How many have mostly abandoned the Ned Rig

[ChrisD46]

On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2020 at 11:44 AM, Team9nine said:

Still quite heavy in my rotation through last year (going on close to 10 years now). Still works great on most waters I fish, especially smaller ones. Not seeing any big drop off from pressure, but I attribute a bunch of that to most people not fishing it "correctly"    

*By "correctly" Team9nine is referring to one of the 5 ~ 6 Ned Rig "no feel" retrieves . While an all - around winner still , the Ned Rig is by far the ideal application by far  for post - front , blue bird skies with flat water , no wind conditions which typically cause bass to have lock jaw . Mid - West guys like Team9nine are now getting their masters and doctorate degrees in the Mid - West Finesse / Ned Rig - while the rest of us are mere freshman or sophomore under classmen in the Mid - West Finesse / Ned Rig ... Before giving up on the Ned Rig - go back and analyze your approach / tactics with the Ned Rig ! My Ned Rig set up : 7' ML / F spinning rod , 2500 series reel , #8 lb. PP braid main line + #6 lb. FC leader (6') , 1/32nd oz. , 1/20th oz. 1/15th oz. and 1/16th oz. mushroom jig head with a #4 or #2 size hook with half a Z-Man ZinkerZ or Finesse TRD (or similar soft plastic) of your choice using one of the 5 ~ 6 "no feel" retrieves . This is the text book Mid - West Finesse / Ned Rig set up - if your set up doesn't look similar , than you are fishing another technique other than the Mid - West Finesse / Ned Rig . 

[Team9nine]

“You don't tug on superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Ned”

 

? ? ?

[The Bassman]

3 hours ago, Team9nine said:

“You don't tug on superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Ned”

 

? ? ?

Hope Ned doesn't know all the words to the song cause ole Jim Walker was big and dumb as a man could come.

[Paul Roberts]

For me, the Ned pretty much fishes itself. Certain motions trigger bites, but that's true for all lures. It's saying something when a lure can meet you part way, and most of the time.

[OCdockskipper]

It isn't so much about fishing it correctly as NOT fishing it INCORRECTLY.

 

When I hear people say the light wire hooks aren't sturdy, I know they are using too heavy of a setup with the drag not properly set.  I have caught multiple bass over 7 lbs and multiple catfish over 13 lbs on the ZMan Shroomz and have never broken or bent a hook.  I believe Bluebasser86 has a Flathead over 20lbs on his ned resume using a lightwire hook.

 

When I hear people talk about using weights heavier than 1/10 oz, or that they prefer to use baitcasting gear, I know they are fishing it like a jig, feeling the bottom as they move along (stream fishing may be a different deal, I'm just talking about lakes).  That can catch fish, but it is a different method than Midwest Finesse.

 

Follow the guidelines as far as tackle and lure size and in my opinion, start with ZMan baits, either a TRD or half a Zinker.  With the gear right, it is almost impossible to fish it wrong.  There are a bunch of different retrieves, heck you can even just cast it out, dead stick for 30 seconds and then repeat the process.  It may not be the most effective way, but I guarantee a few times you go to reel in the lure, you'll have a bass on.

 

If you don't want to fish that way, thats fine, just don't kid yourself that you were using the method prescribed and it didn't work.  That would be no different than using a buzzbait on a drop shot rig and then later proclaiming that buzzbaits don't catch many bass.

[Cgolf]

After catching some creek chubs on a minnowbait tonight I threw a ned plastic on a 1/4 gopher head with a bigger hook I bought for jig worming. I got some hits on the jig worm.

 

So I decided tomorrow to give the Berkley 1/16 oz ned heads a go with 1.25" Ned micro plastic, cut my standard AC wart hawg in quarters. Shortened the plastic to help the trout and creek chubs find the hook. Being a small creek, the fish run much smaller. If it works I may give it a go for smallies too. I have caught a few smallies over the years with just a chunk of a worm on the hook shank only. Kind of a jumbo ice jig.

[Dirtyeggroll]

On 3/31/2020 at 8:39 AM, cgolf said:

 

As far as the Z man stuff goes I am on the fence of what I do with my back stock.

I'll take it ?

[Cgolf]

7 minutes ago, Dirtyeggroll said:

I'll take it ?

I will probably use it again, but it is a pain fishing on the bank as a 3500 sized bag fisherman to keep cranks, regular plastics and Zman plastics seperated. I may just decide Zman day or regular plastic day. Add to that scent, lip gripper and pliers in the bag.

[Hook2Jaw]

On 4/2/2020 at 7:27 AM, ChrisD46 said:

*By "correctly" Team9nine is referring to one of the 5 ~ 6 Ned Rig "no feel" retrieves . While an all - around winner still , the Ned Rig is by far the ideal application by far  for post - front , blue bird skies with flat water , no wind conditions which typically cause bass to have lock jaw . Mid - West guys like Team9nine are now getting their masters and doctorate degrees in the Mid - West Finesse / Ned Rig - while the rest of us are mere freshman or sophomore under classmen in the Mid - West Finesse / Ned Rig ... Before giving up on the Ned Rig - go back and analyze your approach / tactics with the Ned Rig ! My Ned Rig set up : 7' ML / F spinning rod , 2500 series reel , #8 lb. PP braid main line + #6 lb. FC leader (6') , 1/32nd oz. , 1/20th oz. 1/15th oz. and 1/16th oz. mushroom jig head with a #4 or #2 size hook with half a Z-Man ZinkerZ or Finesse TRD (or similar soft plastic) of your choice using one of the 5 ~ 6 "no feel" retrieves . This is the text book Mid - West Finesse / Ned Rig set up - if your set up doesn't look similar , than you are fishing another technique other than the Mid - West Finesse / Ned Rig . 

What are the 5-6 no feel retrieves? 

[Paul Roberts]

36 minutes ago, Hook2Jaw said:

What are the 5-6 no feel retrieves? 

You  can Google them. Ned Kehde wrote it up for IF. They are essentially derivations of... chuck a light jig on a light line in the water.  They employ various triggers based on fish mood and circumstances. But, the "no feel" part of it is just what you get with a super light jig -a lure that doesn't 'pull back'.

 

Knowing "where your lure is" is critical in all lures. It's more disconcerting to new anglers when the lure doesn't offer much resistance on your rod. So, for me, it starts by having my rod dead still as I retrieve. That's the "straight swim". If I feel anything... it wasn't me. Rock, wood, weed, bottom, current, fish. Over time you get to know where your lure is, how deep, and how to keep it there. You learn what all that stuff feels like. After you have some experience with the basics, you can start adding stuff, stuff that "was you", that can trigger bites. The swim, though, btw, is plenty deadly. And, tough not to impart action to... as your mind begins to drift.

 

The tiny finesse plastics, the ElaZtech's esp, have a saving grace. Fish generally hold them long enough for us to figure out that.. it's a fish!

 

Hope this helps.

[Cgolf]

To add to the confusion of what a Ned rig is companies like Zman, one most linked to Ned, and others offer jumbo baits and jigs with 1/0 hooks and larger and a 1/4 ounce or more and market them as Ned rigs. Pros also do the same. I would guess 90% of anglers think they are fishing the Ned rig when there not. I think many even on the board have given up arguing it. 

[MN Fisher]

10 hours ago, OCdockskipper said:

When I hear people talk about using weights heavier than 1/10 oz, or that they prefer to use baitcasting gear, I know they are fishing it like a jig, feeling the bottom as they move along (stream fishing may be a different deal, I'm just talking about lakes).  That can catch fish, but it is a different method than Midwest Finesse.

Ya, heaviest I have is 1/10 and I usually fish it on my UL rig (Pres-25 (going to a Pres-20 this year), 6'6" UL/F rod, 4# YZH).

 

If I want to go weedless...though I haven't had much issue with the standard mushroom head, I got some of the Gamy Offset Finesse heads in 3/32

 

Plastics: 2.75" TRD Worm, 3" TRD HogZ, 2.5" TRD Craw or 3" Slim SwimZ

[Paul Roberts]

4 hours ago, cgolf said:

To add to the confusion of what a Ned rig is companies like Zman, one most linked to Ned, and others offer jumbo baits and jigs with 1/0 hooks and larger and a 1/4 ounce or more and market them as Ned rigs. Pros also do the same. I would guess 90% of anglers think they are fishing the Ned rig when there not. I think many even on the board have given up arguing it. 

They're effective though. I think the "Ned" name has become a marketers term. I see "larger" cigar-type baits as baits that nearly fish themselves as well. A 4" stick-worm, on a wacky jighead is killer, even in open water like the Ned grub is. People have sworn by the 3" Senko. I've never used one, but... I take that back. I've certainly used half a ZinkerZ on a jighead! What was this thread about?

 

Lotsa options out there. Hard to argue with a cigar shaped bait though. Either the whole cigar, or just a chunk of it. How to fish it? Throw it in the water. If something tries to swim away with it, set the hook. It's a lot easier, but not necessarily more fun, than trying to ricochet a crankbait off a stump or weed clump. 

[Cgolf]

So @Team9nine Would this qualify as Ned rig or is the plastic too short? Berk Ned head size 1 hook and a 1.25” piece of an anglers choice wart hawg. Unfortunately since gopher closed finding smaller than a size 1 hook is next to impossible. Did a trade with bluebasser a while back. Had I known gopher was closing should have traded for some of his Ned heads instead of lures. 

[Team9nine]

16 hours ago, cgolf said:

So @Team9nine Would this qualify as Ned rig or is the plastic too short? Berk Ned head size 1 hook and a 1.25” piece of an anglers choice wart hawg. Unfortunately since gopher closed finding smaller than a size 1 hook is next to impossible. Did a trade with bluebasser a while back. Had I known gopher was closing should have traded for some of his Ned heads instead of lures. 

Personally, I’ve come to detest the term “Ned rig” these days - lol ? A simpler way to think of it is, “Would Ned fish it/do it?” This quickly eliminates all kinds of things frequently posted about like weedless and weed guards, deep water, current, large hooks, heavy heads, “brushpiles”, slop or hvy weeds, etc., etc.

 

The short plastic presents no problem, as cutting down or modifying plastics is inherent to the style, which once included  small hair and marabou jigs as well as curlytail grubs. I did great over the winter using 1/2 a ZinkerZ trimmed down by another 3/8 inch still in the coldest water temps of the year.

 

The #1 jig hook is a no-no though for a variety of reasons, though there is the caveat that not all companies use standardized hook size ratings. One jig head option that Ned moved to with the closing of Gopher was the VMC Moon Eye jigs. Their 1/32 and 1/16 oz heads sport small hooks that match the Gophers.

[Cgolf]

2 hours ago, Team9nine said:

Personally, I’ve come to detest the term “Ned rig” these days - lol ? A simpler way to think of it is, “Would Ned fish it/do it?” This quickly eliminates all kinds of things frequently posted about like weedless and weed guards, deep water, current, large hooks, heavy heads, “brushpiles”, slop or hvy weeds, etc., etc.

 

The short plastic presents no problem, as cutting down or modifying plastics is inherent to the style, which once included  small hair and marabou jigs as well as curlytail grubs. I did great over the winter using 1/2 a ZinkerZ trimmed down by another 3/8 inch still in the coldest water temps of the year.

 

The #1 jig hook is a no-no though for a variety of reasons, though there is the caveat that not all companies use standardized hook size ratings. One jig head option that Ned moved to with the closing of Gopher was the VMC Moon Eye jigs. Their 1/32 and 1/16 oz heads sport small hooks that match the Gophers.

I know the #1 hook is a no go, but other than the VMC is there a right sized hook commercially available? I have some mini morels that fit the bill, but he only offers th3 standard morel now with the size #1 hook. My sub #1 hooked jigs are in short supply. 
 

I think the Z mans may fit it, but I don’t like the hook material. I like the more flexible like on a ball head jig. Ball head jigs are legit too right? Doesn’t have to be a mushroom head. Honestly the smaller hook would be better for the trout I am currently after. 
 

Only other options I have are 1/16 oz ball heads which definitely have smaller hooks and 1/16 oz fireball jig heads which have a wide gap but super short shank, not sure if these count as the shank is shorter than my gopher heads I have left. 
 

@Bluebasser86 What size hooks do you use on the heads you pour? Says #2 on this thread, but found older thread,2016, that said #1. I was doing a search for the Zman hook size I found that thread. 

[scaleface]

Its not that I abandoned Ned Rigs , its that I'm pretty much a  heavy cover oriented angler and dont see throwing them in those situations .

[Paul Roberts]

I found 1/3 of a Zinker on a weedless Slider Head effective in weedy waters this winter. Weeds died back a lot leaving open pockets, and the bass sluggish -or at least short-lived- fighters, so I got by with 6lb FC leader.

[Team9nine]

3 hours ago, cgolf said:

I know the #1 hook is a no go, but other than the VMC is there a right sized hook commercially available? I have some mini morels that fit the bill, but he only offers th3 standard morel now with the size #1 hook. My sub #1 hooked jigs are in short supply. 
 

I think the Z mans may fit it, but I don’t like the hook material. I like the more flexible like on a ball head jig. Ball head jigs are legit too right? Doesn’t have to be a mushroom head. Honestly the smaller hook would be better for the trout I am currently after. 
 

Only other options I have are 1/16 oz ball heads which definitely have smaller hooks and 1/16 oz fireball jig heads which have a wide gap but super short shank, not sure if these count as the shank is shorter than my gopher heads I have left. 

I’m pretty much a Gopher and ShroomZ guy most of the time. I do have a ton of the VMC Moon Eyes, and the only other head I use is by Dave Reeves. His Prescription Plastics Co. makes a custom mushroom head for MF called Ozark Finesse Heads.

 

Fireballs would probably not be ideal in this application. You could probably get by with ballheads in many instances, but I’ve never messed with them for MF. 

[Paul Roberts]

6 hours ago, Team9nine said:

The #1 jig hook is a no-no though for a variety of reasons

Is this due to hook weight? And length?

[Team9nine]

46 minutes ago, Paul Roberts said:

Is this due to hook weight? And length?

There has been a lot of discussion among MF anglers over the years concerning hook size, much of which has gone on "offline." That said, the arguments for smaller hook sizes no bigger than a No. 2 include:

 

• has smaller gap and is more weedless, coming through scattered cover better
• do less damage to the fish, especially if fished barbless (Ned does most days)
• have shorter lengths that leave more trailing plastic (ratio) for better subtle action
• weigh less which helps with the weightless "no feel" aspect of MF
• usually have thinner diameters which arguably gives easier hook penetration

[Paul Roberts]

9 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

There has been a lot of discussion among MF anglers over the years concerning hook size, much of which has gone on "offline." That said, the arguments for smaller hook sizes no bigger than a No. 2 include:

 

• has smaller gap and is more weedless, coming through scattered cover better
• do less damage to the fish, especially if fished barbless (Ned does most days)
• have shorter lengths that leave more trailing plastic (ratio) for better subtle action
• weigh less which helps with the weightless "no feel" aspect of MF
• usually have thinner diameters which arguably gives easier hook penetration

I gave up on barbless jigs. Bass seemed to throw them like... a hot hook in butter! (How's that for a description ) That was with UL/L tackle. I wonder if this is, partly, why Ned uses M weight tackle? 

[Bluebasser86]

5 hours ago, cgolf said:

 

 

@Bluebasser86 What size hooks do you use on the heads you pour? Says #2 on this thread, but found older thread,2016, that said #1. I was doing a search for the Zman hook size I found that thread. 

I've got some of both but mostly use the #2. I actually have some #6 that I'm going to modify my mold to try to get to work also.

[Steelhead]

18 hours ago, cgolf said:

I know the #1 hook is a no go, but other than the VMC is there a right sized hook commercially available? I have some mini morels that fit the bill, but he only offers th3 standard morel now with the size #1 hook. My sub #1 hooked jigs are in short supply. 
 

I think the Z mans may fit it, but I don’t like the hook material. I like the more flexible like on a ball head jig. Ball head jigs are legit too right? Doesn’t have to be a mushroom head. Honestly the smaller hook would be better for the trout I am currently after. 
 

Only other options I have are 1/16 oz ball heads which definitely have smaller hooks and 1/16 oz fireball jig heads which have a wide gap but super short shank, not sure if these count as the shank is shorter than my gopher heads I have left. 
 

@Bluebasser86 What size hooks do you use on the heads you pour? Says #2 on this thread, but found older thread,2016, that said #1. I was doing a search for the Zman hook size I found that thread. 

https://jadesjigs.com/collections/frontpage

 

I received an order last week from them. Very happy with what I received.  

[ChrisD46]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2020 at 8:32 AM, Dirtyeggroll said:

I'll take it ?

Terrible products - here , let me dispose of them properly for you !