What Kind of Daiwa Brakes??

[garroyo130]

Is Daiwa purposefully trying to blur the lines between braking systems? 

While looking into larger baitcasters for swimbaits, I noticed that some reels like the Tatula 200 (which I assume has Magforce Z braking) do not mention Magforce Z in the features: 

others, like the Lexa HD do show it 

 

and yet others like the Lexa Winn, which have a different brake dial entirely dont mention it either 

 

 

Its odd to me that these reels which aren't their bottom of the barrell models don't mention what braking systems are being used. 

 

Is there a way to tell definintely what braking system they are using?

[Russ E]

I did a quick search for all three reels you mentioned. They all have magforce cast control.

[Tim Kelly]

Magforce is just a basic magnetic brake. Mag Z has a moving rotor to vary the braking force further. SV and Air and 3D are all other variations of magnetic brake system.  Reels for chucking heavy baits don't need a particularly sophisticated braking system compared to those for chucking lighter baits.

[garroyo130]

24 minutes ago, Tim Kelly said:

Magforce is just a basic magnetic brake.

My understanding is theres a difference between Magforce and a regular magnetic brake such as that on Daiwa's CG80 and such

 

I guess i mean Magforce Z

[MN Fisher]

2 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

My understanding is theres a difference between Magforce and a regular magnetic brake such as that on Daiwa's CG80 and such

 

I guess i mean Magforce Z

Yes. The lower end Diawas - Cx series, ect. - have magnetic brakes like all others in their price range...no different than what's on my President or President XT.

 

Magforce-Z is an improvement on that and is available on Fuego and Tatula reels. The induction disk extends and retracts based on the speed of the spool - so the magnetic force varies during the cast...unlike standard magnetics where the force is the same at all points during the cast.

[PhishLI]

2 hours ago, garroyo130 said:

Is Daiwa purposefully trying to blur the lines between braking systems? 

They aint trying to fool ya. If you'd like a greater understanding of how mag brakes work then look up "Permanent magnet eddy current braking". It's been used in industry forever.

 

Daiwa didn't cheap out by offering Magforce and not Magforce Z in the 200. It's a heavy bait reel that doesn't benefit from using Magforce Z. Other Daiwa reels that are intended for heavier baits and happen to have Magforce Z may employ such a stiff spring that their inductors are nearly fixed, just like regular Magforce. The Tatula 150 is a middle ground reel with respect to lure weights, so it has Magforce Z.

 

BTW, the 200 is fantastic if you're thinking about it. Every bit as good as the Tranx 200 in use, I MO. Considering it's street price it's an absolute steal. I have both.

 

[MassYak85]

I'm not positive on the new Tatula 200, but the older 200HD I'm fairly certain had a static inductor spool. Still a good magnetic brake but the spool doesn't move to give that hybrid magnetic/centrifugal control that defines the Mag Z.  

1 hour ago, BaitFinesse said:

Yes, you get an inferior braking system with the Tatula 200 and Lexa reels.  This is why you should think twice about the Tatula 200 in addition to its wide size. Do you really want to sacrifice castiblity and palambility just to hold a ton of line?  

Sounds like from the OP he's looking to use this as a swimbait reel. If he's using 20+lb line he's gonna want the bigger 200 or 300 size reel with the beefed up internals to handle the long term wear and tear of heavy baits. 

 

Personally I use the older 200HD on my Dobyns 795 for 1-4oz baits with 20lb P-line PF. I haven't had any issue with the brakes although you can notice a little difference in wind with baits that tumble. 

[garroyo130]

Yeah looking for something for smaller swimbaits up to about 2oz. I'd imagine a 200/300 size would work best.

[Tim Kelly]

What line are you going to use? Up to 20lb fluoro/mono or 50lb braid 200 size, thicker line 300 size. My rule of thumb.

 

[garroyo130]

Yeah i'll try to stay around 20lb. Its my first venture into swimbaits 

[Tywithay]

1 hour ago, BaitFinesse said:

 

 

Yes, you get an inferior braking system with the Tatula 200 and Lexa reels.  This is why you should think twice about the Tatula 200 in addition to its wide size. Do you really want to sacrifice castiblity and palambility just to hold a ton of line?  

It's not an "inferior" system. It's just used for different applications. MagZ offers no advantage when you're throwing big 1oz+ baits. My Lexa 300CC has standard centrifugal brakes and I haven't seen many, if any, reels that can cast further. Deeper spools do indeed hold more line, but more line also equals more weight. The startup inertia requires more force, so obviously it will struggle with lighter baits. However, with the added weight it will spin far longer than a lighter spool, meaning more distance, if the weight, rod, line, and conditions, will allow.

[king fisher]

I have a Diawa Coastal ( similar to a 200 but made for salt water) I bought for light salt water use, and for deep cranking in  fresh water.  At first I always made sure I had the coastal on my heavy rod, and the Tatula Ct reels I have on my lighter outfits.  The Coastal has Mag force break and the CT Mag force Z.  To be honest, I notice very little difference in the two reels.  Many times I find myself putting the Coastal on a lighter rod and casting lighter lures just as well as the CT.  I wouldn't let the type of magnetic drag be the main factor in deciding which reel to buy, they both seem to work well. Size would be my main consideration. 

[Hammer 4]

6 hours ago, garroyo130 said:

Yeah i'll try to stay around 20lb. Its my first venture into swimbaits 

I use the Tatula 200 for 2 oz swimbaits. I spooled mine up with 17 lb Sufix Camo..

[PhishLI]

12 hours ago, BaitFinesse said:

Yes, you get an inferior braking system with the Tatula 200

It may be less advanced in theory, but in actual use as implemented in the 200 it's absolutely fine. Never came close to backlashing that reel.  No weirdness period.

[fishwizzard]

12 hours ago, BaitFinesse said:

.  Its really only in the UL world do we see fixed inductor/Magforce being preferable to Magforce Z and Air Brake where there is insufficient energy in the spool with these UL baits to activate the Air Brake or Magforce Z mechanisium 

That and at the extreme high-end of aftermarket spools. I have a ZPI PG that has a fixed inductor and it give an incredible amount of distance and control with even the stiffest fluorocarbon lines, no idea how they did it but it’s one of the best casting spools I have ever used.  
 

I do agree that in general, other than for ultralightweight casting, there isn’t a single application where I would prefer a linear-mag brake system to a Magforce or centerfugal system. 

[PhishLI]

1 hour ago, BaitFinesse said:

It's not backlashes but usually complaints of shorter than desired casting distances

I have a new Tat 200 and a Tranx 200,  each on Dobyn's Champ XP 794s. They both cast like a dream and equally as far with the baits I use. Honestly, I was surprised at how much I like the Tat and how well it performs. I wasn't expecting it to be this nice. It's also remarkably smooth on the retrieve. The Tranx has only a slight edge here. It feels belt driven, even without MM gearing. Butter.

[garroyo130]

5 minutes ago, PhishLI said:

I have a new Tat 200 and a Tranx 200,  each on Dobyn's Champ XP 794s. They both cast like a dream and equally as far with the baits I use. Honestly, I was surprised at how much I like the Tat and how well it performs. I wasn't expecting it to be this nice. It's also remarkably smooth on the retrieve. The Tranx has only a slight edge here. It feels belt driven, even without MM gearing. Butter.

Is there a big jump from a Curado 200k to either of these? 

[PhishLI]

4 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

Is there a big jump from a Curado 200k to either of these?

I'd say there's a reason Shimano didn't put micro module gearing in the Tranx. High resistance baits may not be ideal for the Curado. 

 

P.S. Daiwa claims heavy duty gearing's in the 200

[fishwizzard]

3 minutes ago, BaitFinesse said:

Those spools are outliers for sure.  I've been tempted to get one but they are pricey and I have my doubts that I would find them as impressive as others.  

 

Conspiracy theory: everyone that I have heard from that says they are great uses lefty reels and palm while casting.  These guys use smooth casting motions unable to flick their wrist on the cast due to palming the reel.  The casting distances they report on regular spools are also very unimpressive.  I have my doubts that the fixed inductor and my hard casting would pair well.  The spools are also very shallow and I already cast out a lot of line.  So far I have held off but I will probably try the fixed inductor Ray's long cast for $50.  I've heard that one is right up there with the ZPI spools. 

That’s an interesting idea, I use right handed reels and generally cast with two fingers in front of the trigger, with my pointer finger indexed on the blank.  I definitely feel like I make vasty shorter casts than most other people as I end up using backing on everything but the most shallow spools and even then I don’t think I’ve ever come close to spoiling myself. 

I have a measuring wheel and an extreme amount of free time at the moment, I should stake out some distances in the behind my house and see how far I am actually casting.  

 

The ZPI PG spool is great though, it seems to cast as well as an RCS 1012sv but with more line capacity and control.  When I first got it I filled it with 12lb YZH and I had to deliberately make very hard snap-casts in order to get it to fully blow up. They are stupidly expensive but the urge to try one was too great and I have it paired with an old TDZ that I paid about as much for as the spool cost, so I ended up with an incredible real it still cost me just a little over 300 

[PhishLI]

58 minutes ago, BaitFinesse said:

I heard a rumor that the 200 has hardened gearing

On Daiwa's homepage they claim reinforced brass gearing. Next time I'm up in the attic I'll pull out the box and check the lit.