Flipping Stuff

[Quarry Man]

17 hours ago, Logan S said:

If the cover is heavy grass or pads I use 65lb braid, if it's pretty much anything else (rocks, docks, wood, lighter grass, etc) I generally prefer heavy flouro (17 or 20lb)....I know not everyone wants to have multiple rods for it though, so if doing it all on one setup I'd say go with braid.

 

In grass/pads I like using a punch rig (even if not actually punching) or a regular texas rigged bait, they come through the thick grass and pads a bit better than jigs.  For other cover it's sort of a toss up between jigs and texas rigs.  The one time I almost exclusively flip a jig is in clearer water around laydowns, I've always preferred a jig there.  

 

1/2oz is pretty universal and will get you through just about anything until you start seeing sparse matted grass on the surface or bigger pads...You'll want 3/4 at that point.  When its a full mat of grass then you need the bigger 1+oz weights.  You might also want more than 1/2oz if fishing brushy wood since it's a bit more 'grabby' on your bait.  

 

Any craw, creature, or jig should work in general so I'd just flip whatever types of those baits you already like.  Keep in mind that the compact profiles and appendages will squeeze through thicker stuff better, so like a beaver style bait will do better at getting through than something like a rage bug with it's flappy arms .  

 

Other than that, straight-shank, heavy-wire hook and a pegged weight are what I prefer as the final equipment pieces (if not a jig).

 

Since it's already been brought up, I use the terms pitching/flipping interchangeably...Most of the time I'm technically 'pitching' but it's all just flipping to me.

Exactly what I was looking for. Will probably spool my swim jig rod (7'2" MH MF) with 17 lb floro and use it around docks and rocks when need be, use the big stick for grass.

 

I can see why the Texas/punch rig would come through cover better than the standard jig. I am thinking jig around wood, trig/punch in grass

[Mbirdsley]

10 minutes ago, Shimano_1 said:

Only time I fool with braid is if I'm in some nasty cover. Heavy grass or pads type of thing. Rest of the time its 20 lb fluoro. Not real familiar with what type of waters u fish so that would dictate what I would target and the type of line I'd use. I'm sure there's tons of information on YouTube etc from the pros. For the most part if they do it with their livelihood on the line its probably good advice.  Good luck I love flippin a jig

I’m thinking about going to flouro and only using braid in situations like you said.  Flouro casts better imho. Everything is rigged up now though. next year I may swap over 

[Bluebasser86]

I mainly pitch with fluoro or copolymer, unless it's grass, then I use braid. Wood, docks, sparse grass I typically use a 1/4-3/8oz bullet weight or 1/2oz jig. If it's thicker grass I move up to a 1/2oz tungsten weight.

[Catt]

Y'all hear that noise braid makes going through your rod eyes?

 

It makes the same noise going over wood!

 

Wood that has been submerged for years gets soft, braid will cut into it causing hangups.

 

There are many times I'll flip-n-pitch 1/8-1/4 oz weights into holes in grass, many times I'll use a weightless Senko or Fluke.

 

I learned years ago not to let people button hole me into doing things a certain way...now it's called thing outside the box!

[Mike L]

When punching, either by flipping or pitching I use 80# original Power Pro exclusively on a 7’3” H/XF rod, with a 8:1 reel. 

When flipping or pitching to a specific spot in fairly heavy to moderate cover I use 20# Shooter on a 7’ MH/F rod with the same reel. 
 

 

 

 

 

Mike

[bogfrog]

On 3/26/2020 at 8:25 PM, Munkin said:

Not sure why everyone is using such heavy weights unless they are punching. The 5 biggest bass I have caught here in Maryland have all come on 1/2oz jigs or 1/4oz weighted creature baits.

 

Allen 

A lot of times there will be a lot of decaying matter in soft mud under weed beds. A heavier weight rigged in a drop shot style presentation helps to feel the soft bottom better, and by adjusting the distance between the bait and the weight you can present the bait right in front of the fish. I dont normally use more weight than is needed, but if you re throwing into cattails, rice, or rushes with heavy weeds on the surface the minimum weight can be pretty heavy.

14 hours ago, Mike L said:

When punching, either by flipping or pitching I use 80# original Power Pro exclusively on a 7’3” H/XF rod, with a 8:1 reel. 

When flipping or pitching to a specific spot in fairly heavy to moderate cover I use 20# Shooter on a 7’ MH/F rod with the same reel. 
 

 

 

 

 

Mike

You like the fast rod over a mod-fast for punching?

[Hammer 4]

12 minutes ago, bogfrog said:

A lot of times there will be a lot of decaying matter in soft mud under weed beds. A heavier weight rigged in a drop shot style presentation helps to feel the soft bottom better, and by adjusting the distance between the bait and the weight you can present the bait right in front of the fish. I dont normally use more weight than is needed, but if you re throwing into cattails, rice, or rushes with heavy weeds on the surface the minimum weight can be pretty heavy.

You like the fast rod over a mod-fast for punching?

Yup, sometimes the toolies are so thick you could actually walk on them, I keep weights up to 1 1/2 oz for those. If you can't get the bait down to the fish, your wasting your time..

[bogfrog]

12 minutes ago, Hammer 4 said:

Yup, sometimes the toolies are so thick you could actually walk on them, I keep weights up to 1 1/2 oz for those. If you can't get the bait down to the fish, your wasting your time..

I dont think a lot of these guys realize the pigs that hang out in cover so thick you cant paddle a kayak through it. My biggest bass every year come from places sunlight never reaches.

[Hammer 4]

1 minute ago, bogfrog said:

I dont think a lot of these guys realize the pigs that hang out in cover so thick you cant paddle a kayak through it. My biggest bass every year come from places sunlight never reaches.

You may be right about that.

[bogfrog]

Just now, Hammer 4 said:

You may be right about that.

I get a lot of them a foot from the bank in places you have to pole into and pole out of. This is the gray area between fishing being fun or being work. 

[Hammer 4]

Any kind of fishing to me is all fun. I let my Son who is 6'7" 260 lbs do the hard work..lol

[bogfrog]

I quit guiding when it began to feel like a job. Some of my best friends to this day were met guiding, but there were too many that I couldnt wait to see leave my boat, too.

[Mike L]

17 hours ago, bogfrog said:

You like the fast rod over a mod-fast for punching?

Yep

I tried a lighter action rod a few years ago and put it back down. 
I know it’s becoming popular and the reasons seem plausible, but not for me. Punching is my thing, always look to do that before anything else for exactly the reasons you posted earlier and more. 
When I stick her with the Trokars I use she stays stuck. 
I try to get her up and out quick. 
 

 

 

 

Mike

[bogfrog]

Of the guys I fish with they are evenly split between fast and mod fast for punching. On most of the factory rods Ive seen there doesnt seem to be a whole lot of difference between them unless you spend a lot of money. I build my own rods and have a 710" bushido rod I built from a heavy crankbait blank rated to 3 ounces that works great for me, loads hard and will pull stumps. I dont understand why nobody is offering a moderate or mod fast rod with a mag taper and heavy action. (too expensive?) The ones Ive seen are all way too soft. Even the heavy swimbait rods lack the reaction time to punch with. Most guys I talk to arent sure if they like the faster actions, or settle for those actions because thats what they can get. In a perfect world would you prefer a rod that would load a little deeper and generate more power? I never pass up an opportunity to pick a serious puncher's brain!

Thanks!

[Logan S]

13 hours ago, bogfrog said:

Of the guys I fish with they are evenly split between fast and mod fast for punching. On most of the factory rods Ive seen there doesnt seem to be a whole lot of difference between them unless you spend a lot of money. I build my own rods and have a 710" bushido rod I built from a heavy crankbait blank rated to 3 ounces that works great for me, loads hard and will pull stumps. I dont understand why nobody is offering a moderate or mod fast rod with a mag taper and heavy action. (too expensive?) The ones Ive seen are all way too soft. Even the heavy swimbait rods lack the reaction time to punch with. Most guys I talk to arent sure if they like the faster actions, or settle for those actions because thats what they can get. In a perfect world would you prefer a rod that would load a little deeper and generate more power? I never pass up an opportunity to pick a serious puncher's brain!

Thanks!

I think it's a combo of power, taper, and length.  Longer length makes a fast rod a little more forgiving.  My flip and punch rod is a 7'11" Fast taper rated up to 2oz.  Under load it has a deeper flex than you might expect, due to it's length...But when flipping it still acts like a Fast taper.  It behaves like a mod-fast when hooked up in the slop.

 

Longer length gives you power while retaining some flex under load.  It's harder to get that balance in shorter rods IMO.  

 

The same power and taper in like a 7' or 7'3" would probably feel and act like a broomstick.  

[the reel ess]

I always use braid. If you feel you need fluoro every now and then due to visibility in clear water, you can just use a leader of fluoro on a main line of braid. 

[bogfrog]

10 minutes ago, Logan S said:

I think it's a combo of power, taper, and length.  Longer length makes a fast rod a little more forgiving.  My flip and punch rod is a 7'11" Fast taper rated up to 2oz.  Under load it has a deeper flex than you might expect, due to it's length...But when flipping it still acts like a Fast taper.  It behaves like a mod-fast when hooked up in the slop.

 

Longer length gives you power while retaining some flex under load.  It's harder to get that balance in shorter rods IMO.  

 

The same power and taper in like a 7' or 7'3" would probably feel and act like a broomstick.  

Im with you 100% on length....how do you punch with a 7' rod anyway? From what you're describing it sounds like a lot of manufacturers would actually classify this as a mod-fast. Do you know if youre using toray or graphite?

[Logan S]

12 minutes ago, bogfrog said:

Im with you 100% on length....how do you punch with a 7' rod anyway? From what you're describing it sounds like a lot of manufacturers would actually classify this as a mod-fast. Do you know if youre using toray or graphite?

It's a Megabass X4 711, not sure what the specific material is, but I think the X4 was 46 Ton Graphite?  I'd be lying if I said I knew what that truly means though .

 

It definitely acts like a Fast until you put a heavy load on it though, you don't realize it until winching a fish out of the heavy stuff.  

[bogfrog]

Thats the beauty of carbon...fast on the cast and gets more moderate as the load increases. Not sure if that model is all carbon or not, but its definitely a blend at least. My custom is all carbon and performs the same way.

Yep, just checked. Its a carbon hybrid. Graphite cant compete. By using traditional load charts this would be considered a mod fast under full load, but the ratings have changed since toray has been introduced.

Sweet stick, BTW!

[Sam]

On 3/26/2020 at 4:12 PM, Quarry Man said:

Just purchased a Dobyns Champion XP 766Flip and an 8.1:1 Tatula Elite. Not sure if the reel will go on this rod or not, but for simplicity let's say it will.

 

This is a dedicated heavy cover "flipping rod". I have never tried this technique before, but am determined to learn. I live in PA, biggest bass I'll have a crack at is ~ 8.5 lbs (would love to prove myself wrong here). I have picked up a ton of 1/2 oz tungsten flipping weights. I forget if I have any 3/4 oz ons but will order if I don't.

 

I want to know if 20lb floro or 65 lb braid is best. I want to know where to flip. What lures to flip with, any thing I need to buy/have.

Check the rod's line test and bait weight parameters to determine the best line test rating.

 

You can add the low and high parameters together, divide by 2, and you have the optimum line test for that rod.

 

Just make sure your baitcaster or spinning reel can support the line test and bait weight.

 

With the beautiful Tatual Elite baitcaster you don't have to worry about line test and bait weight. But you do regarding your rods.

 

Flipping and pitching are finesse presentations and you will have a fun time with your set up. Now it is time to keep the Bait Monkey happy and start thinking about the Dobyns pitching and flipping sticks along with the Daiwa LT spinning reels.

 

Regarding braid vs. floro, I go with braid ever since I went fishing with a BASS pro and he cleaned my clock using braid on his spinning rigs. Of course he probably would have cleaned my clock if he thew the Banjo Minnow but to watch him work the braid was a privilege I will never forget. In fact, I don't even use a leader with my braid as he proved to me that it is not necessary. And you know what? He is correct.

 

As for what to pitch and flip? Plastics. Shakey head trick worms; Senkos and other stick baits; lizards; finesse worms; Fat Ikas, jigs, and anything plastic. No rules. Throw what you want. I use the Provider jig heads in 1/16 up to 3/16 for my shaky head presentations. Great jig heads and you don't have to worry about pegging or not pegging the weights. Look them up on the Internet.

 

Check out this web page to see all the different types and colors of plastics that are available from Zoom:  http://virginiaguidebaitco.com/ 

 

You will have a good time experimenting until you find that right bait and presentation that gives you the confidence in flipping and pitching. Just use any plastic you wish, or a Shad Rap if you want to go wild.

 

Good luck.

[Quarry Man]

Graphite and Carbon are the same thing essentially

[MN Fisher]

8 minutes ago, Quarry Man said:

Graphite and Carbon are the same thing essentially

More than that - graphite is crystallized cabon. Only difference between graphite and coal is how the atoms are arranged. Up from graphite is diamond - which is also just crystallized carbon...just much more 'compacted'.

[bogfrog]

20 hours ago, Quarry Man said:

Graphite and Carbon are the same thing essentially

Carbon fiber is actually polyacrylonitrile . Its a more and dense material. Im not a chemist, but here is a link that explains it. The same amount of toray versus graphite is several times stronger....or equal strength can be achieved using far less material. While both graphite and toray have carbon as a base element, their structure is not even close.

https://www.torayca.com/en/aboutus/abo_001.html

[basser27]

I mainly flip and pitch with 50lb braid due to 90% of the lakes in my area are choked with milfoil lily pads and other invasive vegetation. In spring and early summer in my area before the grass comes up I highly recommend mono. I use 15lb big game. I just like the overall feel better. Experiment with both and see what you like. 

[.ghoti.]

On 3/30/2020 at 1:17 PM, bogfrog said:

. Do you know if youre using toray or graphite?

What the heck does that mean?