Wow! FLW National Championship Disqualification

[Jim- Indiana]

Wow! .... what a tough call to make! The leaders by nearly 6 lbs in the 3 day tourney, had their final day weight disqualified, because of how one of their fish was caught . They had broken off a fish, and a bit later hooked the line ... pulled it in, and the fish was still on it! Being it was their line and lure, they kept the fish which was determined illegal. The rules state ...."Fishing is defined as having a lure attached to a line and a rod and reel with the rod in hand"

Although they did not say how much their total disqualified weight was, they had averaged 21lbs per day, on the previous days, and only needed 13 -6 to win, and likely did not need the "illegal" fish anyway!  Per the rule definition ...seems likely the officials made the correct call. I know the rules change from tournament circuit to circuit, but a couple of "like" events came to mind. When watching the BPT this past week, the same thing happened to Fletcher Shryock .... his line broke about halfway to the fish, and motor the boat over to grab the line .... by the time he had winded it up, the fish was gone. Both Marty and JT Kenney made the remarks, that had the fish still been on, that it would have counted. I also just watched the 2019 Redcrest, and Zack Birge did the same thing, and was able to score the fish, and not penalized.  Both the BPT and the FLW College Circuit are both owned by Major League fishing, it is reasonable to determine that the disqualified anglers had watched the events, and kept the fish accordingly ....what a tough call!  Having lost 11 grand for being DQ ed in a Super BFL, I know this event will haunt these kids for a long time!  I cannot verify, but I heard they were even crowned the Champs, only to come back a bit later, and take it away!..... I guess rules are rules!

[jbsoonerfan]

That's tough. 

[Jim- Indiana]

A little more info ...first place was listed as a 27,000 boat rig, plus an entry into the 2020 Toyota Series Championship, and a chance to win $200,000 for 1st place.  The disqualified team ended up in 8th place, which paid $ 0

      After a little research .... I will go out on a limb saying that FLW Tournament director "blew" this one.

As far as the violation, of the line not being connected to a rod and reel as the rule states, I think many a bass have been counted over the years, that were "hand lined" in as a result of the line breaking at or in the reel. Even if determined a violation, the penalty assessed is at the discretion of the director, in which he has several options. Being it not was a flagrant or known violation, the more appropriate penalty should have been to eliminate the largest fish in the bag. Assuming they had 20lbs, and the largest fish was less than 6lb 7oz, they still would have won! The  total amount they originally weighed is unknown at this time.

 

[Chunk_Chaser]

I agree 100% the tournament director blew this big time!! 

[N Florida Mike]

Seems like they just wouldn’t have counted that one fish . Especially since they obviously told on themselves.  Am I missing something here?

[Jim- Indiana]

6 minutes ago, N Florida Mike said:

Seems like they just wouldn’t have counted that one fish . Especially since they obviously told on themselves.  Am I missing something here?

The only details that I have came from news site, mainly the FLW site. It was the championship round, and someone in the story said there was a camera man onboard. ... so they either mention it themselves to someone, or the camera guy did. Whether it was an infraction or not is likely arguable, I am just saying they got the penalty wrong. Eliminating the largest fish from their creel would have eliminated the weight of the deemed illegal fish, and that was one of the options the tournament director could have made. Granted .... it's over now, and the rules state that the decisions of the tournament director are final.

[OCdockskipper]

I agree it was a blown call, not only the decision to not count the fish, but the size & scope of the punishment.

[Jim- Indiana]

The rules all read the same throughout all of the FLW run circuits, as far as "Fishing is defined as having a lure attached to a line and a rod and reel with the rod in hand" , and I have fished several over the years. I have heard of it frequently happening, and had I hand lined a fish to the boat because of a broken line or reel,  I would have unknowingly kept the fish, and others have as well.With that aside....having them not count the largest fish, would have rid them of any advantage.

[BassNJake]

They snagged a line an hour later so it's not like it just broke off and then they retrieved it instantly like the 2 examples of Fletcher and Zach.

 

This could have been a great moment for McKendree University as another team from that college also won the BASS college event at smith lake.

 

 

[Choporoz]

Knowing little about pro tournaments.....just reading this thread....I think that I like the rule, and it probably should be applied at all times.  While the punishment might be a bit severe, I don't think its wholly inappropriate.  Is there a way to get a ruling on a questionable catch before you cull to a limit?  Or if there were two boaters, can they hold more than a tourny bag awaiting a ruling...like in a separate live well?

 

[J._Bricker]

If as @BassNJake mentioned above the line was “snagged” and hour after the anglers line was broken, then yeah, the TD made the right call in my opinion. If the line was retrieved immediately after the breakage as it was floating next to the boat, it could be argued as a countable fish as it occurred on the same cast. If the angler just released the fish and was happy to get the lure back, he was probably golden.
 

The slippery slope would be if indeed an hour after the original line breakage was the angler fishing for other fish or hoping to snag the broken line and retrieve line, fish, and lure or both. What if this angler snags another line with a fish lost by another angler, would that have counted if it wasn’t hooked inside the mouth.
 

I think the TD may have looked at this similar in principle to snagging bed fish....

[Jim- Indiana]

57 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

Knowing little about pro tournaments.....just reading this thread....I think that I like the rule, and it probably should be applied at all times.  While the punishment might be a bit severe, I don't think its wholly inappropriate.  Is there a way to get a ruling on a questionable catch before you cull to a limit?  Or if there were two boaters, can they hold more than a tourny bag awaiting a ruling...like in a separate live well?

 

I do not think they even questioned it at the time, and if they did, the proper way would be to call the director and get an immediate ruling ...... putting that it indeed was a violation aside, the director had options as to what the penalty should be. Having them eliminate the largest fish from their bag, would have rid them of any advantage of keeping the fish .... that is what I say should have been assessed as a penalty.

[Logan S]

I feel for the team, but the fact it was an hour later and not immediate is the key.  At that point, it's no longer your bait that caught the fish...Even if it's almost a certainty that the line/lure was actually yours originally (same bait/color/location/etc).  Not meant to sound harsh toward the team at all, just thinking about it as a TD would.  

  

7 hours ago, Choporoz said:

Is there a way to get a ruling on a questionable catch before you cull to a limit?

Yep, you call the TD.  Happens all the time, from Pro all the way down to local levels.  I've called the TD and I've been a TD and had people call me.  If there's ever a question, call the TD and get an answer.

 

7 hours ago, Choporoz said:

Or if there were two boaters, can they hold more than a tourny bag awaiting a ruling...like in a separate live well?

Probably, lots of different rules on different trails...Not sure about the FLW College, but I think the most common rule is that you can have over the limit temporarily while waiting on a ruling, but you can make any casts until you cull down to the limit.

 

 

[kdubracing]

On 2/29/2020 at 9:18 AM, Jim- Indiana said:

The rules state ...."Fishing is defined as having a lure attached to a line and a rod and reel with the rod in hand"

 

If this is the rule they are quoting, then what part of this rule was broken? There was a lure attached to the line. The line was attached to the rod and reel. And the rod was in hand. He just happened to hook the other line.

[BassNJake]

Whats stopping someone from tying off a fish and snagging it later?

 

Some rules are made to stop a cheater and the rest of us have to live with it

 

Sure you could have just dropped the largest fish from their catch.

This opens the door for a cheater to do this with more than 1 fish.

 

In my opinion rules have to be set in stone, if you give someone the ability to use their discretion when interpreting a rule. You are opening the door for some favoritism to possibly come into play.

[mheichelbech]

On 3/5/2020 at 2:01 PM, BassNJake said:

Whats stopping someone from tying off a fish and snagging it later?

 

Some rules are made to stop a cheater and the rest of us have to live with it

 

Sure you could have just dropped the largest fish from their catch.

This opens the door for a cheater to do this with more than 1 fish.

 

In my opinion rules have to be set in stone, if you give someone the ability to use their discretion when interpreting a rule. You are opening the door for some favoritism to possibly come into play.

I wonder what would the ruling be if you were throwing a bait where part (buzz bait or spinnerbaits) ran in circles or just with a regular hook you inadvertently  hooked a line with a bass attached and reeled it in.  Is that a scorable catch or need to be released?  Is that akin to snagging?