Downsizing the rig’s tow vehicle

[Way2slow]

Just a question, not disagreeing.  Don't turbocharged and super charged engines require premium, high octane gas, at about 40 cents more per gallon.  Boosting compression increases fuel economy as far as miles per gallon, but is it saving you anything if you are having to pay 20% more for the fuel it takes to run it.  Like a diesel today, yes, they get better fuel mileage, but since having gone to sulfur free fuel, the cost per gallon pretty much offset that additional fuel mileage, dollars spent at the pump can be close to the same. 

Like the VW Beetle convertible of my wife's, yea, it gets 30mpg, but is supposed to be run of 91 octane.  Her Highlander, a whole bunch bigger and more comfortable to drive gets 25mpg and runs 87 octane. Take a trip and both are going to cost close to the same, but traveling is a whole lot nicer in the Highlander.

[DanielG]

37 minutes ago, Way2slow said:

Just a question, not disagreeing.  Don't turbocharged and super charged engines require premium, high octane gas, at about 40 cents more per gallon.  Boosting compression increases fuel economy as far as miles per gallon, but is it saving you anything if you are having to pay 20% more for the fuel it takes to run it.  Like a diesel today, yes, they get better fuel mileage, but since having gone to sulfur free fuel, the cost per gallon pretty much offset that additional fuel mileage, dollars spent at the pump can be close to the same. 

Like the VW Beetle convertible of my wife's, yea, it gets 30mpg, but is supposed to be run of 91 octane.  Her Highlander, a whole bunch bigger and more comfortable to drive gets 25mpg and runs 87 octane. Take a trip and both are going to cost close to the same, but traveling is a whole lot nicer in the Highlander.

I don't think so. My son in laws Subaru has a turbo in it and he has to use high octane fuel. But he considers it a little muscle car. I have a Ford V8 but I can't imagine all their other engines, being ecoboosts taking high octane fuel. I'm almost positive they're standard octane.

[DanielG]

Re: Turbo Fords.

When I bought my f150 in 2015, it was the first year of the aluminum bodies. I took a chance on that. They had also made the turbo's for a short while. I didn't take a chance on that. I got the V8. There were lots of claims of ecoboost problems at the time. I think that situation has improved markedly though. And, the turbos do have tremendous torque. Some of them out torque a V8 easily.

 

But.... The other reason for the V8, for me anyway. The gas mileage on the turbos was better... overall. And it is better, until you step on the gas and engage the turbocharger. It drops dramatically. When do you have to do that? When you tow. I'd imagine it's running all the time while towing. especially under load on a hill. I tow a lot with a camper. Not many times a year but when I do it's 5000 miles or more at a time.

The gas mileage while under load of an ecoboost engine is not good. It pulls like crazy, but at a cost. And the idea of using a turbocharger to wind up and get more out of an engine than it normally would be able to doesn't appeal to me. Naturally aspirated is heavier and possibly more sluggish than an ecoboost but I trust it.

 

An ecoboost engine that runs without the turbo most of the time except maybe when you want to pass a car or do some ocassional towing will get great gas mileage. When My V8 tows some weight, the gas mileage changes just a little. So, overall in that situation my gas mileage, in my understanding from friends and relatives who have the ecoboost, is just as good overall as theirs is if they did the weight pulling that I do.

Upon my next truck, If all Ford has is ecoboosts, I think I'd have to pass this time.

 

Here is a video from a few years ago about technicians and engine choices. Remember it's a few years old now.

 

 

[Bird]

5 hours ago, bassfisher444 said:

What era are you talking about? I have a Jeep 4.0 ( an engine design that dates back to the 60s) with almost 250,000 miles on it that still has excellent compression and doesn't use any oil between 5K oil change intervals, same goes for my 7.3 Powerstroke with 170,000 on it. As a mechanic I have seen several Jeep 4.0, Ford 300 I6, 302, 351 and 460 V8s, Dodge 318, 360, and GM 305, 350, and 454 engines with 200K or more that still have good compression and don't burn any oil, all of those engines were designed in the 60s-70s and used all the way up to the late 90s or early 2000s. Its the newer engines that have issues with excessive oil consumption, Ford, Chrysler and GM have all had quite a few recalls in the past 10 years because of excessive oil consumption in their engines. 

 

That's not playing fair comparing the longevity of the 4.0 with anything built today.

Like comparing steel to plastic. Lol

[Ski213]

It’s my understanding that with the eco boost there are performance and fuel efficiency gains to be had running higher octane fuel but that it’s not necessary. When it comes to turbos and super chargers I have very little knowledge. I understand the concept but it’s not something I have real world experience with.  

 

If I do some rough math with fuel prices from today, on a 500 mile trip it’s a wash. That’s figuring 12 mpg for my truck (probably being generous) on 87 and a vehicle at 15 mpg on premium. The 15 is prob a little low from what I understand. 

 

I really appreciate everybody who has weighed in on this. It is for sure helpful. How well the truck gets the boat moving is important to

me but the biggest concern I have is controlling it with an unexpected stop or a quick turn.  Best thing I can do I guess is hook it up to these different trucks and see how it feels. I have a newer Chevy 6.0 and Ford 5.0 I can hook up that belong to friends so I just need to find a dealer that’ll let me hook to a 3.5. And maybe a dealer that’ll let me hook to a gas F250. 

 

Thanks again and keep

the input coming. 

 

 

[DINK WHISPERER]

What's all this talk of complicated oil changes in EcoBoost vehicles!? I just bought my wife a new 2019 edge ST a few months ago. Oil changes on it are no worse than any other vehicle I've ever done. 

[SuperDuty]

8 hours ago, Ski213 said:

It’s my understanding that with the eco boost there are performance and fuel efficiency gains to be had running higher octane fuel but that it’s not necessary. When it comes to turbos and super chargers I have very little knowledge. I understand the concept but it’s not something I have real world experience with.  

 

If I do some rough math with fuel prices from today, on a 500 mile trip it’s a wash. That’s figuring 12 mpg for my truck (probably being generous) on 87 and a vehicle at 15 mpg on premium. The 15 is prob a little low from what I understand. 

 

I really appreciate everybody who has weighed in on this. It is for sure helpful. How well the truck gets the boat moving is important to

me but the biggest concern I have is controlling it with an unexpected stop or a quick turn.  Best thing I can do I guess is hook it up to these different trucks and see how it feels. I have a newer Chevy 6.0 and Ford 5.0 I can hook up that belong to friends so I just need to find a dealer that’ll let me hook to a 3.5. And maybe a dealer that’ll let me hook to a gas F250. 

 

Thanks again and keep

the input coming. 

 

 

Well heck! My vote goes to the super duty with the 6.2! ? 

 

Seriously though, the Ford 6.2 has become legendary for reliability in the Ford community. A very good engine. 

[DanielG]

8 hours ago, Ski213 said:

 

 

If I do some rough math with fuel prices from today, on a 500 mile trip it’s a wash. That’s figuring 12 mpg for my truck (probably being generous) on 87 and a vehicle at 15 mpg on premium. The 15 is prob a little low from what I understand. 

 

My 2015 f150 xlt 5.0 V8 gets an avg 21.3 mpg mixed driving no towing. In the last 15k miles I'm avg 19.1 mpg. That's with regular mixed driving and the towing I do with a camper trip once and awhile. And the computer mileage matches my hand calculated mileage by two tenths mpg. So, just about the same. My previous truck a silverado v8 was about 16-18 mpg max. Older truck of course. I think maybe the aluminum body on the Ford might have something to do with it. Great truck anyway and not enough of a mileage difference to make me jump on an ecoboost. And, I embarrassingly admit it. I love the drone of a v8 when I step on the gas. It's something that I still smile about. Sad but true.

[slonezp]

11 hours ago, SuperDuty said:

Well heck! My vote goes to the super duty with the 6.2! ? 

 

Seriously though, the Ford 6.2 has become legendary for reliability in the Ford community. A very good engine. 

First thing I did before considering the 6.2 was talk to my sons buddy's dad, who is a Ford mechanic. Said the 6.2 is extremely reliable and has zero inherent issues. The up and coming 7.3 gasser looks to be a beast

[bassfisher444]

1 hour ago, slonezp said:

First thing I did before considering the 6.2 was talk to my sons buddy's dad, who is a Ford mechanic. Said the 6.2 is extremely reliable and has zero inherent issues. The up and coming 7.3 gasser looks to be a beast

Yes the 6.2 has proven to be very reliable, they even put it in the f150 for a few years 11-14 I believe.

[DogBone_384]

On 1/22/2020 at 11:09 PM, Ski213 said:

all bets are off at 18 yrs old and 1/4 million miles as far as my confidence towing long distance

Have you done all the PM on the drivetrain, and/or ever done a compression check?  If 'YES' is your answer to both, and the compression is good, I'd drive it no questions asked.  250K+ isn't much for modern drivetrains these days if they're properly maintained.

 

I can't help you with towing between 3/4 and 1/2 ton trucks.  My Tundras towed a couple trailers and bass boats flawlessly.  My current Tundra's towing capacity is just over 9,000 pounds.

 

If you buy a new truck, I'll only say that I've owned Toyota trucks for the last 20 years and in over half a million miles, total, I've NEVER repaired one.

 

Best of luck with your trucks.

23 hours ago, Bird said:

Jeep 4.0

BEST motor ... evah!

[slonezp]

8 hours ago, DogBone_384 said:

Have you done 

 

If you buy a new truck, I'll only say that I've owned Toyota trucks for the last 20 years and in over half a million miles, total, I've NEVER repaired one.

You fared better than I did. I traded in my Tundra with 200k that I bought new in 2007. Repairs included front differential rebuilt, radio replaced twice, bumpers replaced twice, radiator replaced twice, water pump, shock and struts, u joints replaced twice, parking brake and linkage replaced. Drivers seat base broke. A harmonic noise at low speeds that no one could pinpoint. It had electrical gremlins the last year of ownership and the bed had rusted through from the bottom up. The transmission hunted with the trailer connected and motor always seemed to be running at higher rpms than it should have with the boat in tow.

The engine could have probably gone another 200k, but what good is that if the rest of the truck had problems. 

[SuperDuty]

Yeah for the past several years, the Tacoma's have had significant issues to the point many diehard yotam fans were jumping ship. Thankfully, the toyota 4runner is made in Japan and shares none of the issues the Tacoma has. Otherwise I wouldn't have just bought the new 4runner for the wifey. For her, it was between the 4runner or an F150. She's a speed demon and was blown away when she drove the EcoBoost. Man that thing is FAST!

 

And that Ford 7.3 gasser is looking to be one nice engine. I think it'll prove to be just as reliable as the 6.2 and will have towing capabilities close to the diesels. That may be my next truck as I'm sick of the constant costly repairs and maintenance of the diesels. One oil change costs me $140 doing it myself. 

 

Back in the day I was a huge jeep head and have built many sweet jeeps in my time. The Jeep 4.0 was an amazing engine. They were soooooo stupid to stop making it. 

 

 

[DogBone_384]

11 hours ago, slonezp said:

You fared better than I did.

Sorry to hear.  I hope that when you replaced the radio for the second time it was an Alpine! 

 

I've worked on almost every manufacturer out there, including Porsche, Ferrari, and old Jags (with Lucas' electrical systems).  I've always known Toyota and Honda as the most bulletproof cars/trucks out there, my own vehicles included.  

 

Maybe you got one made on a Friday afternoon ....

[Way2slow]

Back before time began, I drove Ford.  In 1969 I bought a 69 Charger R/T with the 426 Hemi.  In 13 months, the rear end was whining, transmission was jumping out of gear, the front ball joints were shot, the engine was smoking and using oil, and the seat covers were splitting at the seams and had constant electrical problems, that was my one and only MoPar, went back to Fords.  In 1976 I went to Italy for several years where I got a Ferrari 308 and my a Porsche 911, (some good stories behind those but not getting into) and a Fiat 850 to run around in.  Shipped the Porsche back and drove it along with my 73 Bronco I kept while overseas.  In 86 we bought our first Chevy, 1986 Astro Van with all the bells and whistles.  In 1990 I went to Sicily and took the Van over and shipped it back with us and continued to drive it.  My wife loved that van, drove it for 300,000 miles and other than normal maintenance, oil changes, transmission fluid changes, brakes, shocks, tires etc, I replaced the TPS, AC compressor and alternator, was the only maintenance ever done on it.  I sold it in Warner Robins and still see it running around from time to time.   In 2001, bought the first Toyota, 2001 Camry.  In 2006 we gave that one to our daughter (who later totaled it) and bought a 2006 Rav4 year end closeout deal, hated that one, way too small, so traded it for a 2007 High Lander.  Three deer did a number on it so we traded it for a 2008 Highlander.  Still drive the 2008, has 196,000 miles and other than normal service, one set of spark plugs, and one set of brake pads, never had a minutes trouble with it.   Still cleans up to look almost new, wife likes it and has no desire to trade it.

Now, those were our primary vehicles, I had a number other vehicles mixed in with those, several front wheel drive Fords until I finally said I would never own another, and one Thunderbird my wife bought without even asking me.  She got shafted and learned her lesson on that one.  I've been driving Toyota pickups since 1988 and still driving my 1993 4WD.  Several 4WD Chevy pickups and a couple of Vans, still driving a 2500HD, (when towing the boat).  Plus a mix of other vehicles like the VW Beetle and 2003 Century. 

 

Dang near had as many vehicles as I have had boats.

[SuperDuty]

Lol I hear ya. in 30 years of driving, I've owned well over 100 different vehicles, probably much more than 100. I use to get bored with them very quickly and sell or trade them off. I've owned everything with the exception of exotics. I was a jeep and toyota fan back in the days of being an offroader. Owned many Tacoma's in those times and other than the serious rust issues, they were bullet proof. Once we bought the wife's new 4runner, I started hanging out in the Toyota forums a lot reading and learning. I was very surprised to see all the guys there complaining about the reliability of the toyota trucks the past few years. Definitely wasn't the norm for Toyotas products. The 4runners, unlike the Tacoma's sre still manufactured in Japan so they don't share the same issues. My uncle was VP of the toyota manufacturing plant in Southern Indiana until he passed a few years ago so it was always a topic in the family. 

 

Toyotas definitely hold their resale. My dad has owned two new Tacoma's in the past 5 years. The last one, a 2018 model, he sold it for $1500 less than what he paid for it off the lot. Granted, he's old and doesn't drive much. But only lost $1500 on a sale of a 1 year old truck. I'm hoping we get the same deal when we trade in the wifeys 4runner next summer. 

 

My son in law drives a 2020 Chevy 2500 with 3k miles on it.  this morning on the way to work it started knocking very bad and a CEL came on.  He got it to the chevy dealer and I picked him up. They called him this afternoon and informed him that it had a broken rocker arm. Surprisingly, they fixed it rather quickly and I took him to get it at 5:30 this evening. I was impressed with how fast they fixed it and it wasn't even the dealership that sold it. Hopefully it was just a fluke thing. 

 

 

[VolFan]

I have been driving a '06 4Runner with the small V-8 (4.7?) in it for 11 years now. Have replaced the suspension and a few odds and ends from normal wear and tear, but its a great all-around vehicle for fishing, lighter towing, and road trips with family and dog. I may have it forever.

[SuperDuty]

43 minutes ago, VolFan said:

I have been driving a '06 4Runner with the small V-8 (4.7?) in it for 11 years now. Have replaced the suspension and a few odds and ends from normal wear and tear, but its a great all-around vehicle for fishing, lighter towing, and road trips with family and dog. I may have it forever.

I've got brand new coil springs and shocks, front and rear that only have 100 miles on them before I put her lift kit on. They're just sitting in the shop collecting dust. I probably should sell it all. They're for the TRD offroad premium 

[Fishing Rhino]

On 1/28/2020 at 7:42 PM, Way2slow said:

Back before time began, I drove Ford.  In 1969 I bought a 69 Charger R/T with the 426 Hemi.  In 13 months, the rear end was whining, transmission was jumping out of gear, the front ball joints were shot, the engine was smoking and using oil, and the seat covers were splitting at the seams and had constant electrical problems, that was my one and only MoPar, went back to Fords.  In 1976 I went to Italy for several years where I got a Ferrari 308 and my a Porsche 911, (some good stories behind those but not getting into) and a Fiat 850 to run around in.  Shipped the Porsche back and drove it along with my 73 Bronco I kept while overseas.  In 86 we bought our first Chevy, 1986 Astro Van with all the bells and whistles.  In 1990 I went to Sicily and took the Van over and shipped it back with us and continued to drive it.  My wife loved that van, drove it for 300,000 miles and other than normal maintenance, oil changes, transmission fluid changes, brakes, shocks, tires etc, I replaced the TPS, AC compressor and alternator, was the only maintenance ever done on it.  I sold it in Warner Robins and still see it running around from time to time.   In 2001, bought the first Toyota, 2001 Camry.  In 2006 we gave that one to our daughter (who later totaled it) and bought a 2006 Rav4 year end closeout deal, hated that one, way too small, so traded it for a 2007 High Lander.  Three deer did a number on it so we traded it for a 2008 Highlander.  Still drive the 2008, has 196,000 miles and other than normal service, one set of spark plugs, and one set of brake pads, never had a minutes trouble with it.   Still cleans up to look almost new, wife likes it and has no desire to trade it.

Now, those were our primary vehicles, I had a number other vehicles mixed in with those, several front wheel drive Fords until I finally said I would never own another, and one Thunderbird my wife bought without even asking me.  She got shafted and learned her lesson on that one.  I've been driving Toyota pickups since 1988 and still driving my 1993 4WD.  Several 4WD Chevy pickups and a couple of Vans, still driving a 2500HD, (when towing the boat).  Plus a mix of other vehicles like the VW Beetle and 2003 Century. 

 

Dang near had as many vehicles as I have had boats.

Sounds like you used the charger in tractor pulls.

[slonezp]

3 hours ago, Fishing Rhino said:

Sounds like you used the charger in tractor pulls.

A little sawdust in the Mopar rear end would get rid of the whining

[Ratherbefishing75]

Just my 2 cents   I am a certified master technician and I get to fix them all what you buy should all depend on what you like I see more problems with fords and dodges then I do with chevys and GMC  with that being sed if you are going to purchase a new truck. You need to drive them and see what one feels better for you  I have a 2013 GMC 2500HD with a 6.0 under the hood  I use it for work I plow with it and tow my little boat with it  I also tow car trailers from time to time  and I know for a fact that I have exceeded the towing capacity for the truck .

 If you use your truck for more Then just towing a boat then getting a 3/4 ton if a good idea but if you are only using it for going fishing then 1/2 ton will do fine