Aluminum Angle Issues

[Quarry Man]

Want to add a casting deck to my smoker craft big fisherman 14. Have all the framing setup. I was planning on using 1/8, but that will add 150 pounds without any decking or other gear, thats a lot. I was told to use 1/16" but it is like 3x as expensive and I can't find it in store. I can frame the whole deck with 150' of 1.5" x 1/8" for $300, still a lot, but I can make it work if need be.

 

 

 I have attached links below to my blueprints: https://imgur.com/a/Smh1aTR

 

I feel like this is too much weight, I wanted to frame it this way because it maximizes spaces as the 17 gal bins sit right next to each other and each hatch lid has 1.5" on each side for support. planning on using 3/8 or 1/2" plywood. is 3/4" on each side gonna be enough support.  im lost here, trying to figure this out long before the build starts

[GreenPig]

I used  2" angle on my deck and have had well over 900 lbs on man meat on it for 5-8 hour bowfishing trips for years. Only myself nowadays fishing and it's solid.

 

[Team9nine]

1.5” and 2” angle (1/8”) throughout and it never failed in the 8 years I had the boat afterwards.

 

[MN Fisher]

1.5"-2" angle should be fine. Under the 2x12 that's the seat base, I use 2" angle as the support. In this pic you can see the corner of it under the work-table to the right. Long as everything is cross-braced, you shouldn't have an issue.

 

[FishinBuck07]

I am with the others here, no need for the tubing, the angle will be just fine.  Besides the tubing will add more weight than you think it will.

[Quarry Man]

I am now in agreement with everyone who is saying angle not tubing. Might be easier to frame with tubing but the hatches actually fit better with angle. Will I need pop or blind rivets? about how many should I get?Would anyone like to see my blueprints?

[redmexican5081]

I would guess aluminum pop rivets would be fine for anything that will be internal to the framing.  Anything going into the hull or that will be exposed to the deck should be a blind rivet so you don't get leaks.

Have you seen any of the build outs with pictures in the tin boat group?  They have massive amounts of information and pictures to help guide you through a deck build.

[Mjmj]

Here is where I would use tubing. Eventually you will want to run wires. Given that most Electronics are run off the starting battery,  it is best to have a easy way to fun the wires from the stern. 

[Quarry Man]

On 1/29/2020 at 5:13 PM, redmexican5081 said:

I would guess aluminum pop rivets would be fine for anything that will be internal to the framing.  Anything going into the hull or that will be exposed to the deck should be a blind rivet so you don't get leaks.

Have you seen any of the build outs with pictures in the tin boat group?  They have massive amounts of information and pictures to help guide you through a deck build.

what is the difference between blind and pop rivets?

[Tim Kelly]

I used 2" 1/8th angle with 18mm ply seems solid.

[SuperDuty]

19 hours ago, Quarry Man said:

what is the difference between blind and pop rivets?

Blind rivets and pop rivets are actually the same thing but people often confuse them. I think what the other person is talking about is using a sealed rivet so it will be water tight. 

[HenryPF]

On 1/26/2020 at 1:33 PM, Quarry Man said:

 I was told to use 1/16" but it is like 3x as expensive and I can't find it in store. I can frame the whole deck with 150' of 1.5" x 1/8" for $300, still a lot, but I can make it work if need be.

 

 

That can't be right,  How is 1/16" 1.5 x 1.5 any more expensive that the same at 1/8" ?

 

Even going by Home Depot prices (which for 96" of 1.5 x 1.5 x .0625 x 19 pieces it is only $385. And those prices are pretty horrible vs. going to a local metal supply store (or online for that matter).

 

I built my boat with 1/8" thick stuff which was way overboard for the boat but I made sure you could step anywhere and it wouldn't flex at all. So I think you would be correct that 1/16" is more than enough. Also, invest in a hydralic pop rivet gun or the cordless drill adapter as your hands will love you unless you got the bucks for a cordless one.

 

Rod Locker

Deck Extension

Raised flooring, all wood out of 21/32" plywood

 

 

 

 

[Quarry Man]

52 minutes ago, HenryPF said:

 

That can't be right,  How is 1/16" 1.5 x 1.5 any more expensive that the same at 1/8" ?

 

Even going by Home Depot prices (which for 96" of 1.5 x 1.5 x .0625 x 19 pieces it is only $385. And those prices are pretty horrible vs. going to a local metal supply store (or online for that matter).

 

I built my boat with 1/8" thick stuff which was way overboard for the boat but I made sure you could step anywhere and it wouldn't flex at all. So I think you would be correct that 1/16" is more than enough. Also, invest in a hydralic pop rivet gun or the cordless drill adapter as your hands will love you unless you got the bucks for a cordless one.

 

Rod Locker

Deck Extension

Raised flooring, all wood out of 21/32" plywood

 

 

 

 

your build is very similar to what my mental picture is. I had the idea of joining the angle together with flatbar underneath to keep it flush. I wasn't planning in using any vertical supports, as the flush mounted bins would rest on top of the subfloor, so they would essentially be the vertical support, I can always add some support if need be. Think it will be strong enough?

 

im now planning on using a hybrid angle and flatbar deck jointed by flatbar and angle. https://imgur.com/a/WUfG2vm

great build btw

3 hours ago, SuperDuty said:

Blind rivets and pop rivets are actually the same thing but people often confuse them. I think what the other person is talking about is using a sealed rivet so it will be water tight. 

thats what I thought, I was confused a week ago and came to the conclusion that they were the same but I wasn't positive. I will be drilling out the benches so I will need to use sealed rivets on the exterior part of the hull

[redmexican5081]

15 hours ago, SuperDuty said:

Blind rivets and pop rivets are actually the same thing but people often confuse them. I think what the other person is talking about is using a sealed rivet so it will be water tight. 

Yes this, sorry for the bad information 

[HenryPF]

So when I connected pieces of the 1/8" aluminum angle (one piece on top of another or vice versa) keep in mind I put flat bar on top of the lower aluminum angle to keep it flat and flush. You can see it in the deck extension in the middle. I do not know if you are going to care if everything is flush (it certainly does not need to be with wood flexing on it).

 

I am worried about the fact your 90" span (45" + 45") has no vertical support.

 

Have you seen this guy's videos? (he shows what you are trying to do in a ton of videos) and why he did it.

 

He has a framing video on what you should use and the pitfalls like im talking about above.

 

 

 

 

[Quarry Man]

21 hours ago, HenryPF said:

So when I connected pieces of the 1/8" aluminum angle (one piece on top of another or vice versa) keep in mind I put flat bar on top of the lower aluminum angle to keep it flat and flush. You can see it in the deck extension in the middle. I do not know if you are going to care if everything is flush (it certainly does not need to be with wood flexing on it).

 

I am worried about the fact your 90" span (45" + 45") has no vertical support.

 

Have you seen this guy's videos? (he shows what you are trying to do in a ton of videos) and why he did it.

 

He has a framing video on what you should use and the pitfalls like im talking about above.

I have watched almost every single video at least twice, and im serious too. In order for everything to be flush I will join the two pieces together at the same level and attach em with a piece of flat bar underneath and som angle on the side where need be. Will add vertical support where necessary.

the plan is to use the totes inside the hatches as vertical support, and if that isn't strong enough, ill use metal supports

[schplurg]

On 1/29/2020 at 3:47 PM, Mjmj said:

Here is where I would use tubing. Eventually you will want to run wires. Given that most Electronics are run off the starting battery,  it is best to have a easy way to fun the wires from the stern. 

 

Couldn't you run a length of PVC pipe for wiring? Cheaper, lighter, easier to take apart if you ever need to.

 

One of the big bass conversion Youtube guys says not to use the aluminum angle you buy in the store at Home Depot because it isn't made for structural strength. Says to use different grade aluminum. I looked into it but I'm not positive about this.

 

 

[Way2slow]

I don't get into construction projects because there are too many experts but if I was doing this for myself, I would use 1/2" MDO plywood and depending on the length of run I was wanting the size metal.  Just doing a little deck on the front of my jon for TM, a place to step, sit and stand if I wanted to, I use 1", angle about 16ga.

The MDO I've used is strong enough, it does not need a lot of bracing.  On a longer 3' or so run, you can always box it so there's a center support leg.  More than strong enough and a whole lot cheaper than all the bigger stuff.  

Unless you are a good TIG welder, would not even consider tubing because of the joints. 

[Mjmj]

12 hours ago, schplurg said:

 

Couldn't you run a length of PVC pipe for wiring? Cheaper, lighter, easier to take apart if you ever need to.

 

One of the big bass conversion Youtube guys says not to use the aluminum angle you buy in the store at Home Depot because it isn't made for structural strength. Says to use different grade aluminum. I looked into it but I'm not positive about this.

 

 

I was thinking, he could use 3" square tube. That serves a dual purpose. He could use it as part of his framing and he woul be able to run his wires, without taking up alot or room. I tore my boat down to the frame and that's the first thing I did. 

 

I agree with @Way2slow with using plywood. It will save alot of money. I purchased metal hatches and they cost about 1000$  If you do decide to go with plywood,  I would not use MDO. I joined a tin forum and most of them use regular plywood. They treat the plywood with old times formula. They will use this sealant on any wood that is on the boat or trailer (transom, deck, lids, bunks)

OLD-TIMER S FORMULA 
One part Boiled Linseed Oil, 
One part Spar Varnish or Spar Urethane.
Two parts Mineral Spirts.

[Quarry Man]

I am using angle and flat bar, 1/8" thick 1.5" width

[Way2slow]

I said a little deck.  If I was doing the project Mjmj has going, I think I would have used aluminum.  That's a huge amount of weight being added to that boat.  Looks to me like someone is building a lead sled or planning on grossly over power it.  

However, that's why I don't get into the construction projects. I'm not an expert.

[WRB]

The way this project is being engineered the deck out weighs the boat! Look at how airplanes are constructed using aluminum with stiffeners struts so thin spans don't flex or can.

You can remove 1/2 the weight by simply using lightning holes. Think light weight for everything above the waterline CG.

Tom

 

[Quarry Man]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

The way this project is being engineered the deck out weighs the boat! Look at how airplanes are constructed using aluminum with stiffeners struts so thin spans don't flex or can.

You can remove 1/2 the weight by simply using lightning holes. Think light weight for everything above the waterline CG.

Tom

 

too much weight even with angle and flatbar?