How I reduced breakoffs

[txchaser]

A while back I was struggling with breakoffs on flouro leader and YoZuri co-polymer as a leader, and I've learned a few things here and on the water that might be helpful.

 

Like quite a few new (or re-starting) anglers, the idea of braid to leader was really interesting so I went that route. Lots of breakoffs and it was making me a little nuts as I recalled very rarely breaking off when fishing as a kid. 

 

I made it a little harder on myself by not wanting to use heavy line/leaders, so every mistake was amplified. And even with the drag set correctly I was still having issues. 

 

My breakoffs are extremely rare now, and here's why:

 

1) Clinch knots, palomar knots, do-the-do-youtube knot, stuff from knot wars, etc - ignore it all. San Diego Jam knot is pretty easy to tie, and for flouro it is meaningfully better than the other knots. I know knot wars had a flouro test way back when and it said use the berkley braid knot. It's a PITA to tie and it's not as good anyway. This is subjective, as I haven't done head to head personally with the specific knot on the specific line, but my starting place was that I was getting the same info from the big bass people here, and a guide that only guides a lake with significant DD potential. I paid attention and got results. You can also solve your knot problem by oversizing your line and throwing 17lb heavy line and making it 12lb line with a marginal knot. Don't do it. 

 

2) I used a snap because I didn't have enough confidence yet in what I was going to throw and I had two rods. Plus I didn't want to retie leaders all day. The snap isn't inherently bad, but I made a critical mistake - I chose a thin wire snap because why would I use a 30lb snap on a 10lb leader. Here's the problem: most of the light snaps use thin diameter wire. Thinner the wire, the more it is like a knife. I think (and there's a decent amount of info to support it) that flouro is really bad on tight bends. So I was bending it tight and jamming a knife edge on it. No wonder it was breaking! Anyway I looked for the smallest snaps I could get that also had larger diameter wire. For presentations where I think the bulk of the snap matters, I use Tactical Anglers micro clips. For a heavier line with something like a chatterbait I'm using P-line technical snaps like this https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/P-Line_Technical_Snap/descpage-TPBB.html - but as I'm getting more rods I'm mostly moving away from snaps.

 

3) I'm sure you've read this, but if you are using flouro, check your line for nicks and abrasions after every fish, and anything snaggy. And any time you think about it. I was shocked at how often I found a nick. Your PB will expose that nick on the line and leave you holding a slack line and wearing a sad face. 

 

4) Ok so this one I learned the hard way, by failing a bunch until I noticed some specific behavior I had. When that fish gets close to the bank or the boat, it's going to make one (or more) last runs trying to get away. Some of you may have an urge to pull back, I know I did. Or to hold the rod dead still so it doesn't move. Don't do either of those. Those two dangly things attached to your chest that you are holding the rod with make great shock absorbers! That last run usually doesn't go far or last long, so use your arms to buffer the shock - just let the fish pull the rod down or out or whatever. Don't overdo it, but don't try to manhandle that fish at the end. 

 

5) Set your drag around 1/3 of the leader test. It will help with a safety net for most of the above.

 

6) My opinion (maybe there's some facts somewhere?) is that flouro is particularly bad with shock loads. Don't yank or snap. And it is made way way worse by being a short length on the end of a long bit of line that doesn't stretch at all. Slack line hookset will ruin your day too. 

 

7) Kind of like #6, if you are on braid to leader, there's no reason at all to try to "rip lips" - you need to move the hook far enough to penetrate, and the fish head far enough to turn it. Maybe to overcome some bow in the braid. The pro and youtuber full body hooksets are on full mono or flouro, and if you do that on braid/leader you run the risk of snapping your line right off. Sure you'll need to do it harder if you are putting a jig hook in the roof of a mouth, but a sweeping hookset on a tightish line will also give you a chance to stop, where a full body hookset won't. 

 

What tips do you have to add? What did you learn the hard way?

[Bluebasser86]

Doesn't matter so much what knot you tie, as long as you tie it right. Lots of good ones out there, but a poorly tied knot is going to fail.

 

 

[islandbass]

Thanks for sharing. I use the Albright but I’ll look into learning the ones you recommended. 

[Hammer 4]

46 minutes ago, Bluebasser86 said:

Doesn't matter so much what knot you tie, as long as you tie it right. Lots of good ones out there, but a poorly tied knot is going to fail.

 

 

 

True..Along with that, I think sometimes folks get in a hurry, and don't tie them properly and wind up having knot failures, especially true with a Palomar knot, and using Fluro..

[jimmyjoe]

11 hours ago, txchaser said:

I made a critical mistake - I chose a thin wire snap

   This is a mistake I've been making.  It'll stop now.

11 hours ago, txchaser said:

check your line for nicks and abrasions

   I had always thought that fluoro was very resistant to nicks and abrasion.  It's not.

11 hours ago, txchaser said:

don't try to manhandle that fish at the end. 

   The bigger they are, the more I tend to do this. I know I shouldn't, but ........

11 hours ago, txchaser said:

flouro is particularly bad with shock loads. Don't yank or snap.

   I didn't know this.

   These things all make sense, supported by things I saw that I couldn't really explain.

   Thank you.      jj

   

[The Bassman]

Seems like real good info for fluoro guys. I fish straight braid (very thin this time of year) with light wire VMC crankbait snaps. Yesterday I foul hooked a fairly large (8-9 lbs.) carp on a #5 Rippin Rap and handled it on 6 lb. braid with no problems. Gotta think that the characteristics of braid might be more compatible (I hope) with these snaps.

[FryDog62]

Good stuff to think about... thanks for posting. 

 

I've changed some things around too.  One is to use heavier mono/fluoro line instead of thinner braid and tie on a leader.  Less knots to fail.  Our only challenge here in the North is the heavy weeds/milfoil.  Only braid cuts through it effectively, but I am using it less and less unless around/in the thicker stuff.  

 

Also as I stated on another thread recently, I changed the knot I use for tying mono/fluoro directly to the hook/lure.  Am now using the 3 tag Grigsby knot.  All due respect to the San Diego Jam knot users... but I have a bias against knots that only pass through the eye once.  I don't have any statistical data, but passing through twice just seems to make sense it would be stronger and less likely to cut like a knife.  

 

Just my .02

[Fishes in trees]

You're never going to eliminate break offs.   If you never lose a jig you ain't fishing where the fish are.  That being said, use good line, check the line every so often, tie good knots is all good advice.

[A-Jay]

Nicely Done @txchaser

 

So Breaking off ~ I  Hate It ! 

I'm not talking about snapping my line because I got hung deep and can't free it - 

Topic here specifically address line failure during a hook set or while fighting a fish. 

Over the years I've done the best I can to eliminate this from ALL of my fishing.

Bites are hard enough to come by, especially from bigger bass, I have no desire to jack up the few I get,

because I am unable to mange my tackle or my technique.

First off, experience is a get teacher - which is another way of saying, jacking this up along the way is part of the process. And I've had a decent amount of that - especially when FC first came out. 

Although I'll not cover it here - having one's gear (rod, reel, & line) match the presentation & conditions can not be over stated. 

This is what works for me. 

 

For starters, the Most Pressure I ever want to apply to a bass, is the hookset.

After the barb(s) are sunk, I 'play' the fish; give line when I need to, take it when I can. 

It's not a race. Reducing drag mid-fight or when a very big fish gets closer to the boat is something I do often on plus size fish.  That sudden burst, surge or leap boat side, has burned me a few times in the past, line may not part but the hooks can certainly pull out. 

 

When I fish braid & a leader, I will use Mono if at all possible.

I will use FC if I 'need to' (insert to get bites) but never under 8 lb test.

Leaders in the 4-6 lb range are ALWAYS mono - I do Not Trust Super light FC - been burned too many times. 

My leader connection knot is always a Uni-to Uni regardless of the leader type or size.  

The number of 'turns' may change but not the knot.

I'll also use a uni knot to secure mono leader to the hook or bait. 

When using FC main line (casting gear) I use a San Diego Jam to secure my baits - that's it; works great.

 

I do lose some fish, they jump off, spit me without me ever seeing them but I almost Never break one off. 

 If line fails, I either; was using gear insufficient for the task, Tied a bad knot, did not re-tie in a timely manner, did not check for frays or nicks, applied too much pressure / or had drag set incorrectly, did not present the bait & set up my rig in a position to fight the fish away from anything that could part my line or perhaps the biggest mistake of - Purchased Bad Line to start with.  All of that is well within my control. 

 

Learning to calm one's emotions during an epic big fish battle can be key.

It's helped me land a few plus sized by-catch fish, on some way undersized tackle.

Most recently was a tank of a Musky on 10lb FC. 

Many bassheads have done this, and it's a great way to learn/realize what you & your tackle are really capable of.

YMMV

A-Jay

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[txchaser]

5 hours ago, FryDog62 said:

All due respect to the San Diego Jam knot users... but I have a bias against knots that only pass through the eye once.

That's a fair point. There's a doubled version of the SDJ that I used to always tie. Then @WRB suggested it is only stronger with a pretty big diameter hook/snap/etc... probably right so I have been trying it as a single unless it's a big hook or jig eye. Nothing of note one way or the other yet. If I recall correctly that's nearly the same as the grigsby knot, but DSDJ passes through one more loop.

 

There's an engineering question in there about whether the load is distributed any differently on multiple passes through the eye vs a single line (normal) vs a doubled line, but don't have the skills or the tools to deliver that kind of answer. 

 

5 hours ago, Fishes in trees said:

You're never going to eliminate break offs.   If you never lose a jig you ain't fishing where the fish are.  That being said, use good line, check the line every so often, tie good knots is all good advice.

I agree! But if I break off a fish on a hookset I have to assume it is my fault. Or if I break off in open water, same deal... I failed at something.

 

4 hours ago, A-Jay said:

Reducing drag mid-fight or when a very big fish gets closer to the boat is something I do often on plus size fish.  That sudden burst, surge or leap boat side, has burned me a few times in the past, line may not part but the hooks can certainly pull out. 

Oh man thanks for bringing this up. This is a really good point. I'm glad I got to re-learn this with your post instead of boatside!

 

 

[WRB]

Knots rarely break inside the knot, they break outside where the knot meets the main line. Impact or sudden loads fail knots not uniform pulling forces like when knots are tested. 

Bass break off a high percentage during the hook set followed by sudden turns and runs near the boat when short lined and loads are maxed.

Tom

[Glenn]

 

[new2BC4bass]

Want to try the San Diego Jam knot, but my Uni knot holds pretty darn well.  Have straightened out jig hooks using braid and this knot.  And I only go thru the eye once, but if a person is worried about that, they can go thru the eye twice.  I am sure there are other knots than these two that also work very well.  Pick one you like and learn to tie it well.

[snake95]

14 hours ago, txchaser said:

whether the load is distributed any differently on multiple passes through the eye vs a single line (normal) vs a doubled line

As an engineer... load is force/area.  Increase area, decrease load where the line contacts the eye.   

 

2 passes = larger x-sectional area, larger contact area against the hook eye.

 

Knots are complex so it isn't exactly that simple, but it has to be a contributing factor.

 

 

[Bankbeater]

When I tie a knot the two things I have learned to do is #1 make sure there is a little friction as possible in the line when I am tightening down the knot, and #2 make sure the knot is good by really pulling the line after the knot is tight.  If there is a problem with the knot it will usually break off while I'm pulling on it.

 

As far as snaps go I look for snaps that are small in size, but not light wire. 

[Hammer 4]

An old habit I got into many, many years ago, was to run my line through the eyelet twice. Not sure if this helps, but for some reason I keep doing it, using uni, or San Diego jam knots. I can say I haven't had a knot failure in a very long time.

[BiteArray]

Great discussion here. Just wanted to add that another important factor is the speed with which a knot can be tied. Time on the water is of utmost importance, and when it comes down to it I'd rather go with a tried-and-true knot that I can reliably tie quickly and tie correctly. Just my two cents!