All around smallmouth spinning build.

[Bdnoble84]

I am looking to get into rod building. For my first build I want to build a versatile small stream smallie rod that is my go to when I’m only carrying 1 rod. Rather not get super long, 6’8” would be max with 6’3 to 6’6 ideal. What I want it to work with will range from neds and finesse jigs and dropshot/ wacky to dt6s and #8 x-raps. Majority of the time it will see some sort of hairjig or Ned or finesse jig. This makes me want to lean towards a ml Xf type blank that starts at 1/8 or 3/16. But I do want enough rod to not overload it if I slap on a crank bait or smaller spinner bait. Feel is probably the most important handling characteristic for me. One last thing, I don’t want to break the bank on the blank. 50-60 would be a good ballpark

[spoonplugger1]

MHX 752XF-MHX, Angler's Workshop close by has them.

[Bdnoble84]

I’ll check em out on mudhole

 

[Bdnoble84]

14 hours ago, Bdnoble84 said:

 

Looks like a good choice, thanks. I’m not sure what To do for rod guides. I know I don’t want to skimp.  But I’m also not sure on sizes, designation. I see a eye chart I’ll refer to that. What eye would you all go with for a light, responsive rod that doesn’t break the bank

[spoonplugger1]

8 - 10 years ago Hunter McKamey, one of the guys on the Mudhole rod building videos and a tournament angler,  built a 6 ft. medium power smallmouth spinning rod using the specs from custom spinning rod expert Pat Vinzant. He already had a standard built version to compare it to. He built it with a first guide from the reel being a high framed 10 mm, followed by an 8 mm "V" frame. followed by a 6mm fly, than 3 mm to the micro tip. Reel used was a Shimano 2500. Using light braid with an 8 lb. Fluorocarbon top shot long enough to need to be spooled on the reel he easily out cast the standard build sporting 8 lb. mono, or braid and it matched the casting distance using the same reel and mono.

Not really something new, my 30 + yr. old 12 ft. 3 piece, European match rod rated for 2 to 8 lb. line has a starting guide of 10 mm, going down the 4mm at the tip, it casts offerings into next week. It wasn't new tech when that rod was built. It has a Shimano 2000 with 8 lb. mono on it and I've used it to cast hardware to trout on 4 lb. like 1/6 oz Acme Kastmasters when I have a big flat in front of me to cast past, and as my first steelhead float rod, before there was such a thing.

I have the specs and distance from reel of Hunter's build if you're interested.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Since you’re new try the AmTac Microwave guides. No brainer setup and casts great with variety of reels. 

[spoonplugger1]

Delaware gave you a good choice also, on the steelhead rods I've used that system on, the guide train weighed exactly half what a conventional guide train would have, but I use far more of the small light running guides at the tip than your build would have because of the rod length.

 

[Bdnoble84]

12 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Since you’re new try the AmTac Microwave guides. No brainer setup and casts great with variety of reels. 

 

15 minutes ago, spoonplugger1 said:

Delaware gave you a good choice also, on the steelhead rods I've used that system on, the guide train weighed exactly half what a conventional guide train would have, but I use far more of the small light running guides at the tip than your build would have because of the rod length.

 

Thanks, I’ve seen those, seem interesting. Spoonplugger, I’d be very interested in knowing more about the setup you mentioned. This is all new to me, so I’ll take any info I can get

[spoonplugger1]

Bdnoble,

Do something for me first, you you have a casting rod, install a spinning  reel with the line your going to use on it and go do some lawn casting. I bet it worked better than you expected, it's our worst case scenario we have been taught, low and small guides. The guides used in this design are not low framed like your casting rod.

Guide sizes have dropped over the last decades, wasn't long ago the smallest guide you would see on any rod was at least a 7, or 8, the first guide from the reel was a 30 mm, or bigger on spinning rods, what size are they now? What size are they doing now? 16mm - 20mm the same size an height Gary Loomis was putting on his light powered steelhead rods 40 years ago, with 4 mm guides on the tip.

Then Berkeley came out with the Series One rods back in the late 80's, people horse laughed them till they actually tried them, they had these little 5 and 6 mm guides on them, starting with a 10 mm stripping guide on the casting rods, even the heavier powered ones. After enough people got their butt handed to them by these silly rods that were so light and handy, the industry changed virtually over night to the little tip guides that all before couldn't believe would work.

Now we have seen another evolution, this is new to the US, but not to the rest of the angling world, they have been using them for decades. Some custom builders noticed these little guides in a Batson display and the international catalogs and asked Batson to import some for them to try, sizes down to 2 mm with ceramic rings. the rest is history, they used them, liked them, won some money in tournaments using them, and then sold custom rods to the other tournament anglers. That was over 10 years ago I believe.

Some thoughts, everyone wants the lightest most sensitive best balanced rod, one 6 mm guide weighs the same as 6 of the 3 mm guides. If the guides are durable enough? They are. If they don't snag up as much as the bigger guides in your rod box? They don't. if they are cheaper? They are. If they don't get tip tangles with braid? Mine never have. I could go on and on.

Just like before, people have reasons to never try something new, even if they can just tape on a pair of guides and try them out without ever having the permanently wrap them on and finish the rod. Why does the rest of the world have to have a better, lighter, better balanced rod than folks in the US? Why are we happy with the status quo like the 80's before the last change? When is a rod built just good enough, ok? Why is modulus the only gauge for a good rod?

[Bdnoble84]

I have a couple rods with micro guides I get the concept fully. Only issue I have is I’m a braid to leader guy. So I have to get my fg knot perfect to maximize the benefits. I am interested in the lightest, smallest guides I can go with without breaking the bank.

I.m looking to keep this rod build under 100 because I have to buy the rod building epoxy, line etc still

So I think I follow what you are saying, that feel isn’t all about the rod, and if you are on a budget, you can make gains by paying attention to the fine details

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

You can achieve similar results to the microwave by using PacBay Minima match guides 20/10/5 then low 5 runners to a Fuji BFAT 5.5. Super light performance on a budget. Space the stripper 20” from reel face choker 20” from there and bullseye the reduction guides in between. 

[Bdnoble84]

34 minutes ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

You can achieve similar results to the microwave by using PacBay Minima match guides 20/10/5 then low 5 runners to a Fuji BFAT 5.5. Super light performance on a budget. Space the stripper 20” from reel face choker 20” from there and bullseye the reduction guides in between. 

Thank you, I’ll look into that. I need to research the terms as I’m not sure what stripper guides, reduction guides etc, are. Have my guesses but I’d like to verify them

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Stripper is first guide from reel, next are reduction guides (in this layout 2) choker is first running guide the rest are runners then the tip top. Match guides are extra high frames. 

[Bdnoble84]

Gotcha, that makes sense

[Alex from GA]

I know I'm a little late but couldn't help but comment.  I've built 2 similar rods with a Rainshadow Immortal walleye 6'2" IMMWS62MXF.  They're for 6-15 lb line and very sensitive.  I used Pac Bay Mimima guides for their light weight and a spit cork reel seat.  I made the rods for my kayak but find myself using them more and more in the boat.  The new Mudhole SSR guides are about the same as the Minimas so there won't be a difference.  16-10-8-5555 are the guides.  Weighs less than 3 oz and with a light reel the whole setup is less than 10 oz.

[Munkin]

Search KR concept on YouTube and watch the video Fuji did about line management. 

 

Allen 

[haggard]

I don't know much about details of custom builds, but I'd say a 6'6 to 6'9 ML/F or ML/XF is a great general purpose foundation for smallies on a finesse spinning setup.