Losing Teams

[Old Pro]

I conduct a small open team tournament each mounth with an average 14 boats. It is an inexpensive fun tournament for buddies, husband-wife, father son, etc. The problem I have encountered is that two of the teams win first and second and "big bass" almost

every month, (8/10). I tell others that there is nothing I can do as long as they obey rules. This has caused several teams to drop

out as they feel that they have no chance. What are your thoughts on this?

[Choporoz]

Golf and bowling addressed this by handicapping leagues.   If you have such a consistent competitive curve, maybe that's an option to try.   Maybe with time or lbs/inches?

     Or, perhaps change it up by adjusting the prize money somewhat; payout smaller % in top 2-3 slots and spread payout farther down.  Throw in a 'small bass' payout - even if 2% of gross....or put part of the entrance fees into 'door prizes' - or bbq -- If you can make this more about a socially satisfying group, than having consistent sharks won't be as much of a turn-off.

[BassinCNY]

My first thought was just tell them to stop whining and have fun fishing. Then I thought handicap but it might be too difficult to keep track of. I'd go with door prizes and a fun award for last place. A funny hat or something.

[12poundbass]

Maybe I’m old school even though I’m 36 but it would light a fire under my arse and make me work hard to figure out the fish and dethrone the team that always wins. 
 

It sounds like the ones that are leaving need to find a tournament with participation trophies. 

[Tennessee Boy]

Back in my club tournament days,  we always had new guys join who wanted to show the world just how good they were.  When they found out that they were not as good as they thought,  some of them would quit.  The world is full of people like this and I don’t think making life easier for them will change anything.  That said,  it’s your tournament so I see no reason you can’t make a rule that says if you win x number of tournaments in a year,  you can’t fish a tournament again for y months.

[RichF]

I gotta agree with @12poundbass.  My dad and I watch the same few teams consistently beat 30 boat fields in our team trail in upstate NY for 11 years straight.  It never made us wanna quit.  We had a lot of top 5 finishes but could never get over the hump until we started putting more legit practice time in on our waters.  That led to our first win in 2017 and 4 more in the next 6 events we fished, including a championship.

 

It may sound harsh but if you can't handle losing, you shouldn't be tournament fishing.  That being said, I suppose you could always boot the 2 teams that always win (personally not a fan of this idea) to keep the majority around.  It's your club, you can do as you please.      

[fishballer06]

Sounds like every club ever...

 

Two things can happen - 

Everyone quits showing up, eventually the ringers stop showing up because there's no pay out, and then you have no one. 

 

You could change out your payout. Make it so first and second payout goes lower, and you start paying out more places. 

[Choporoz]

@RichF and @12poundbass, I don't disagree with you.....depending on the objectives.

1 hour ago, Old Pro said:

 inexpensive fun tournament for buddies, husband-wife, father son, etc.

sounds more like the director (or the field) places more emphasis on fun, than on competition.  This may not be the same as teaching 10 year olds how to lose and how to be competitive.   I think most areas have room for both kinds of tournaments.  I've done both and both have their place.  I have no problem dialing down the competitive factors if that's what the TD and the field will like best....he may even find that the big sticks enjoy it more if it the field starts enjoying tourny days more.

[Old Pro]

I think the idea of paying out more places is the answer. That way everyone would 

feel they had more of a chance of cashing out.....and the "ringers" might think it 

isn't worth while. The aim of these tournaments is for the enjoyment, good fellowship, 

and to promote a love for this great recreation.... not to get rich!

[jbsoonerfan]

Here's my first thought. If they don't like losing, they should start doing puzzles. Okay, now that I have that out of the way lol. Maybe each week you could set a different target goal weight. One week make it the five biggest. Next week make it the 5 closest to 12 lbs or something. Maybe the next week make it the 3 closest to 10 lbs or the 5 over 14" that weigh the least. Possibly have cards made up of 4 or 5 different scenarios and you draw a card before launch and that is the target or objective for that day. Once a card is drawn it is out till all the cards are used up and you start over. You could still have a BB pot for anyone that wanted in on that. This may make some people feel like they have a chance each week and possibly cull out the guys that only want to weigh their 5 best each week. I haven't heard of any tourneys done like this, it was just an idea to maybe make it fun and interesting while making some feel like they have a chance to win even if by luck. 

[ReedFish]

1 hour ago, Old Pro said:

I think the idea of paying out more places is the answer. That way everyone would 

feel they had more of a chance of cashing out.....and the "ringers" might think it 

isn't worth while. The aim of these tournaments is for the enjoyment, good fellowship, 

and to promote a love for this great recreation.... not to get rich!

Paying out more places, like 1 in every 4 teams that sign up can help this problem.  Same thing happened in our fun weekly night events, but when you are paying out 4 teams with 16 boats there... no one seemed to care as bad.  Also, as long as they are following the rules, can't blame them for showing up and winning.

 

More payouts and spread the money around, also I would get rid of big bass, or make it a small amount.  Typically in these "fun" events the one that gets the big bass will also be near the top.  Perhaps make the Big Bass prize less money or your entry back.  That may give you more money for 3rd place and 4th place...etc.

[Team9nine]

Happens everywhere, eventually. You have to have something to keep the donators coming if you want to keep the pots large. Paying down more places sometimes works, sometimes not. Another option is keep pots/payout the same, but add a random draw after weigh-in for all teams out of the money that day for their entry fee back. 

[scaleface]

Maybe go to a three fish limit .

[Jim- Indiana]

9 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

Maybe I’m old school even though I’m 36 but it would light a fire under my arse and make me work hard to figure out the fish and dethrone the team that always wins. 
 

It sounds like the ones that are leaving need to find a tournament with participation trophies. 

Rick Clunn told me in 77' at Toho, that "you just need to learn how to catch them"  There's no better way to learn, but likely don't learn much if you are whinning! If it's more about fun....I'd pay the entry fee back to half the field, and pay the balance in the top 2 spots.

    If there is an "air" of cheating going on.... all meet somewhere, and pick a mystery lake to fish on .

[Logan S]

You've got a couple talented teams that are participating a lot, that's a good thing.  IMO, it's better to keep the guys that are doing well around and if you end up 'culling' some teams, let it be the from the other end of the leaderboard.  

 

One thing you might try is to promote a sharing/learning attitude...NOT giving out every detail/location/etc, but in a very general sense.  Our club has this philosophy and it has worked very well....During weigh in each angler talks a bit about their day.  Something like, "I got a few on a jerkbait and the rest on a jig, I was targeting main lake points."  It's after the day is over and no one is giving up anything so specific that it would compromise them...But it gives everyone some insight as to what worked that day.  We've found that it really helps newer anglers get their feet under them and it keeps the experienced guys working to stay ahead of the curve - "Rising tide lifts all ships" sort of mentality.  It also gets people talking to each other that might not have otherwise.  It's been a great feature of our club for over 20 years now and one of the big reasons we maintain a large membership base (60ish members annually)

 

IMO at the club/local you need to strike the right balance of fun and competitiveness, too little of either and you'll have people bailing.  I think too many groups try to neuter the competitiveness out of their events in the name of 'fun' - But it ends up backfiring because the competition is a big part of what makes tournaments fun.  

 

Anyway, it could be something you talk to your group about...You have some talented anglers so even just little tidbits from them would probably be good insight for the rest of your group.

[RichF]

I was going to mention your club @Logan S so glad you're weighing in.  You pretty much hit the nail on the head.  

5 hours ago, Jim- Indiana said:

"you just need to learn how to catch them" 

Great wisdom from the legendary Mr. Clunn!

[txchaser]

Ask the teams that are consistently winning to help you figure out how to make a great experience for everyone. Acknowledge that they are consistently better than everyone else and thats why you came to them, they are the only ones with the experience and skills to help solve it. Maybe they end up volunteering to teach, or to mix teams sometimes, or something like that. 

[SC53]

How many places are you paying now?

You should at least be paying 1-2-3 but top 5 is better and what we always did when I ran the club tournaments. The top guys still got the recognition and most money but not as much.

 

Big bass was always a voluntary side pot separate from the tournament entry. This way if people felt they didn’t want to be in it or couldn’t win it they weren’t forced to enter.

 

What lakes are you fishing?

Are they always the same ones? If so, change up the locations so as to give others who may know other lakes a better chance. 

 

Do you have off limits rules and if so what are they?

If these guys are retired or have a work schedule that benefits them being able to pre-fish a lot more than others, maybe adjust the off limits to keep them off the lakes at least a few days before each tournament.

 

Lastly, where is your club in central Florida?  I might be able to help even the field a bit ? 

[Bankbeater]

How are the winning teams handling the backlash when they win? 

If the two winning teams are being horses #$@^%, and bragging about their victories, then you need to rework the payouts so their prize is smaller, and other teams have a chance to win something.

If the two winning teams are being modest about their victories, then you might want to look at getting more members that can keep up with the winners. 

[Jleebesaw]

Same thing happened to a weekly tourny near me. It was thursday nights and like $25 or so. I guess the same dude kept winning it so people quit going.  It sucks because i planned on fishing some of them this year. Ive nevet fished open water tournements, only ice fishing. Ive gotten into bass fishing lately and thiught it would be fun to do some derbs. I just have a 17' tracker boat so i wanted to do some small local ones. The B.A.S.S trail around here looks a bit serious to me. They all have real nice big boats and fish all over the place. I thought a weekly tourny on a local lake would be more fun for me. Less intimidating too!

[Sam]

Well...you could always follow them around to see where they go and mark your map. Don't get close, use binoculars.

 

Otherwise, really nothing you can do other than ban them from you tournaments.

 

I had a friend who passed away and one now who is retired that were banned from tournaments because they kept winning them back in the 80's and 90's. They were very proud to have reached this benchmark in their fishing skills.

 

I know of an individual who supposedly has sunk many brush piles in a creek and only he knows where they are. We have found a few over the years but stopped looking for them and just fish our own way. They guy will either win the tournament or end up in the top 10.

 

That's bass fishing.

 

[Teal]

Whiners need to put on their big boy pants.  If you want to spread the pay out just a little, then do so.  Cant hate on a team for winning.  Others need to step their game up and challenge these guys.  Point blank. They need to man up! Only other things you may can change to add parody,:  If it's one lake, then add a couple lakes.  If it's a long reservoir like my home lakes, mix up the launch points.  If their money spots at 30 miles away, they may not want to ride that far on the boat in a tourney...or they may.   I'd mix it up to make it interesting in the since of fairness and parody, but that is something that should have been going on all along.  Good luck man.  

[Bluebasser86]

Pretty much what happened with our Thursday night tournaments that I put together a few years ago. They started out really fun, had up to 12 boats showing up, usually 6-8. I won a lot of them, I don't feel bad for it, it's a competition and we all pitch our money in to compete knowing we might lose, and I lost plenty too. Teams started quitting because they didn't win often enough. I had planned to stop running them because we'd got to where it was tough to scrape together 3-4 boats each week, but the last one was the "Fish Off" for the pot from the previous year. My buddy and I barely squeaked out a win, didn't have big bass, had it all on video, and got accused of cheating?? We do catch, weigh, release (similar to MLF), but track the biggest 5. I guess the guy that fished with us all year didn't understand that the scales lock the weight in, so when we took our pictures of the fish and we had our hands on the grippers to turn the fish towards the camera, we weren't "pulling down and adding weight". It was a mess, thankfully everyone else in the group realized how stupid of a gripe it was, he left the FB group and blocked me so he must have really felt like he was wronged. The weirdest part, he didn't even weigh a fish, so it's not like it was him that got second or 3rd and would have gotten paid if we had done something to get DQ'd, he just didn't like losing or had a problem with me I guess.

[TnRiver46]

14 hours ago, Bluebasser86 said:

Pretty much what happened with our Thursday night tournaments that I put together a few years ago. They started out really fun, had up to 12 boats showing up, usually 6-8. I won a lot of them, I don't feel bad for it, it's a competition and we all pitch our money in to compete knowing we might lose, and I lost plenty too. Teams started quitting because they didn't win often enough. I had planned to stop running them because we'd got to where it was tough to scrape together 3-4 boats each week, but the last one was the "Fish Off" for the pot from the previous year. My buddy and I barely squeaked out a win, didn't have big bass, had it all on video, and got accused of cheating?? We do catch, weigh, release (similar to MLF), but track the biggest 5. I guess the guy that fished with us all year didn't understand that the scales lock the weight in, so when we took our pictures of the fish and we had our hands on the grippers to turn the fish towards the camera, we weren't "pulling down and adding weight". It was a mess, thankfully everyone else in the group realized how stupid of a gripe it was, he left the FB group and blocked me so he must have really felt like he was wronged. The weirdest part, he didn't even weigh a fish, so it's not like it was him that got second or 3rd and would have gotten paid if we had done something to get DQ'd, he just didn't like losing or had a problem with me I guess.

Maybe a guy that used to live where you work?? Just kidding ! Nobody likes to lose but there’s no sense in fishing tournaments if you literally can’t handle it. 

[Hower08]

I would ask the teams that are whining about not winning to either stop coming if they can't handle loosing or change their attitudes. We fished a club where it was always us or one other team that would win. Non of us are that great just solid anglers that can typically adapt. It got to the point that the guy that was running the club started fudging points so somehow other teams that never won a tournament or won B.B  still won points for the year. He also tried to ghost everyone on plaques and trophys that were due to winners at end of year. That did not end well for him. 

     

      People stopped coming, club quickly consumed itself and disappeared. 

   

     Mix up the lakes, Offer to pay out an extra spot for every 4 or 5 teams that show up. Pay out 2 B.B spots make a tourney where only one type of lure is allowed to be fished. Jig frog crankbait etc.. Hold kids Derby's cook outs etc... Make it to where people want to be involved. Theirs a few benefit tourneys around here that so many people show up  you almost cant believe theirs enough water for everyone to fish but it's for good causes with good payouts and good door prizes that all get donated by local businesses . 

 

       The sky is the limit when trying to attract people to come fish your events. The best and easiest way though is to eliminate the ones with the bad attitudes.