Bail-less

[Mobasser]

When I first joined Bass Resource over two years ago, one of my first post was about bailess spinning reels, and using them for bass fishing. I'm still using an ABU Zebco Cardinal 4, with the bail removed. I bought this reel used, in good shape. The bail was bent, so I removed it. A sharp hacksaw easily cuts the bail off, and a small file removes any burrs or sharp edges near the line roller. Using this reel is all done with your forefinger, and with a little practice, it becomes fast and easy. Pick up the line with your finger as you normally would, lift it off the line roller, and cast. Use your forefinger to hook the line under the roller to start your retrieve. Youve eliminated two steps here, opening the bail, and closing it by hand after the cast. Since I've used this reel, it's become my favourite. The only other thing you might need to do is add some washers to the side of your reel to help balance the rotor, if it feels out of balance. Bailess reels are not really popular with bass fisherman. Some saltwater reels come with no bail. I think Van Steel and Penn still make some. These are expensive, high quality reels for saltwater fishing. I would never recommend cutting the bail off one of your newer, nicer spinning reels, but if you have an older reel that your not using much, you might give it a try. Line twist is not an issue, and the bail less operation is fast and easy to learn. The only real purpose of the bail is to help guide the line onto the line roller. Most all of us close the bail by hand after a cast. By going bailess, you've eliminated the need for the bail. If one of the tackle companies would make a spin reel without a bail, that was lightweight, I would consider buying one. In the meantime, my old Cardinal is still working well. The no bail operation is all good.

[garroyo130]

Are bail-less reels meant to be cast or trolled? 

 

It would seem more time consuming to me to have to find the right spot on the spool to hook the line under every time than just closing the bail.

[rangerjockey]

Back in the day the first thing the Cardinals got was the ol saw. They are still a great reel even by todays standards

[J Francho]

The reason bails were removed from surf casting reels was because it would often pop back, mid cast, often jerking the rod, breaking the line with the shock, or even losing or snapping the rod.  I manually flip the bail and re-seat the line, so I suppose not having one would matter much.  Seating the line on the roller is done without a thought.  The bail does help locating the roller before making a cast.

[MAN]

So the advantage is just less time in between cast? 

[Mobasser]

7 minutes ago, MAN said:

So the advantage is just less time in between cast? 

Maybe for some, but the advantage in the past was to prevent line twist. 

[A-Jay]

I fished bail-less reels for over 20 years.

Full body pendulum casts with a 10-12 ft rod that launched 4 oz bucktails out to ridiculous distances in to the north Atlantic (often at night), were no place for a bail.

A simple, no-look index finger move while reeling, would place the line squarely on the roller for retrieval. 

No bail didn't have any bearing on line twist that I saw. 

I don't feel the need for this in any of my own sweet water applications now.

btw - if one simply hacks the bail off a reel, there is usually a balance problem afterwards.

Casting reels were better suited in many applications.

A-Jay

 

 

[.ghoti.]

9 minutes ago, Mobasser said:

Maybe for some, but the advantage in the past was to prevent line twist. 

You may be preventing loops by removing the bail, but you are not preventing line twist.

[rangerjockey]

The spinning reels of 40 years ago didn't work as well as todays but the old Abu Cardinal was a good one..

Even they would still loop with the bail on..

If you look at the new Caymas boats webpage there are some laying on the deck in one of the pics with the bails cut.

[Mobasser]

51 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

I fished bail-less reels for over 20 years.

Full body pendulum casts with a 10-12 ft rod that launched 4 oz bucktails out to ridiculous distances in to the north Atlantic (often at night), were no place for a bail.

A simple, no-look index finger move while reeling, would place the line squarely on the roller for retrieval. 

No bail didn't have any bearing on line twist that I saw. 

I don't feel the need for this in any of my own sweet water applications now.

btw - if one simply hacks the bail off a reel, there is usually a balance problem afterwards.

Casting reels were better suited in many applications.

A-Jay

 

 

A Jay, as you know, on the older reels, like Mithcell, ABU Cardinal and others we didn't have the option to close the bail by hand. You had to close them with the handle. This created the line twist, and why some guys removed the bails.

But it's true. All spinning reels are prone to line twist, especially with certain lures used

[J Francho]

28 minutes ago, BaitFinesse said:

More time.  You now have to find the d**n line with your finger and pull it up and out of the way of the line roller so you can reach way over to the roller and close it.  This is opposed to just closing the bail by hand and letting the bail move the line into the roller as designed.

Not sure why you have to open and close the roller at all?

[Mobasser]

Just now, J Francho said:

Not sure why you have to open and close the roller at all?

With my bailess reel you dont. That's the point. Finding the line is easy too. Your index finger puts the line on the roller with a slight turn of the handle

[Mobasser]

I'm probably the only guy in the country that uses a bail less reel, but that's ok. My old reel is a smooth old tank, so.Ill use it for now. I just picked up a Shimano Sahara. I won't be cutting the bail off of that one- no way

[J Francho]

Yep.  Still don't know why you have to flip anything.

[Team9nine]

Was never really popular, but back in the 1980s or so you could find the occasional article in Bassmaster and elsewhere about doing this, but you don't hear much about it anymore. That said, a few guys still go this route, among them Ned Kehde who is bail less on all his Midwest Finesse Cardinal reels, and the late Charlie Brewer.

[Mobasser]

1 minute ago, Team9nine said:

Was never really popular, but back in the 1980s or so you could find the occasional article in Bassmaster and elsewhere about doing this, but you don't hear much about it anymore. That said, a few guys still go this route, among them Ned Kehde who is bail less on all his Midwest Finesse Cardinal reels, and the late Charlie Brewer.

Billy Westmoreland also- years ago

4 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Yep.  Still don't know why you have to flip anything.

J Francho, you don't flip anything. I'm sure you understand this. The line roller assembly stays stationary at all times. Your finger does the work

[J Francho]

2 minutes ago, Mobasser said:

J Francho, you don't flip anything. I'm sure you understand this. The line roller assembly stays stationary at all times. Your finger does the work

Trying to explain to people that will never have to worry about it, lol.

[MAN]

I totally get where you are coming from with the bail-less.  I was looking at this concept 5 years ago during some new reel R&D.  My goals were to eliminate total part count, eliminate a common wear mechanism (bail spring),  weight reduction and more sleeker overall look.  After reviewing many that were on the market and their current uses I came to the conclusion while there is something there...its not for mass (at least at this time).  Haibo Industrial out of Ningbo make a line of these in the 3000 and 4000 size currently.  Aside from them ....most are larger for offshore/vertical jigging.  I still think there is something there...but not at the moment.    

[Team9nine]

From a 1977 story detailing how to perform the "surgery." Haven't been able to track down the Bassmaster article yet.

 

[Mobasser]

5 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

From a 1977 story detailing how to perform the "surgery." Haven't been able to track down the Bassmaster article yet.

 

It  also seems like this may have been popular with Tennessee fisherman. Brewer, Westmoreland were two that I know of. I'm sure you've seen the pics of Charlie's original 308 with this mod in his book.

[Mobasser]

1 minute ago, BaitFinesse said:

Do you have to keep tension on the line to keep it seated in the roller when the line is slack? I've seen flouro pop out of the roller and onto the bail wire when jigging and then seat back into the roller when the line is tensioned.  

With flouro probably so. I use only mono on this reel, so I don't have any problems. A soft limber mono works the best. I sometimes take off my spool, and soak it in water for a couple of hours before I use it, if I havnt fished for a few days. That makes the mono.line soften up and easy to use on this reel

[J Francho]

47 minutes ago, BaitFinesse said:

Do you have to keep tension on the line to keep it seated in the roller when the line is slack? I've seen flouro pop out of the roller and onto the bail wire when jigging and then seat back into the roller when the line is tensioned.

No, I don't use spinning reels without bails for bass fishing.  The reel I've ever seen without a bail was a friend's surfcasting rig, and it had 100# braid on it.  

[rangerjockey]

It's easy once you get the hang of it. It takes no longer than closing the bail by hand.. The old Cardinal's still bring a pretty good price... Don't wanna use one ?  don't

[Columbia Craw]

The late Stan Fagerstrom advocated the removal of the bail on his Cardinals.  Cardinals in that era were high end and steelheaders loved them.  It's not a modification I would do on today's reels.