Our throw away society

[OCdockskipper]

As for TV's, it is a tough call, especially larger ones.  Most TV repairs are either minor ( a single part like a power supply) or major, costing at least half of what a new TV would cost.  If you have a 65" TV that is 8 years old, do you really want to spend $400 to repair it and still have technology that is 8 years old when you could get a new TV that has much higher resolution (4K) and has bells & whistles that didn't exist 8 years ago for $600?  Not to mention connectivity issues, try connecting an Apple TV, Nintendo Switch or most new Blu-ray players to an older TV with no HDMI input.  You end up spending money on adapters that make the image worse just so you can use the old TV.

[GReb]

If you don’t have the time and patience to learn and work on items yourself it’s usually cheaper to just go buy a new one. Labor costs are through the roof.

 

Most people these days don’t even want to perform annual maintenance on equipment. They just ride it hard till it burns up and then go to the store. While I’m certainly not that type or person I do understand it some cases. 

[LonnieP]

I try make any repairs myself if I can. With the internet and all the instructional videos on YouTube makes it pretty easy. 2 weeks ago my dryer quit heating. Googled the problem, watched a video on how to take the dryer apart. Bought a new heating element and in less than 2 hours had it fixed. 3 year old Vizio Tv quit working last year. I watched a video , ordered a $90 power board and had that fixed in about 30 minutes. 

[flyfisher]

On 3/26/2020 at 11:38 PM, txchaser said:

I brought this up with a guy who did buying for a large chain store. He agreed, and went on to explain they tried having a high-quality and a cheap one next to each other on the shelf. But they quickly figured out there was very little demand for the high quality one.

 

I had a similar experience recently trying to buy some tools. I just needed channellocks, vice grips, and a crescent wrench. But they are all made in China now, and are not at all what they used to be. I hope the guys that bought Craftsman from Sears pull off their deal - last I heard they were trying to restart it with the quality of the old Craftsman.

Being made in china doesn't mean bad quality.  Also Craftsman is and always has been junk.  Only thing that made them worthwhile was the replacement policy/warranty.  

 

[Scott F]

3 minutes ago, flyfisher said:

Being made in china doesn't mean bad quality.  Also Craftsman is and always has been junk.  Only thing that made them worthwhile was the replacement policy/warranty.  

 

Educate me on what makes Craftsman tools junk. I used almost all Craftsman tools on my job as a service technician for 36 years. I was still using the same hand tools I was given when I started when I retired. Junk tools to me, means they would have worn out or broken soon after they were bought. 

[flyfisher]

I worked at sears for a while and also did construction and for my dad's electrical contractor business and while i worked at Sears i saw stuff come back all the time.  Not so much wrenches but a lot of stripped out ratchet heads, broken screw drivers etc...I was able to buy a pair of the craftsman tin snips and they had the same warranty even after they transitioned to being sears branded as long as you keep the receipt.  

Anyways, craftsman tolerances are not great in my experience but again, you don't care because it is the warranty.  

Craftsman is fine for light use, i use it myself now for some things but if i made a living with my tools, i wouldn't be getting them.  

 

[DitchPanda]

I think this society thing goes both ways...I think it's generational as well but I'm a younger guy and don't believe in throwing things away as opposed to trying to figure out how to fix them. I do agree that it is common in people my age and younger. The counter part to this is we are a computer driven society and have been for a long time now but that doesn't stop people my parents age and over resisting this and not learning even basic computer skills. I think in our society you should be at least marginally proficient at a lot of things. Technology, basic computers skills,trouble shooting of basic mechanical issues.

I will add one thing that blows my mind is i m convinced there is not a single person under 25 in this great country of ours that could change a flat tire. My buddies dad taught me that at 17 when I got my first car.

[txchaser]

On this note, the difference between mac and PC computers - PC's seem to be pretty disposable, at our office they get replaced all the time, even the expensive ones. The macs last a ridiculously long time. Old macbook airs with 4gb ram still going strong. Slow, because they needed more RAM, but still working. I only replaced my old mac because I dropped it on concrete the second time and broke the screen. It survived the first fall with just a dent.

[schplurg]

On 3/28/2020 at 9:13 PM, txchaser said:

On this note, the difference between mac and PC computers - PC's seem to be pretty disposable, at our office they get replaced all the time, even the expensive ones. The macs last a ridiculously long time. Old macbook airs with 4gb ram still going strong. Slow, because they needed more RAM, but still working. I only replaced my old mac because I dropped it on concrete the second time and broke the screen. It survived the first fall with just a dent.

PCs are basically the same as Mac as far as internal hardware goes.

 

The aluminum case may protect a Mac from a fall but there is nothing revolutionary or much different about the components inside. CPUs, memory, disk drives, nothing special. Just a much bigger markup.

 

My older PC is at least 10 years old and still works. My newer one is maybe 6 years old and still fast as heck. Built them myself. One of them runs OSX (Hackintosh) too.

 

[FishTank]

On 4/17/2020 at 9:43 PM, schplurg said:

PCs are basically the same as Mac as far as internal hardware goes.

 

The aluminum case may protect a Mac from a fall but there is nothing revolutionary or much different about the components inside. CPUs, memory, disk drives, nothing special. Just a much bigger markup.

 

My older PC is at least 10 years old and still works. My newer one is maybe 6 years old and still fast as heck. Built them myself. One of them runs OSX (Hackintosh) too.

 

I have worked in printing for about 25 years, most of it on the computer side of things.  I have used both high end Macs and PC's.  They both have their place and I use them as different tools for different jobs.  My personal preference for working on print files are Mac's, the high end models.  They are just better no matter how powerful a PC you have.  I use PC's to process mail for USPS, run daily work correspondence, and anything involving Microsoft programs.  

 

As far as how long they last.....  Most of the Mac's I have used last at least twice as long as PC's.  For instance, I have two Mac Pro's at work one for print files and the other for video.  One is two years old and the other is twelve years old.  I have never had an issue with the two Mac's.   I have replaced my PC's about every two to three years, with only one lasting five.  I have had hard drives go out, video boards, fans, processors/mother boards, and power supplies.  Typically the Mac's I get cost about $3000-$5000 (crazy) and the PC's are usually the highest end Dell Workstation out at the time (about $2000-$3000).  I have also used an Alien Ware laptop (died after 2 years) and my current at home computer is a Mac Book Pro from 2014 (everything original).  

[DanielG]

I started driving in '73

The older cars had issues. After about 100k miles you had to think about another one within 30-40k miles for reliability. They rusted out and you needed a new muffler every 3 yrs. Distributors and carbs would wear and things would run rough. You needed to stay on top of them.

 

New cars have lots of electronics and metering of the engines. They are so, so much better. Where older cars had issues and at 100k miles things began to get shady, newer hit 100k miles and they go at least double that mileage. I've got an f150. no repairs. Same brakes and tires. 85k miles on it. My older cars were always a work in progress.

 

TV's. My old Sony's would last awhile but begin to get fuzzy over time. Don't get me going about the real old tube sets. We owned a tube tester to keep them going.

My 60" flat screen Sony is five years old now and doesn't seem like it can be killed. When it goes, 6 yrs, 10 yrs, whatever, I'll replace it. Yes throw it away, but it didn't give me headaches like older ones did.

 

I'm typing this on a 2011 27" imac. Never a hiccup and unlike older computers that maxed out and seemed over the hill in two years, this one is still much faster than I'll ever need and I do video editing types of things too.

 

The appliances are another story. To make them comply with energy efficiency they've had to compromise. i.e. refrigerators. They put in small compressors to take less electricity. Thing is they are underpowered and take a beating. The reason why when you first turn on a fridge you need to set the temperature incrementally so that you don't tax it.

 

My snowblower is 19 yrs old. Oil changes that's it. Pretty much same with the mower, etc.

 

I like the new stuff. The old days weren't as good as far as reliability and longevity was concerned. I wouldn't want to go back, it was a lot of work.

[jimmyjoe]

10 minutes ago, DanielG said:

. I wouldn't want to go back, it was a lot of work.

 

   Starting a John Deere "B".

   Changing oil and spark plugs on a Dodge flathead every time you turn around.

   Keeping leather shoes resoled.

   Kitchen knives that would take an edge almost instantly ..... and get dull just as fast.

   Windows that would frost over in winter.

   Washtubs with a wringer in-between. Guess who ran the plunger?  ?

   Chopping and splitting wood .... without a hydraulic splitter.

   Pumphouses that froze up in winter.

   Ever get a DC-3 ready for starting? A cup of oil out of the bottom cylinder.

   And I don't care what anyone says, anywhere or anytime. The greatest invention of all time is the flush toilet. No more cleaning out outhouses in spring.   ???

 

   Great memories, but you're right; I wouldn't want to go back.         jj

  

  

  

 

  

[slonezp]

A lot of it is dollars and cents. If a person doesn't have the knowledge, skill, or tools to diagnose and/or make a repair, sometimes it's just easier to purchase new. Where's the logic to pay a service tech $150 to come out and diagnose a $350 clothes washer? and pay another $200 to make the repair?

On 3/28/2020 at 7:27 PM, Scott F said:

Educate me on what makes Craftsman tools junk. I used almost all Craftsman tools on my job as a service technician for 36 years. I was still using the same hand tools I was given when I started when I retired. Junk tools to me, means they would have worn out or broken soon after they were bought. 

As did I. I never had a Craftsman tool break when it was used for its intended purpose. I wore out my fair share of tools. No questions asked warranty and the ability to swap the tool at any Sears store was golden.

[livin2fish]

When the topic "throw away society" is discussed, dehumidifiers come to mind.  I have had 6 in 6 years, only using one at a time.  Two of one brand and 4 of another, all 72 pint models.  Used in a clean environment.  All maintained monthly (filter cleaned and drain hose flushed).  Cost range, $250-$300.  Every one, the compressor quit working. None were made or assembled in the US.  I purchased the first one, and the third one because I changed brands.  The rest were covered under original warranty, no extended warranty.  The last one seems to be the best.  It has run for a little over 2 years.  Cheaper to replace than to send a service person.

[DogBone_384]

On 3/29/2020 at 12:13 AM, txchaser said:

Old macbook airs with 4gb ram still going strong.

A second vote for keeping rather than replacing.

 

My mother has my ‘09 17” Macbook Pro.  I maxed out the RAM and it’s still running like the day I bought it.  I have a ‘14 Macbook Pro with a SSD, which runs nearly as fast as new models.

 

 

[DanielG]

8 hours ago, slonezp said:

I never had a Craftsman tool break when it was used for its intended purpose. I wore out my fair share of tools. No questions asked warranty and the ability to swap the tool at any Sears store was golden.

My craftsman story:

I had a makita grinder. I weld a lot and use one to cut all my metal. It lasted about four years then burned out. Not bad. I ordered another. Less than a  year out of it. I ordered a milwaulkee, about 7 months and it was smoking. I ordered a harbor freight... 20 minutes to burnout, no kidding.

I go to Sears. A craftsman one was on sale. I get it and for $7 a three year no questions asked replacement warranty. I figure, it will last a year and I'll return it. I'll keep doing that and never have to buy a grinder again. That was eight years ago. The switch has begun to act weirdly but it's still running if I turn it on just right. I can't even imagine the condition the brushes are in after all this time and having cut a lot of steel.

Oh, then there is my Sears 10 gallon air compressor passed down in the family. We got it around 1965 or so. I was a kid.

 

My shop doesn't have much other Craftsman stuff. Bosch, Dewalt, etc. But the stuff I've had has been good. Hand tools were always as good as anyone else's. 

[PourMyOwn]

I have about ten Simplicity tractors from 1973-1984 in vintage. Bought most of them from guys my age who don't know how to work on points ignition systems. My whole collection cost maybe 2500 dollars, and I do everything from snow removal to rototilling with them. It pays to be the son of a maintenance mechanic/welder/fabricator.

[Patrick Reif]

My wife told me the pressure washer wouldn't pump cleaner.  I told her I'd look at it over my weekend.

 

That wasn't fast enough for her so she hopped on youtube and found out how to fix it, broke out the tools and spent half a day getting it up and running to include a tune up.

 

I'm glad I married a farm girl

[Beeno]

All things mentioned about our throw away society can also include food. 
 

[slonezp]

6 hours ago, DanielG said:

My craftsman story:

I had a makita grinder. I weld a lot and use one to cut all my metal. It lasted about four years then burned out. Not bad. I ordered another. Less than a  year out of it. I ordered a milwaulkee, about 7 months and it was smoking. I ordered a harbor freight... 20 minutes to burnout, no kidding.

I go to Sears. A craftsman one was on sale. I get it and for $7 a three year no questions asked replacement warranty. I figure, it will last a year and I'll return it. I'll keep doing that and never have to buy a grinder again. That was eight years ago. The switch has begun to act weirdly but it's still running if I turn it on just right. I can't even imagine the condition the brushes are in after all this time and having cut a lot of steel.

Oh, then there is my Sears 10 gallon air compressor passed down in the family. We got it around 1965 or so. I was a kid.

 

My shop doesn't have much other Craftsman stuff. Bosch, Dewalt, etc. But the stuff I've had has been good. Hand tools were always as good as anyone else's. 

I still have a number of Milwaukee tools that use brushes. Berlands House of Tools is the only place I can get replacement brushes.

 

Nowadays, if you're going to buy a tool that has an electric motor, you have to shell out cash. Most of the low to mid priced stuff is garbage. 

[TnRiver46]

20 hours ago, Beeno said:

All things mentioned about our throw away society can also include food. 
 

Which is where my business explodes! Most people throw away food, then feed birds and pets outside. It leads to a variety of animal problems. You’d never believe what all I can catch around a compost pile 

[Patrick Reif]

23 hours ago, Beeno said:

All things mentioned about our throw away society can also include food. 
 

I work as a truck driver for a grocery chain with its reach from Delaware to Florida.

When I'm in the back room helping unload the trailer, there are always 3-6 trashcans full of bread, baked chicken, pizza, fresh veggies and fruits that is being thrown away or heading to be made into animal food.

All of it comes from the delis and salad bars.

 

There are 260 stores under the brand and all of them produce a few hundred pounds of "throw away food" daily

 

The managers want to give it to homeless shelters and food banks, but logistics and fear of lawsuits  from potential food poisoning ensures we make it all dog or pig food instead of helping the community by feeding children in need.

 

I personally can't reconcile with the idea, but a sue happy society has caused this. 

[Oregon Native]

Reading all this reminds me of growing up and working on stuff with my dad.  Sad part was for me my mom always having my mom giving my dad projects.....never stopped.  Hardly ever had time for father son stuff....hard one to please.

Sorry....had to vent.

[BassNJake]

On 3/28/2020 at 9:30 PM, DitchPanda said:

I will add one thing that blows my mind is i m convinced there is not a single person under 25 in this great country of ours that could change a flat tire. My buddies dad taught me that at 17 when I got my first car.

My daughter is 17 and she can change a tire.

I bought a small floor jack and mounted it in the trunk to make the job easier.

She had to change her friends tire after a basketball game.

Said there was a crowd of about 10 people watching, boys and girls.

 

To me its a parenting thing - you spend the time to teach and they will learn

 

[DitchPanda]

I'm not saying they aren't capable of changing a tire I'm saying they aren't able. It's ignorance not stupidity and yes a lot of it comes down to how they are raised. Of course I wasn't serious that there isn't anyone that age capable of getting it done more just proving a point. Sharpening a knife...cleaning fish and game...splitting firewood...safely using a firearm...a lot of these thing are going by the wayside. Glad you took the time to teach your daughter some of these basic life skills. I saw a young girl I'm guessing 18 to 20 years old not that long ago who didn't know how to pump gas.