Long Leaders

[Finessegenics]

Simple question. Does using a long leader line (10 foot +) reduce the advantages of using braid as your mainline? Asking because I like to put really long leaders on my setups. My main reason is to avoid retying a leader after a snag or line fray. Do I lose braid's sensitivity and the no-stretch factor on hook sets when using long leaders? I do this primarily on my spinning setups where I use 10# powerpro connected to 8# mono with a uni to uni knot. 

[garroyo130]

The 10 ft isnt the problem, the mono is 

[S Hovanec]

I start the day out with 18' of fluoro on my braid.  I don't use the braid for it's sensitivity, i use it for it's resistance to twisting.  I use the fluoro because of the water clarity.

[Bird]

Something I've learned and you can experiment for yourself. 

Whenever your leader knot is in the spool, you'll feel it hit the guides. 

BUT a shorter leader where the knot remains outside the spool, you won't feel anything, longer casts.

 

Luckily " usually " when I have to break off, it happens at the hook and not at the Alberto........braid to Flouro here.

[Finessegenics]

1 hour ago, Bird said:

 

Luckily " usually " when I have to break off, it happens at the hook and not at the Alberto........braid to Flouro here.

Oh it’s definitely the same for me. My leader rarely breaks at the connection but it has happened before. So you’re saying the biggest disadvantage of a long leader would be casting distance? What about instances where that’s not really an issue. Ex: Pitching to underwater targets or vertical fishing.

[Bird]

10 minutes ago, Finessegenics said:

Oh it’s definitely the same for me. My leader rarely breaks at the connection but it has happened before. So you’re saying the biggest disadvantage of a long leader would be casting distance? What about instances where that’s not really an issue. Ex: Pitching to underwater targets or vertical fishing.

I did use long leaders before " 20ft" and for the reason you mentioned, re-tieing. 

Never felt like I was compromising the braid either. 

 

Was watching a video of a well known pro fisherman who used shorter leaders to eliminate knot contact......tried it and been doing so ever since. 

 

[jimmyjoe]

   On issues like this, it is by far best to see for yourself instead of tabulating other opinions. When I say "issues like this", I mean issues that you can easily answer for yourself in a definitive manner. Put on an old lure tied direct to braid, and cast out over gravel. Retrieve. Then tie on your long leader and do exactly the same thing. If there's a difference, you'll notice right away, because you're testing the radical two extremes of the same condition. And if you DON'T notice any difference, then you have your answer no matter what other people say, don't you?    ?

   Good luck!       jj

[waymont]

If you use 10’ and feel comfortable with it, stick with it. My 2 cents would be to keep the leader knot to be between the reel and the first guide when in casting position. With this method your leader will be different lengths depending on your rod length. It works out very well for me, and allows for easy casting. The connection knot sails through the guides.

[bunz559]

Nothing wrong with long leaders here. We fish deep waters here in California and there's nothing like a bright yellow line flying by suspended fish in 30-50ft of water. I've used 10, 15, and 20ft leaders before without any hindrance. If nothing at all, it helps you manage your expensive flouro better rather than spooling on an entire 125 yards only to throw everything away once u get down to the last 60 yards. 

[Glaucus]

I make it simple. I measure from the guide closest to the reel all the way to the tip and then I tie; that's my leader.

[moguy1973]

One benefit of long leaders, is when the knot is in the reel when you are fighting a fish next to the boat that's one less knot you have to worry about.

Personally, I'm getting away from leaders as I have not found a benefit of having to tie another line to my braid. My catching rate has not gone down with the type of fishing I do when I go straight braid.

[Finessegenics]

3 hours ago, moguy1973 said:

One benefit of long leaders, is when the knot is in the reel when you are fighting a fish next to the boat that's one less knot you have to worry about.

Personally, I'm getting away from leaders as I have not found a benefit of having to tie another line to my braid. My catching rate has not gone down with the type of fishing I do when I go straight braid.

Just the idea of the hi-vis yellow flying past fish irks me. Even though I mostly fish 1-2 foot visibility. I suppose I can try straight braid and see what happens. By the way, I only use braid on my spinning reels (I don’t fish heavy matted vegetation so no need for it on casting) so these are mostly finesse applications.

[J Francho]

3 hours ago, moguy1973 said:

One benefit of long leaders, is when the knot is in the reel when you are fighting a fish next to the boat that's one less knot you have to worry about.

You could look at this a different way: all the stress is on one knot, and a short bit of line, as opposed to two knots, and more line carrying the burden.  I'm not sure which is correct, though.

[Brad Reid]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

You could look at this a different way: all the stress is on one knot, and a short bit of line, as opposed to two knots, and more line carrying the burden.  I'm not sure which is correct, though.

J Francho, I liked the other post about one advantage of a longer leader is if its knot is reeled in and wound a few times, it is out of play. Good point. 

 

No, though, to there being any advantage to a shorter piece of leader out versus a longer length of it out. Line length is not an issue, that is, a longer line can support as much hanging weight or force as a shorter one. If you have a 10 feet piece of line and can successfully hang a 25 lbs. barbell plate from it, you can do the same with a 100 feet length of the same. Same force/area.

 

And, the same holds true for one knot still under tensile force versus two. Having a leader knot reeled up on a spool and out of play does't change the pressures on the knot down at the terminal end holding a lure.

 

Well, to this, let me add . . . ALMOST.  J Francho and others well know that the more line of any sort you have out, the more chances you have for it to have an imperfection or flaw in it. So, "science" assumes perfect, un-flawed line. The reality is often different.

 

And, same for knots. While not having one knot exposed doesn't take any pressure off another, if you have two knots under the same pressure, you have two weak points instead of one.

 

A knot is always the weakest point in a line . . . again, unless the line has a weak spot in it.

 

What? Lab results versus real time "on the water" results I think.

 

Brad

 

[J Francho]

2 minutes ago, Brad Reid said:

What? Lab results versus real time "on the water" results I think.

My float rigs for steelhead, brown trout, and salmon often contain at lest five knots, sometimes a couple more.  Main line is usually 8#, and no higher than 12#.  Final leader strength is usually 8#, and as low as 4#.  I'm thinking that if the number of knots, length of the leader/main line out, the umpteen pinch on weights that supposedly nick the line, and faulty swivels, not to mention the toothpick I use to peg the bead to the leader, was a problem, it would show up here, where the fish are mostly over 10 lbs.  

 

Bottom line, and I've preached this forever: take your time and tie good knots.  Then test them.  Retie them frequently.

 

I will say this, your 25# static weight example doesn't replicate an instantaneous stress, like on a hook set.  Is there a difference?  I'm not sure.

[Brad Reid]

20 hours ago, J Francho said:

My float rigs for steelhead, brown trout, and salmon often contain at lest five knots, sometimes a couple more.  Main line is usually 8#, and no higher than 12#.  Final leader strength is usually 8#, and as low as 4#.  I'm thinking that if the number of knots, length of the leader/main line out, the umpteen pinch on weights that supposedly nick the line, and faulty swivels, not to mention the toothpick I use to peg the bead to the leader, was a problem, it would show up here, where the fish are mostly over 10 lbs.  

 

Bottom line, and I've preached this forever: take your time and tie good knots.  Then test them.  Retie them frequently.

 

I will say this, your 25# static weight example doesn't replicate an instantaneous stress, like on a hook set.  Is there a difference?  I'm not sure.

Right, J Francho, good knots tied correctly . . . always best. And, the more knots in a "system," the more chances of a failure so all the more care required. And, the more line out, the more likely to experience an imperfection in it.

 

Let's see. Instantaneous response vs static weight. Your point, again, is correct.

 

Imagine two men, same weight, with nooses around their necks being hanged, same rope size tied using the same knots around their necks. They drop the floor out from underneath them, one man though has a 20 ft rope tied on and drops that far, the other man a 5 ft rope so he drops less far. F = MA. Different forces acting on the ropes owing to the length of the fall, the longer rope under more force.

 

Same for setting a hook to the extent different lengths of line out, or stiffness of the rods and more act on how much actual force the line is exposed to. 

 

Brad

[moguy1973]

23 hours ago, Finessegenics said:

Just the idea of the hi-vis yellow flying past fish irks me. Even though I mostly fish 1-2 foot visibility. I suppose I can try straight braid and see what happens. By the way, I only use braid on my spinning reels (I don’t fish heavy matted vegetation so no need for it on casting) so these are mostly finesse applications.

I can see needing a leader on a hi-vis main line.  I typically use the dark green or black braids so not as much of an issue there.

[soflabasser]

I often use long mono leaders when I need the extra abrasion resistance since some of the areas I fish are rocky, have man made structure, etc.