Guides and Guiding

[Mobasser]

4 minutes ago, jbsoonerfan said:

I have been on 2 guided trips for Largemouth. Both times were on big bass lakes in Oklahoma and Texas. I didn't expect to go catch a DD fish on these trips but I did expect to learn a little bit about the lakes, where fish were different times of the year, how the body of water warms and cools, seasonal patterns, etc. Instead my buddy and I fished off the back deck for the majority of the day while the guides ran the TM and threw at all the spots before we could. Both times the guides caught more than both of us combined. These guys both had attitudes like they were big shot bass guys who were simply giving us the pleasure of getting to fish with them and out of their fancy boat. I have been back to both lakes and caught more each time fishing by myself. I would NEVER hire a guide for Largemouth again.

 

Now, I have also been on 2 guided Striper trips. Both times the guides worked on finding fish, showing us what to look for on the graph, how to watch the birds to find fish and where they were depending on time of year. Neither of them ever landed a fish. They would bait our hooks (which each of us could have done, but they both said that's what they were getting paid to do) net our fish, and put them in the cooler so we could get back to fishing. We caught our limit both times well before the "day" was up but each time they let us keep fishing as long as we were still catching with the understanding that they had to be thrown back. They cleaned the fish and bagged them up for us after the trip and made sure we got them however we wanted. These guys acted like they were glad to have us on the boat and they would do all that they could to see that we were happy. I would DEFINITELY go on a guided Striper trip again.

 

I would also say it is much easier to go find schooling Striper (especially if you are working with other guides to locate them) than it is to go find Largemouth on a consistent basis so that has something to do with it. However, I don't get a good impression from someone when they are being paid by me so they can just enjoy a day of fishing while have someone on their boat. You should treat it as a job, not a hobby.

Well said. Once you become a guide, it becomes a job, no longer a hobby.

[flatcreek]

4 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

That sounds nice but they must live alone and not have a trip the next morning

Either their trying to find fish or they don’t like their wife.

[Chris at Tech]

I book guides pretty frequently and I've had a wide range of experience, but here's my input.

 

My overall experience with a guide does not start and end on the day of fishing.  Rather it all starts with communication beforehand.  Were you able to easily communicate with the guide via email, phone or text?  Was the guide receptive to hearing what your expectations of the trip are?  Does the guide have an online presence where you can get a recent look into his results?

 

Then the day of the trips arrives.  Was the guide on time?  Is the equipment and boat in good shape?  Was the guide enjoyable to spend time with on the boat?  Did you lean something?  Did the guide work hard?  Did you get results?

 

For a guide, I tend to think that one of the hardest aspects of their job on a daily basis is having no idea who the hell is getting into their boat that day.  Are they experienced fisherman who know what to expect?  Are they total rookies who just booked a trip on a whim to have some fun?  A guide needs to be prepared to service any and all comers.  There are times when you need to go soak bait for whatever bites to keep the kids entertained, and then there are times when you can do the high risk/high reward trips with more seasoned customers.  Unfortunately for guides, I think there is some segment of their customer base whose expectations are a bit too high.  Even despite a guide's best efforts, some things are not in their control.

 

There is one guide I've built such a good relationship with, that I'm closing in on trip #40 with him.  He was one of the first guides I'd ever chartered, and he saw the bar awfully on the entire experience.  I have a few other guides I'm closing on on trip #10 with, and then I have a few guides I stopped using after the first or second trip.

[Bluebasser86]

I've only fished with a guide a couple times. While I was in Mexico it was enjoyable. The guides drive the boat and obviously have all the knowledge of the lakes you could ask for and were able to put us on fish.

 

The other I used was on the White River in Arkansas and it was not an enjoyable trip. We'd got there early and caught some trout from my boat, including a couple browns which were the whole reason we'd made the trip. The guide basically told us what I had been doing wouldn't work then because of conditions and we needed to do what he wanted to do. We told him we wanted to catch browns, didn't care one bit about catching rainbows. The first spot we stopped at I caught one sickly looking brown trout. The guy liked my new spinning setup I'd bought for the trip so much he picked it up and started fishing with it until I finally asked if I could have it back. Each time we moved he told us there was going to be fewer and fewer brown trout as we moved downriver. Didn't catch another brown and I got frustrated and asked if would please use our last hour to try and target the fish we were trying to catch. He fired up the motor and while we were running upriver, hit a rock and his whole motor flew off the back of the boat and sank. I caught the throttle right before it went under and managed to haul the 25hp motor back into the boat but it would start again after the dunking. My buddy and I had our waders on so we pulled the boat, all the gear, the guide, and my buddies stepson upriver against the current for almost 2 miles. Then the guy asked us to pay him at the ramp. I told him to look up how much it would have just cost him to pay for a tow up the river if we hadn't been nice enough to pull him. We didn't end up paying.

 

I've been guiding for about 5 years now on top of my full time job and it's been mostly enjoyable. I think the hardest people to take are the ones that want to do everything their way instead of listening to what I'm telling them to do. I don't understand the concept of paying someone to take you fishing and then all but refusing to do what they're saying will work. I haven't ever had anyone get skunked, but I've had a couple come close. The ones that want to go fish the power plant lake in the middle of winter are tough. It's a tough lake but they see the pictures of me with big fish and don't realize how hard I'm working to catch those fish. I just make sure to emphasize how tough it is, how tough the conditions are to fish in, and that I'm taking them to learn what I do, where I do it, why I do it, how I do it, catching fish is a bonus because even I don't catch them every time. As long as I can get them into that mindset, it goes well and I'll share stories of each location and big fish caught and big fish lost in the past. I've had several repeat customers and several have my phone number and like to message to ask questions about different situations and share pictures of their catches. It's rewarding to me to be able to teach people and see them enjoying the trip and experience.

[roadwarrior]

[813basstard]

To fish as a co-angler it’s only $100 now for FLW. 
Most important rule was surviving take off with 150+ boats and someone you met in the parking lot 33 minutes ago.

[Chris at Tech]

So uh, @Bluebasser86 - your post made me chuckle a bit.

 

In your experience as the guide customer, it seems you didn't like the guide giving his advice on what to do or not do based on the conditions.  In your experience as the guide, you don't like it when people don't listen to the guide.  So, which is it?

 

I'm sure there was some nuance between the two where it's not nearly as simplistic as I summarized above, but I think this also neatly summarizes the daily difficulties a professional guide will face ?

[Bluebasser86]

15 minutes ago, Chris at Tech said:

So uh, @Bluebasser86 - your post made me chuckle a bit.

 

In your experience as the guide customer, it seems you didn't like the guide giving his advice on what to do or not do based on the conditions.  In your experience as the guide, you don't like it when people don't listen to the guide.  So, which is it?

 

I'm sure there was some nuance between the two where it's not nearly as simplistic as I summarized above, but I think this also neatly summarizes the daily difficulties a professional guide will face ?

I didn't mind him giving advice, but writing off a technique that is proven on that body of water and had already produced multiple fish in just an hour seemed (and proved to be), foolish. 

 

I don't ever tell anyone not to try a bait or technique, I've been surprised before, but the hardheaded ones that try to force them to eat something all day when it's clearly not working is frustrating. 

[Scott F]

My favorite guide and the one I’ve used the most, knows what’s working and I usually take his advice. On days when I want to try something different, he is always supportive. For example, in the fall, on the river he guides, live, red tail chubs are the bait that will catch the most smallmouth. I don’t enjoy live bait fishing as much, so I often will give artificials a try first. He might think I’m stupid for doing it, but helps me as much as he can. After I’ve been outfished by my fishing partner, I’ll give in and switch to live bait. 
Another guide I was fishing with on Rainy Lake in Minnesota told us stories of why he didn’t like Al Lindner. It seems when he guided Al, Al never listened to what the guide wanted to do. Part of the fun fishing with guides for me is listening to the stories they tell. 

[MGF]

I only fished with a guide twice. Many years ago my dad and I hired a guide for half a day on Lake Norefork to catch some stripers...summer fishing deep with down riggers. We caught a bunch of big fish too.

 

The other time was a few years ago my wife and I went out with a local musky guide. We boated 3 legal muskies with the largest being 45".

 

Both we good experiences.

[N Florida Mike]

I’ve never hired a guide , except for party boats, that do offshore bottom fishing.

I have never guided for pay, but have considered it. I’m pretty sure I won’t at this point , especially not adults , unless somebody begs me and wants to pay.

I guide for friends that don’t fish much and just want to catch some, of course without pay.

What I haven’t totally given up on is guiding kids. I enjoy teaching kids how to fish. I’ve taught 5 of 7 grandkids how. But 1 or 2 at a time is all I can handle !! I do it for fun and to help them have fun, but I still think there’s a way to make a little extra money with it too. 
Except you’d need insurance , which would eat up your profit I imagine.

 

[Daddles]

I have hired a guide/charter twice in my life. One saltwater one freshwater.  The saltwater trip was ok.  the guides were nice but the weather sucked and we really didn't catch much. Plus, most people were getting sick.  It was out of their control. We caught a few snapper a piece.  When we got back the cleaned all the fish and offered to take us out the next day at no cost to make up for the trip.  I appreciated the offer but had plans the following day.

 

I booked a freshwater guide for my son and I and it was absolutely worth it.  When I first booked I asked to go Crappie fishing as that was what was suggested where we were going.  We met the guide early in the morning and he said Bass was better now so we went with it.  I told him whatever he thought was best and to not worry about me focus on my son.  I did ask him to help me with a baitcaster. He did all of the above in spades.  It was a great 1/2 day.  We probably stayed out about an hour extra.  Caught 14 on a Bluebird day in about 4 hours. Not to mention some mudfish. Guide was a riot and my son loved it.  I can't wait go up and book him again. Completely worth it.

[frogflogger]

I did it for years. First fly fishing for bonefish with one client only. Then bass fishing various spots and then Florida everglades. If folks wanted to use shiners I told them of guides that would be good for that style. If I ever thought a client wasn't having a good day with me I wouldn't charge.

The guide should NEVER fish unless client asks him and then it was to demonstrate technique.

 I had a few rules - 1- no getting drunk in my boat, 2- no politics or religion, 3- no killing fish without reason.

I met wonderful people, helped several to their personal best, best of all was when they caught their big fish on topwater. 

But, man, it was hard work and long hours.

[Alex from GA]

Never been on a guided bass fishing trip but on a bunch of saltwater trips mostly in Mexico and Baja.  I fish with people that are better fishermen than I am, a few were guides, and learn from them.  Most of the Mexican guides I've had were top notch.    

[fishinbub]

In college I did some guiding on local trout streams. The key is understanding expectations. Some guys want to catch a lot of fish, some want a PB, some want to learn, and some just want to be out on the water with a friend or family member. Some people want you to provide the gear and net their fish, and some guys want you to tell them where to cast, what cast to use, what flies to throw, when to move etc. Some guys want to talk the whole time, some just want to enjoy the peace and quiet. If you figure out what people want, and you give it to them, they're happy. If you don't, they're not going to be happy. That can mean you catch a lot of big fish and the client is still pretty indifferent. It can also mean the client struggled to put one fish in the net, and enjoyed it so much they booked the next trip before you get off the water.

Also, the guides attitude is very important. 90% of the time the client doesn't know what constitutes a good day numbers wise. If the conditions are good, but the guide has a bad attitude (upset about missing fish, fish not biting, etc.) then the client will assume it's a bad day. If the bite is slow and conditions are bad, but the guide has a good attitude, the client may not realize the bite was slow. You have one goal: make sure the client ends the day happy with their experience.

[Captain Phil]

Lots of recreational anglers dream of being a fishing guide.  Being a fishing guide is one of the worst ways you could ever can imagine to make a living.  Your day starts early and ends late.  There is always something to repair or replace.  The customers watch fishing shows on TV and expect the same experience. By the time you pay for the boat, fuel, insurance and everything else, you are making about the same money as working at Walmart.  The easiest way to be a bass guide in Florida is to soak $25 a dozen shiners.  If that's what you want, any guide will do.

 

The most important thing when choosing a guide is communication.  Ask questions first and make your expectations clear before you book.  Ask for references.  Any decent guide will have them. 

[Manifestgtr]

The absolute BEST “guided” trip I ever took was in Phuket, Thailand back in 1999.

 

These local fishermen were just chillin on the beach when I walked by with my mother. After a short “conversation” (they spoke exactly no English and my Thai was limited to “thank you”, “hello”, etc)...we hopped into one of their little rowboats and headed out into the bay. Using nothing but hand lines and bait, we caught a ton of little fish while they sat back, drank beer, made light of our incompetence and tried to communicate with us. I’ll always remember this one guy’s hook setting instructions. He looked at the line and went “tuk tuk...PAH! hmm?”...then when I failed to set the hook and missed a fish, he pointed at me and went “tuk tuk”, paused and then broke into a gale of laughter.

 

They were a great group of dudes. When that tsunami hit Phuket back in 2004, they were the first people I thought of. All those people lived right on the beach. I really hope they made it out of there...and to be honest, I don’t like to think about what might’ve happened to them.

[skekoam]

I took my son on a guided trip a few days ago as a belated birthday gift.  We had scheduled this trip a month or so back, but got delayed by the whole Covid issue.

 

Overall, the trip was great and we had a great time.  The guide charged us $400 for a full day.  The cool thing is he let us bring a baitcaster to use.  The other guides I spoke to said we would only be using his spinning gear.  On the day of our trip, we started throwing reaction baits first just to see what the bite was like.  I had an A-rig tied on my baitcaster and my son was throwing something top water.   On my 3rd cast I caught a 2 pounder.   Had another one on a few casts later and it shook the hook right at the boat.  The guide was throwing a spinner bait and crank bait.  He caught one early with the spinner bait.  After about an hr, we moved to a different spot where he had luck a few days earlier.  Basically, the idea was to cast out a thin senko weightless and drag it around with the trolling motor.  We caught maybe 8-9 fish using this method.  I would say we spend about 3-4 hours trolling back and forth along the same stretch of 200 yards somewhat near the bank.  The fish were there, but didn't seem to be biting.  I though the method was really boring, but what do I know.  I lost a few fish just because I wasn't paying attention.  

 

We then moved on to a different shore area.  The idea here was to use the same small senko and cast to the shore.  Let the bait sink to the bottom for 10-15 seconds and then reel in and do it again.  We caught the most and biggest fish doing this.  For about the last hr, it was getting super windy and we didn't catch anything.

 

For the day, we landed 25 fish and lost another 5 at the boat and another 5 or so with bad hook sets.   25 fish seems like a lot, but it wasn't really given the time lapsed between some of the catches.  Also, I was hoping to catch some bigger fish.   I'm not sure how I felt about the guide fishing too.  I think it was fine.  At least it gave some idea if fish were in the area or not.  A few of the other guides I spoke to said they don't fish during the trip.

 

Overall, the guide was very nice and helpful.  I appreciated the fact that he was patient with my son who literally went non stop with the guide about fishing, gear, tournaments, etc...

 

Here is a pic of my son and I with our biggest fish.  My son caught the biggest at 4 lbs.  Notice how I'm only carrying 1 fish?  Right before the picture, one of my fish shook and he flopped right into the water.  ughhhh....

 

 

[MountainMan83]

24 minutes ago, skekoam said:

I took my son on a guided trip a few days ago as a belated birthday gift.  We had scheduled this trip a month or so back, but got delayed by the whole Covid issue.

 

Overall, the trip was great and we had a great time.  The guide charged us $400 for a full day.  The cool thing is he let us bring a baitcaster to use.  The other guides I spoke to said we would only be using his spinning gear.  On the day of our trip, we started throwing reaction baits first just to see what the bite was like.  I had an A-rig tied on my baitcaster and my son was throwing something top water.   On my 3rd cast I caught a 2 pounder.   Had another one on a few casts later and it shook the hook right at the boat.  The guide was throwing a spinner bait and crank bait.  He caught one early with the spinner bait.  After about an hr, we moved to a different spot where he had luck a few days earlier.  Basically, the idea was to cast out a thin senko weightless and drag it around with the trolling motor.  We caught maybe 8-9 fish using this method.  I would say we spend about 3-4 hours trolling back and forth along the same stretch of 200 yards somewhat near the bank.  The fish were there, but didn't seem to be biting.  I though the method was really boring, but what do I know.  I lost a few fish just because I wasn't paying attention.  

 

We then moved on to a different shore area.  The idea here was to use the same small senko and cast to the shore.  Let the bait sink to the bottom for 10-15 seconds and then reel in and do it again.  We caught the most and biggest fish doing this.  For about the last hr, it was getting super windy and we didn't catch anything.

 

For the day, we landed 25 fish and lost another 5 at the boat and another 5 or so with bad hook sets.   25 fish seems like a lot, but it wasn't really given the time lapsed between some of the catches.  Also, I was hoping to catch some bigger fish.   I'm not sure how I felt about the guide fishing too.  I think it was fine.  At least it gave some idea if fish were in the area or not.  A few of the other guides I spoke to said they don't fish during the trip.

 

Overall, the guide was very nice and helpful.  I appreciated the fact that he was patient with my son who literally went non stop with the guide about fishing, gear, tournaments, etc...

 

Here is a pic of my son and I with our biggest fish.  My son caught the biggest at 4 lbs.  Notice how I'm only carrying 1 fish?  Right before the picture, one of my fish shook and he flopped right into the water.  ughhhh....

 

 

Very cool! Looks like a beautiful day and a great memory!