot to work.  Then the half hitches will keep it from loosening and failing.  And the best way to ensure that is to NOT to try to tie it with the braid between your teeth.

 

How do you mushroom the leader?  It sounds like a way to put something right at the end of the leader that will prevent the knot from slipping.  If you keep it tight as you are tying it , it will draw tight along its whole length and not have to depend on an "interference" right at the end of the leader.

[waymont]

2 hours ago, MickD said:

The FG is a great knot, but it too can fail if you don't do it right.

Every knot fails when not tied correctly.

[MickD]

But some knots are easier to reliably tie than others.  And the FG is easy to screw up.  But I understand what it takes to do a good FG.  The double uni is not easy to screw up.  It is easy to tie.  Its problem is that it can get too big for easy , clean , passage through small guides.    The Alberto, for me, is in never never land where I don't understand why it doesn't work reliably.  But it doesn't.

[Bandersnatch]

2 hours ago, MassYak85 said:

If the Alberto is not tightened properly the loop the leader creates can stay open when the braid cinches down too "early" and leaves a small opening in the leader. This can allow the tag end of the braid to slip back out and completely unravel the knot. Check it very closely. 

Maybe this is it. 

[BobP]

You must put the tag end through the leader loop in the same direction as you first started, when finishing the knot.  Otherwise, you will have just created a wrap, not an actual knot and it will come undone quickly.  I leave a little tag end 1/16” in the braid but cut the leader as short as possible.

[MickD]

On 4/6/2020 at 11:01 AM, BobP said:

You must put the tag end through the leader loop in the same direction as you first started, when finishing the knot.  Otherwise, you will have just created a wrap, not an actual knot and it will come undone quickly.  I leave a little tag end 1/16” in the braid but cut the leader as short as possible.

I know this, but I think at times my knot gets so messy the right way through is not obvious.  I've pretty well mastered the FG , so have not spent much time trying to figure out my Albertto problems.

[browne762]

Anybody have any issues with the FG on a spinning reel/rod?

 

If my leader is long and the Albertto gets to the spool, it seems to catch. 

[OkobojiEagle]

12 hours ago, browne762 said:

If my leader is long and the Albertto gets to the spool, it seems to catch. 

shorten your leader...

[Revival]

I use the Alberto exclusively.  I do 7 wraps down and 10 back up.  Never had any problems.

 

Once the leader is tied, I reel up until the knot is at the tip of the rod.  I then measure my leader by matching it to the length of the rod (to the butt).  If done this way, the leader knot will always be above the reel.

 

[browne762]

11 hours ago, OkobojiEagle said:

shorten your leader...

Doesn't work when you want a long leader.

[Bird]

On 4/6/2020 at 11:01 AM, BobP said:

You must put the tag end through the leader loop in the same direction as you first started, when finishing the knot.  Otherwise, you will have just created a wrap, not an actual knot and it will come undone quickly.  I leave a little tag end 1/16” in the braid but cut the leader as short as possible.

If your referring to the Alberto, that is opposite of the way shown to me to complete the knot.

While holding the Flouro loop in left hand , braid comes up through loop, wraps the Flouro and then braid tag end goes down through Flouro loop to complete. 

 

If this is incorrect, it never fails. 

[Revival]

9 hours ago, Bird said:

If your referring to the Alberto, that is opposite of the way shown to me to complete the knot.

While holding the Flouro loop in left hand , braid comes up through loop, wraps the Flouro and then braid tag end goes down through Flouro loop to complete. 

 

If this is incorrect, it never fails. 

I think what he means is that the tag end of the leader needs to go in the loop on the same

side that the main line is.  If not I’m misunderstanding too.  But here is a pic for reference on how I do it.

 

 

[Bird]

Thanks for the diagram which makes it clear.....that's the proper way.

[Revival]

No problem.  I tie the San Diego Jam for my main knot which uses the same concept of finishing the knot by going through the loop on the same side.  A lot of videos fail to mention that important detail.

[Michigander]

I had similar problems a few years ago. If you're like me, the root problem was the Smackdown. Well, more specifically, the slickness of the Smackdown. You need to add additional wraps when tying for the two lines to hold and that should fix the problem. If the slippage is still there, like when I experimented with Gliss, then you have to tie a double hitch at the end so it can't pull the end through itself.

 

Eventually though, I just said forget the Alberto and went with a Uni to Uni knot. My drag is set lower than the break point of my knot and when I do break off, I usually get my Uni knot back with a few inches of FC leader anyway so I really stopped worrying about it. At the end of the day, if I can't tie the knot in low light with cold, wet fingers and with the wind howling, then it isn't any good to me. I need a simple, fast, and reliable knot which ended up being the Uni-to-Uni for me.

 

Side note, Smackdown is my favorite braid, so I made sure to find a knot that it liked. Though I'm trying Hitena braid this year, so we'll see if there's a new chosen one.

[Bandersnatch]

On 4/9/2020 at 8:31 PM, Michigander said:

I had similar problems a few years ago. If you're like me, the root problem was the Smackdown. Well, more specifically, the slickness of the Smackdown. You need to add additional wraps when tying for the two lines to hold and that should fix the problem. If the slippage is still there, like when I experimented with Gliss, then you have to tie a double hitch at the end so it can't pull the end through itself.

 

Eventually though, I just said forget the Alberto and went with a Uni to Uni knot. My drag is set lower than the break point of my knot and when I do break off, I usually get my Uni knot back with a few inches of FC leader anyway so I really stopped worrying about it. At the end of the day, if I can't tie the knot in low light with cold, wet fingers and with the wind howling, then it isn't any good to me. I need a simple, fast, and reliable knot which ended up being the Uni-to-Uni for me.

 

Side note, Smackdown is my favorite braid, so I made sure to find a knot that it liked. Though I'm trying Hitena braid this year, so we'll see if there's a new chosen one.

Thank you. I also agree that smackdown's smoothness can cause problems. It's a lot of reason I've been using power pro max q lately.