LMH For Dummies

[Corey T]

Could someone explain a light-medium-heavy to me? I don’t get it at all. I’m looking at Kistler for reference. 

[WRB]

Bass fishing rods have their own defination that differs from other fish species, no standard exist between rod builders.

Power is listed as light to heavy and subjective. Action is a rating of how the rod bends or flexes from tip down to the guide next to the reel.

To establish a power valve light would be the weakest, medium light, medium, medium heavy, heavy and Xheavy progressing in lifting power. For sake or argument light lifts 1 pound of weight before bottoms out; medium light 2 lbs, medium 3 lbs increasing 1 pound per power rating to 6 lbs for Xheavy.

Action; moderate generally refers to a parabolic bend or the rod flexes evenly from tip to  1st giude, X fast bend faster from tip down to about 1/8 the rod length before the rest of the rod started to bend, fast about 1/4 down, fast being the most popular with bass anglers.

Everything above is up to each anglers interpretation.

Tom

 

[Corey T]

14 minutes ago, WRB said:

Bass fishing rods have their own defination that differs from other fish species, no standard exist between rod builders.

Power is listed as light to heavy and subjective. Action is a rating of how the rod bends or flexes from tip down to the guide next to the reel.

To establish a power valve light would be the weakest, medium light, medium, medium heavy, heavy and Xheavy progressing in lifting power. For sake or argument light lifts 1 pound of weight before bottoms out; medium light 2 lbs, medium 3 lbs increasing 1 pound per power rating to 6 lbs for Xheavy.

Action; moderate generally refers to a parabolic bend or the rod flexes evenly from tip to  1st giude, X fast bend faster from tip down to about 1/8 the rod length before the rest of the rod started to bend, fast about 1/4 down, fast being the most popular with bass anglers.

Everything above is up to each anglers interpretation.

Tom

 

Thanks Tom! I hadn’t ever had it explained that way so that does help my overall comprehension but I wasn’t clear enough with my question so stay with me here...

 

Kistler has the following options:

 

2: M Medium

3: LMH Light-Medium-Heavy

4: MH Medium-Heavy

5: H Heavy

 

So... I get a Medium Light or a Medium Heavy... the idea is that you are in between. But what in the world is a light-medium-heavy?

 

Related: When I see people saying that they have a Dobyns### or whatever the make... does that number just mean the length followed by the rod power in numbers? So a medium 7’2” rod would be referenced as a 722? I feel like I am missing something here. 

[WRB]

1 hour ago, Midwest Big Bass said:

Thanks Tom! I hadn’t ever had it explained that way so that does help my overall comprehension but I wasn’t clear enough with my question so stay with me here...

 

Kistler has the following options:

 

2: M Medium

3: LMH Light-Medium-Heavy

4: MH Medium-Heavy

5: H Heavy

 

So... I get a Medium Light or a Medium Heavy... the idea is that you are in between. But what in the world is a light-medium-heavy?

 

Related: When I see people saying that they have a Dobyns### or whatever the make... does that number just mean the length followed by the rod power in numbers? So a medium 7’2” rod would be referenced as a 722? I feel like I am missing something here. 

72 would be 7' 2" and 722 is 7' 2" and 2 power, 2 power being medium light.

I have no idea what Kistler rating LMH is? 

Tom

PS, drop the L and you have MH 

[jimmyjoe]

   Some manufacturers try to tell their customers that a rod is kinda in-between, and use odd language. LMH is supposed to be light medium heavy, or on the lighter side of medium heavy. Usually, this language rates the rod in comparison to that same manufacturers other rods, so LMH is in comparison to that same line of rods, not some other brand of rods. Some lines use a "+" sign, like M/F+. This means the rods has a little more "oomph" than a M/F, but not enough to make it a valid MH/F.     jj

[MN Fisher]

What I would do is ignore the 'names' given and concentrate on the actual numbers.

 

Rods are rated for a lure-weight range, and do their best casting of lures close to the middle of that range, do well in the middle third, and well-usable for the two 'end' thirds.

A rod rated 1/8oz to 1/2oz (Diawa Aird-X 701MLFS/Dobyns 702SF (Medium-Light)) shines at about 5/16oz and does well from 3/16 to 3/8.

A rod rated 1/4oz to 1oz (Diawa Aird-X 701MHFB (Medium-Heavy)/Dobyns Fury 704C (Heavy)) shines at about 5/8oz and does well from 3/8 to 3/4.

 

Note on that second example - one manufacturer calls it a Medium-Heavy, the other calls it a Heavy - but the lure ratings are the same. That's why the words don't matter as much as the actual numbers.

 

Remember that for things like bladed jigs (Spinners/Chatters/Buzzbaits) the weight listed is only for the head...add the hook, skirt, blades and any trailer to that. A 1/2oz Spinner will end up weighing 5/8 or a bit more when all is said-and-done.

 

So, ignore the 'words' and concentrate on the actual numbers.

[Dwight Hottle]

I think it has been explained pretty well. The light medium heavy is a 3 power rod in between the 2 power medium & the 4 power MH. It is rated for 1/4 to 3/4 oz baits but according to Trey it will handle 1 oz baits with no problem. I bought a LEXF-3MH-70 Zbone to use with fluoro or copoly for jerk baits including 1 ounce baits. Trey told me it would be an excellent stick for that purpose. It has been a lot of fun to use. I also have the ZB4MH73 which is rated modified fast another confusing description. I think Kistler rates their rods as best they can to describe any deviation from the conventional ratings. If you are ever in doubt just call Trey and let him explain the differences. It starts to make sense after you do a little research. Kistler does have some unique actions because of the source for the blanks from NorthFork Composites. 

[FryDog62]

I think easier to understand is how Daiwa or ALX does it:

 

•Daiwa Ehrler Rod is a Medium/Medium Heavy.  Easy to determine its between a Medium and a Medium Heavy

•ALX Toadface is a Medium Heavy + so again one can infer its a little heavier action than a MH but not a Heavy. 
 

I agree with the OP that a LMH could mean a lot of confusing variations... first time I saw it was like “what?”

[Mjmj]

I have 2 of these rods. They are excellent  rods for anything 3/16 to 3/8. I had a g lommis nrx 503 and sold it to buy my second helium 3 lmh. If you are planning on fishing 3/8 and above go with the mh

[Corey T]

1 hour ago, Dwight Hottle said:

I think it has been explained pretty well. The light medium heavy is a 3 power rod in between the 2 power medium & the 4 power MH. It is rated for 1/4 to 3/4 oz baits but according to Trey it will handle 1 oz baits with no problem. I bought a LEXF-3MH-70 Zbone to use with fluoro or copoly for jerk baits including 1 ounce baits. Trey told me it would be an excellent stick for that purpose. It has been a lot of fun to use. I also have the ZB4MH73 which rated modified fast another confusing description. I think Kistler rates their rods as best they can to describe any deviation from the conventional ratings. If you are ever in doubt just call Trey and let him explain the differences. It starts to make sense after you do a little research. Kistler does have some unique actions because of the source for the blanks from NorthFork Composites. 

I’ve heard really great things about both the product and the customer service. I had just never seen it written that way. 

 

1 hour ago, FryDog62 said:

I think easier to understand is how Daiwa or ALX does it:

 

•Daiwa Ehrler Rod is a Medium/Medium Heavy.  Easy to determine its between a Medium and a Medium Heavy

•ALX Toadface is a Medium Heavy + so again one can infer its a little heavier action than a MH but not a Heavy. 
 

I agree with the OP that a LMH could mean a lot of confusing variations... first time I saw it was like “what?”

Those are perfect examples of what I have seen. I didn’t want to make an assumption about Kistler’s system so I asked.  Questioning if this was some hybrid I wasn’t aware of.  
 

1 hour ago, Mjmj said:

I have 2 of these rods. They are excellent  rods for anything 3/16 to 3/8. I had a g lommis nrx 503 and sold it to buy my second helium 3 lmh. If you are planning on fishing 3/8 and above go with the mh

 

Good advice, thanks. 
 

[Deeare]

11 hours ago, Midwest Big Bass said:

Could someone explain a light-medium-heavy to me? I don’t get it at all. I’m looking at Kistler for reference. 

Kistler is having a 35% off sale if you buy 2 rods 

[Corey T]

23 minutes ago, Deeare said:

Kistler is having a 35% off sale if you buy 2 rods 

Is there a code for this? I saw the Argon sale but nothing on the 35%... thanks!

[Deeare]

10 hours ago, Midwest Big Bass said:

Is there a code for this? I saw the Argon sale but nothing on the 35%... thanks!

2RODBONUS

 

sign up for their mailing list.   They have sales all the time.  

[DogBone_384]

I own two Kistler LMH’s. I see them as a MH with a soft tip: very sensitive with a lot of backbone.

 

They’re both mod-fast actions. I use them for soft swim-baits and med/large crankbaits.

[txchaser]

 

11 hours ago, DogBone_384 said:

I own two Kistler LMH’s. I see them as a MH with a soft tip: very sensitive with a lot of backbone.

 

They’re both mod-fast actions. I use them for soft swim-baits and med/large crankbaits.

There's also an XF LMH. I'll be fishing the helium LMH/tat sv and the daiwa LMH/tat sv side by side tomorrow and will have some comparison to post. From looking at the daiwa I think is a slower tip; probably a little more forgiving on the low end. It is rated to 1/8, which I find hard to believe... I'll probably tie a Ned on it for grins and see how it does a 1/4 (the actual TRD + head weight). Line on the Ehrler will be slightly smaller (tatsu .285 vs sufix advance .305).

 

Senko and Fat Ika weight baits cast really well on the helium LMH, for what it's worth. 

 

[Corey T]

27 minutes ago, txchaser said:

 

There's also an XF LMH. I'll be fishing the helium LMH/tat sv and the daiwa LMH/tat sv side by side tomorrow and will have some comparison to post. From looking at the daiwa I think is a slower tip; probably a little more forgiving on the low end. It is rated to 1/8, which I find hard to believe... I'll probably tie a Ned on it for grins and see how it does a 1/4 (the actual TRD + head weight). Line on the Ehrler will be slightly smaller (tatsu .285 vs sufix advance .305).

 

Senko and Fat Ika weight baits cast really well on the helium LMH, for what it's worth. 

 

I would be very interested to hear how this goes as both are on my short list for a 20tat SVTW.

[Corey T]

On 2/16/2020 at 6:53 PM, txchaser said:

 

There's also an XF LMH. I'll be fishing the helium LMH/tat sv and the daiwa LMH/tat sv side by side tomorrow and will have some comparison to post. From looking at the daiwa I think is a slower tip; probably a little more forgiving on the low end. It is rated to 1/8, which I find hard to believe... I'll probably tie a Ned on it for grins and see how it does a 1/4 (the actual TRD + head weight). Line on the Ehrler will be slightly smaller (tatsu .285 vs sufix advance .305).

 

Senko and Fat Ika weight baits cast really well on the helium LMH, for what it's worth. 

 

Did you get into anything good today txchaser?

[txchaser]

1 hour ago, Midwest Big Bass said:

Did you get into anything good today txchaser?

30+ MPH winds left me and low-visibility water vis left me with not a lot of data for things I'd throw on those rods. Chatterbait bite was on fire though. 

 

Here's what I noticed so far. The ehrler is balanced just at the intersection of the foregrip and the rod, with a Tat SV. Helium about an inch forward of that. Slightly different line types may have been enough to make the difference, although some people do complain about kistler being tip heavy on the balance point, but not in practice. Ehrler tip feels more XF than the helium when casting. And the ehrler does feel more crisp (is that a thing?). When I cast the ehrler my release was always late unless I was really deliberate about it. Distance seemed about the same. Someone more experienced than me could tell you what that means. Couldn't tell much difference on the bottom; they both seemed sensitive as I could feel the senko working through the grass.  Didn't get to the ned. I am pretty sure the ehrler really will throw heavier baits; I get why someone mentioned it as a do-it-all rod. Didn't get to roll cast or sidearm it at all, nearly all overhead. No meaningful difference for me in the reel seat, grip, etc.

 

Net net I think it is going to be a personal preference thing, and for me I'd need more time to pick. They are both nice rods. If you assume that margins are about the same, the helium blank is probably better, and AGS guides are better than whatever fuji's are on the helium. Unless of course daiwa has some proprietary blank tech at that price point that's as good as the north fork. 

 

Iif you forced me to pick, assuming they were around the same price, I'd pick the helium, but that is for three reasons that may not apply to you 1) I have the helium MF and H too, so I have a lot of consistency as I step up in power 2) I really don't like daiwa hook keepers - if you have a texsposed or texas rigged bait you have to push the hook out, or pull it back through, because the keeper is closed. This isn't a dealbreaker, but I noticed it every time I put the rod down. 3) maybe I'm overly paranoid about this, but I worried a lot about breaking the guides because I had read a few stories about it. Of course there were a bunch of stories about kistler tips breaking and I (crosses fingers) haven't had any kinds of issues like that. I mostly fish from a jon boat, so there's no soft carpet to lay it on.  I really don't want to pick yet though, as I have a hunch the ehrler will outperform in some situations; senko probably isn't the place to look for outperformance as I don't think they get spit much, so you aren't going to miss it with any decent rod. Finess jigs might be an interesting place to look.

 

I'll have it out again next weekend and will post more. 

 

[Gazz]

I don’t know if you’ve already made your choice but I was having this same dilemma a few days ago. After doing some research it looks like a lite-medium-heavy is pretty much a medium/heavy power with moderate/fast action so it has some real backbone and it has a more parabolic action that bends further down the rod. There is a YouTube video of Trey actually explaining the lite-medium-heavy exactly. I was looking to grab an argon while it is on sale to give kistler a try and I was intrigued by the lmh but decided on the medium/fast as I already have a dobyns med/hvy mod/fast. I love the dobyns but I’m still in the building process of my collection so I’m trying to get a little bit of everything. Hopefully this helped somehow. Does anyone else have any experience with the argon? I know it’s not the helium or z bone but it was right in my range and I’ve heard great things about kistler. 

[txchaser]

 

The explanation was really helpful in explaining the difference between the ehrler and the helium LMH. I think they are accomplishing the same thing, just different ways. 

[Gazz]

Yeah chaser that is the video I came across which led me to check the specs on each rod and the only difference between the MH and LMH is the mod/fast action. 

[txchaser]

Now that I've had the Ehrler on the water for a while, my pick goes to the Helium. I move my rods around a lot, and I was a bit paranoid about breaking a guide on it. Apparently not paranoid enough... broke a guide. PITA to get it fixed. 

I'd feel differently about it if I was storing it in a rod locker. Will keep fishing it after it is fixed to see if there is a bait or a presentation where it 'comes alive'.

 

[J Francho]

Jumbo shrimp?

[Dens228]

One of the reasons I like to stick to one rod manufacturer is due to the difference in ratings between them. 

If I like a MH/Fast I want my next one to behave the same way.  

One company's MH may be another company's heavy.  

[MN Fisher]

1 hour ago, Dens228 said:

One of the reasons I like to stick to one rod manufacturer is due to the difference in ratings between them. 

If I like a MH/Fast I want my next one to behave the same way.  

One company's MH may be another company's heavy.  

I see this between my Diawa Aird-Xs and the Dobyns Furys I'm looking at

Diawa M - Dobyns MH

Diawa MH - Dobyns H

Diawa H - Dobyns Mag-H

 

I just look at the line/lure ratings and ignore the 'words'.