Downsizing the rig’s tow vehicle

[Ski213]

Here’s where I am. I tow with an older Chevy 2500HD with a 6.0. I don’t know what my rig weighs as towed but I’d guess 4000# max. on a tournament day (including trailer).

 

It’s newer truck time. I love my truck and I’ll not part with it, but all bets are off at 18 yrs old and 1/4 million miles as far as my confidence towing long distance. If I took my truck cross country and back with zero issues I’d not be surprised. I’d also not be surprised if something flew apart between my house and the road. 

 

Thinking about going to a  newer used 1/2 ton truck. There’s not a doubt that I can tow my boat with a 1/2 ton. Most of the boats I see at the ramp are behind 1/2 ton trucks. My question is for anybody who has switched from a 3/4 ton to a half ton for towing. I know what the numbers say I’m looking for just real world experiences and opinions. 

 

I aprreciate any input you guys have. 

 

[A-Jay]

It may not be all about how much a vehicle can tow but also how well it does it.

When purchasing a tow vehicle, beside having the guts to move & stop a load, I look for features that can offer both the truck and me as the drive, the best chance to be safe & successful.

Features like:

HILL START ASSIST, 

TOW/HAUL MODE,

TRAILER SWAY CONTROL,

TRAILER BRAKE CONTROLLER, 

AUTO GRADE BRAKING,

TAPSHIFT,

TRANSMISSION TEMPERATURE GAUGE

Also being able to switch from TWO-WHEEL DRIVE,  ALL-WHEEL DRIVE (AWD) FOUR-WHEEL DRIVE gives the option of enjoying outstanding traction on demand. 

Where available, adding a Max Trailer Package can add valuable features like enhanced cooling radiator, revised shock tuning and heavier duty rear springs.

 

Current rig is 6.2L and is a pleasure to tow with. 

 

 

Good Luck with your search & pending purchase.

New Truck day is always a good time.

A-Jay

[bassfisher444]

My company truck is a GM 2500 with the 6.0, it tows 4-5K about the same as a V8 f150 does not bad at all. However towing with Ford Super Duty or Ram HD is a complely different experience, they feel more like a HD truck and seem handle big loads much better than the GM trucks do. Any 1/2 ton truck will tow a 4K boat without much issue. For Ford I would recommend avoiding the ecoboost and going with the 5.0 V8, for Ram the 5.7 Hemi is the only engine I would get, the GM 4.8, 5.3, 6.0 and 6.2 v8s are all pretty reliable but the 4.8 is pretty weak when towing, the 5.7 Tundras are good trucks also.

[CountryboyinDC]

You can definitely take the 'buy a little more truck than you need' idea too far.  A dozen years ago I bought a 3/4 ton Dodge with the 6BT Cummins when I thought my life would turn out a little different than it has and I was sick of the underwhelming capabilities of my S-10.  It has 30,000 miles on it today, and boat-wise, the heaviest thing it hauls is 2 kayaks.  With the high prices of new 1/2 tons and low miles it has, it'll probably be with me for a while, but I'll be the first to admit I have way more truck than I need.  While it's great 'not know the trailer's back there', the new gas trucks have way more power than the small block trucks of the 80s and 90s.  My brother-in-law last year bought a Tundra with the V8, and it pulls his enclosed motocross/sleeping area trailer with relative ease.  I would guess that trailer is around 4k (it is tandem axle and has brakes, so it should be raked above 3.5k).  

[Way2slow]

I went the opposite direction with my 20' Dual console with a 225.  I went from a 4WD 1/2 ton to a 4WD 2500HD.  The 1/2 towed it fairly good @ 13.5mgp, the 2500HD 6.0, tows it no problem @ 9.5-10MPG.  The 1/2 ton I could turn it around at most small boat ramps.  The 2500HD I can usually turn it around in most Walmart parking lots.

The huge difference comes in when you start hitting hills, the HD doesn't pay any attention to them in OD, the 1/2 ton with 350, which I had a highly modified transmission for heavy towing, still had to come out of OD.  I doubt I would even tow a boat that size with a 1/2 ton in OD if its was a factory stock transmission.

[gim]

This is interesting.  Not many people downsize from an HD truck to a 1/2 ton truck.  There's a fair number of threads asking if smaller trucks/SUVs have enough power to tow a boat, but very few asking if there's enough power from a full size 1/2 ton truck.  Will be interesting to see how many people respond with a real world experience on downsizing from an HD to a normal 1/2 ton.  Sounds like the bassfisher444 may have experience with this.

[Bird]

Any of the 8 cylinder half ton offerings will handily tow 4K and give a nice ride when not towing. 

 

When you move up to 2500 series trucks you gain beefier components and payload but your nowhere near that requirement. Imo

 

The 1500's I've towed with were 5.3 vortec Chevy's and 5.7 Hemi's, both engines were outstanding and would play with 4000 lbs.

 

I've since moved to 2500 6.4 Hemi but tow a 30ft RV with my boat in the bed.

[SuperDuty]

Towing 4k pounds with a 1/2 ton is a cake walk. You'll get mid 20's mpg with a Ford EcoBoost. My son's friend haukef6a 12k lbs trailer with his EcoBoost. That thing is a pulling beast

  But a 3/4 ton is built much heavier and made for towing. 

I use to pull 9k lbs daily with a Ford f150.

[Scott F]

1 hour ago, SuperDuty said:

Towing 4k pounds with a 1/2 ton is a cake walk. You'll get mid 20's mpg with a Ford EcoBoost. My son's friend haukef6a 12k lbs trailer with his EcoBoost. 

My new F150 with a non- Ecoboost engine has the highest MPG sticker of any truck at 25 mpg highway. It will get 25 under perfect conditions but I get much less than that towing a boat that is less than 2000 lbs. 

[Way2slow]

For his boat, which is only slightly heavier than mine, I would see no problem using a 1/2 ton.  I've used both and like I said, other than hills, I was perfectly happy.  When I bought the 2500HD, and sold my 1500, I didn't realize I was going need a tanker truck to feed the thing.  On it's best day, not towing anything, 13 mpg was seldom achieved, normally 11 - 12 mpg.   My 1/2 would get 16-17mpg without the boat behind it.

Where I live, I drive a minimum of 25 miles to the nearest largely populated area, so when you want anything more that a loaf of bread or other common small items, you make a 50 - 60 mile round trip to get it.  

What that means, that 2500HD stays sitting with a battery maintainer on it, and I only drive it to tow my boat or every now and then just to run it some.  

MY old 93 Toyota 4WD pickup or the wife's VW Beetle Convertible is my daily transportation.  Feeding that 2500HD gets expensive.

[Ski213]

I appreciate the input. Keep it coming. It’s been exactly what I am looking for.

 

 @A-Jay I agree. The numbers aren’t everything. It’s how it handles it as much as how much it can move. In motocross (and I’m sure the term is used elsewhere) the tool used to assess real world function was the butt dyno which of course factors in a lot of other things than power like suspension, braking, and weight distribution. 

[SuperDuty]

Those new Chevy z71 sure are one sharp truck!  I tried talking the wifey into one but we just bought her a new 4runner offroad premium. And ofcourse, within 10 days of buying it, I had to put a 3.5" lift kit and 33" tires on it. She's always gotta stand out lol. 

The Toyota is rated to pull 5500#

And her sister's off road beast is pushing around 600HP. That thing is wicked!!

[slonezp]

I went from a Tundra 5.7 to a Super Duty with a 6.2 and my boat/trailer is probably 3500+ as far as tow weight. My biggest beef with the Tundra and towing was the transmission would hunt with the trailer connected. Aside from that it pulled the boat fine. The Super Duty pulls the boat smooth as butter.

[SuperDuty]

1 hour ago, slonezp said:

I went from a Tundra 5.7 to a Super Duty with a 6.2 and my boat/trailer is probably 3500+ as far as tow weight. My biggest beef with the Tundra and towing was the transmission would hunt with the trailer connected. Aside from that it pulled the boat fine. The Super Duty pulls the boat smooth as butter.

I love my superduty,it's a pulling machine with the diesel. 

[Ski213]

@bassfisher444 curious why you would avoid the eco boost trucks. If I went the F150 route I’m primarily looking at the 5.0 but here there seem to be a lot more of the eco boost trucks. I have some concern with the replacement costs for the turbos but was wondering why you mentioned avoiding them. 

[SuperDuty]

There are around 600 F150's in my company's fleet, the majority with the EcoBoost. We have ran them for several years now and they have been top notch with hardly any issues. I, too, would like to know why he feels they should be avoided. Before the EcoBoost got pushed into our fleet, everyone had either the 4.6 or 5.0 and we've all liked the EcoBoost much better. 

[Way2slow]

I used to be a Die Hard Ford fan, but through the years, they have made me think more and more, you couldn't give me one.  For years, I've said I would never have another front wheel drive ford vehicle.  I've considered those disposable vehicles, but still thought their rear wheel drive were good.  I've put almost a million miles on Ford vans while I was working as a road serves technician for industrial equipment and had very few problems with them.

However even that has changed in the past couple of year from friends that have them.  Just today I stopped at a Pawn and Gun shop to look for a brand of 22LR bullets.  There was a failry new looking F-250 with a very large chrome front grill.  The chrome on it was wavy and lifting off over the whole top and down both sides.   My brother bought a 2018 Ford Super Duty and it has been in the shop almost as much as he has driven it.  

[SuperDuty]

3 minutes ago, Way2slow said:

I used to be a Die Hard Ford fan, but through the years, they have made me think more and more, you couldn't give me one.  For years, I've said I would never have another front wheel drive ford vehicle.  I've considered those disposable vehicles, but still thought their rear wheel drive were good.  I've put almost a million miles on Ford vans while I was working as a road serves technician for industrial equipment and had very few problems with them.

However even that has changed in the past couple of year from friends that have them.  Just today I stopped at a Pawn and Gun shop to look for a brand of 22LR bullets.  There was a failry new looking F-250 with a very large chrome front grill.  The chrome on it was wavy and lifting off over the whole top and down both sides.   My brother bought a 2018 Ford Super Duty and it has been in the shop almost as much as he has driven it.  

Everything is going that way these days. All these manufacturers do is figure out a way to make things cheaper. Nothing is built to last anymore, it's built to replace in a few years. Ever wonder why you see lawn mowers from the 70's still being used but mowers from 2010 are broken down in someone's back yard?

 

One of my duties in the corporate world was to figure out how to save money via process improvements (lean manufacturing). Things like measuring how many steps it would take to perform a task and how to reduce it. 

 

It's not just Ford, it's every single one of them....I can give you a comparable story for Dodge, Chevy, Toyota, Nissan etc. 

[Glenn]

Whelp, I have an F-450 diesel and it's convinced me to never get a diesel again.  Don't get me wrong, it pulls like no other...fantastic tow vehicle.  But the super-high maintenance of a diesel combined with the fact it "breaks down" (reduces power) when the even slightest thing isn't perfect has left me with expensive maintenance and repair bills...and stranded on the road while towing more than a few times. Lot's of towing bills and expensive repairs because, ya know, it's a diesel. 

 

Last one left me stranded on road because the thermostat didn't open completely.  No, it wasn't overheating - at all.  Not even close.  It's just the sensor detected the thermostat wasn't all the way open, so it shut down the engine.  Sheesh.

 

That said, I ALSO have a 2018 F-150 w/ecoboost and couldn't be happier.  It's been problem-free for 25k miles so far, and tows exceptionally well.  My only complaint is that you always have to switch it into ecoboost every time you use it. You'd think it's have a memory setting, but it doesn't.  Other than that, it's been terrific.

 

As for throw-away manufacturing - funny you mention lawn mowers.  I bought a new weed eater in 2006, but had to throw it away last year.  It worked perfectly fine, but they stopped making replacement line for it.  Seriously.

 

Bought a new one last season (different brand), for less than the original, and it works better than what I had.  So I suppose it's a blessing in disguise....until they stop making replacement line for it next year.  LOL

 

 

[Ski213]

@Way2slow and @SuperDuty y’all are not making feel good about buying a newer truck. That’s the reality of it though. It wouldn’t be so bad if vehicles were priced as throw away. Some of the stupid stuff I see go

on with $60k trucks makes me a little sick. There are a lot of features that are for sure nice on newer vehicles but I’m one of those guys who is thinking of how much those things are going to cost down the road to fix. Some of them you can just leave broken but as mentioned by @Glennsometimes something that shouldn’t make much difference shuts down the whole operation. My truck could absolutely leave me sitting at any time but it’s going to be a legitimate event like no fuel, no fire, something actually comes apart, or one of the maybe 15 sensors or ecm fails. Not because the computer gets a bad reading from the windshield fluid sensor. 

 

I’m not against technological advancements or dogging newer trucks though. Obviously I’m in the market for one. 

 

I love the mower example. I had an old rider that I got for free and put maybe 100 bucks in to get running that would make a yard look

like a golf course. Didn’t mow at 30mph but it got the job done. It was 20 yrs old. I got tired of throwing parts at it and now I have a new one that I’m already throwing parts at 10

hrs and in all honesty is half the mower. 

 

 

[Way2slow]

I know we are getting off the original topic, but when you mention replacement parts, there is just about no such thing now days.  What few parts you can find, and like you mentioned, you have something that's only a couple years old and need something for it, you find this "DISCONTINUED".  What parts are available are assemblies you have to buy at some ungodly price because some two dollar part broke. 

[Way2slow]

Because of all the new technology going into vehicles today is the reason I'll probably never own another new one.  I'm fortunate in that I have a degree in electronics, very computer and electronics knowledgeable.  Also I am a master mechanic, and there's absolutely nothing I can't do to and automobile, so I know how to use the high dollar diagnostic equipment to trouble shoot and repair my own.  I've always been one that if man made it, I can probably fix it.  The problem today is it takes a very sophisticated computer system to diagnose one, the those are getting into the thousands of dollars and big bucks each year to keep them up to date.

They are making them so it's almost cost prohibitive to buy the diagnostic equipment and they are so complicated, the average mechanic can't fix them because they don't know how to trouble shoot them, and and that goes for most of the dealerships also.  Same for the new high tech outboards.

[Ski213]

25 minutes ago, Way2slow said:

I know we are getting off the original topic, but when you mention replacement parts, there is just about no such thing now days.  What few parts you can find, and like you mentioned, you have something that's only a couple years old and need something for it, you find this "DISCONTINUED".  What parts are available are assemblies you have to buy at some ungodly price because some two dollar part broke. 

I’ve heard that called planned obsolescence. 

 

I do most of the wrenching on the truck myself but I have a buddy who owns a shop. My truck was down there a couple days ago and he was telling me what they had tied up in their scanner and updates. It was crazy. Thousands of dollars. Anymore a mechanic is as much a tech as anything. Vehicles are getting like computers and phones where by the time you buy the technology has been replaced.  

[SuperDuty]

12 hours ago, Glenn said:

Whelp, I have an F-450 diesel and it's convinced me to never get a diesel again.  Don't get me wrong, it pulls like no other...fantastic tow vehicle.  But the super-high maintenance of a diesel combined with the fact it "breaks down" (reduces power) when the even slightest thing isn't perfect has left me with expensive maintenance and repair bills...and stranded on the road while towing more than a few times. Lot's of towing bills and expensive repairs because, ya know, it's a diesel. 

 

Last one left me stranded on road because the thermostat didn't open completely.  No, it wasn't overheating - at all.  Not even close.  It's just the sensor detected the thermostat wasn't all the way open, so it shut down the engine.  Sheesh.

 

That said, I ALSO have a 2018 F-150 w/ecoboost and couldn't be happier.  It's been problem-free for 25k miles so far, and tows exceptionally well.  My only complaint is that you always have to switch it into ecoboost every time you use it. You'd think it's have a memory setting, but it doesn't.  Other than that, it's been terrific.

 

As for throw-away manufacturing - funny you mention lawn mowers.  I bought a new weed eater in 2006, but had to throw it away last year.  It worked perfectly fine, but they stopped making replacement line for it.  Seriously.

 

Bought a new one last season (different brand), for less than the original, and it works better than what I had.  So I suppose it's a blessing in disguise....until they stop making replacement line for it next year.  LOL

 

 

I hate diesels and wouldn't own one if I didn't need it. Although that new Ford 7.3 gasser sure looks appealing for my needs. 

[SuperDuty]

11 hours ago, Ski213 said:

@Way2slow and @SuperDuty y’all are not making feel good about buying a newer truck. That’s the reality of it though. It wouldn’t be so bad if vehicles were priced as throw away. Some of the stupid stuff I see go

on with $60k trucks makes me a little sick. There are a lot of features that are for sure nice on newer vehicles but I’m one of those guys who is thinking of how much those things are going to cost down the road to fix. Some of them you can just leave broken but as mentioned by @Glennsometimes something that shouldn’t make much difference shuts down the whole operation. My truck could absolutely leave me sitting at any time but it’s going to be a legitimate event like no fuel, no fire, something actually comes apart, or one of the maybe 15 sensors or ecm fails. Not because the computer gets a bad reading from the windshield fluid sensor. 

 

I’m not against technological advancements or dogging newer trucks though. Obviously I’m in the market for one. 

 

I love the mower example. I had an old rider that I got for free and put maybe 100 bucks in to get running that would make a yard look

like a golf course. Didn’t mow at 30mph but it got the job done. It was 20 yrs old. I got tired of throwing parts at it and now I have a new one that I’m already throwing parts at 10

hrs and in all honesty is half the mower. 

 

 

The EcoBoost are great trucks,  they really are. My brother in law is a master mechanic at Ford and says the turbos have very little issues which I wouldn't see why they would. Ford has been using turbos on their trucks for a very long time. I've got 110k miles on my Superduty turbo without a hiccup. The lady at work who manages our fleet says the EcoBoost have been some of the most problem free trucks we've had. And all the guys love the power they produce. 

 

I'm not brand loyal, I always buy whatever truck I like. You'll have issues with every manufacturer, as nothing is ever 100% problem free. Do your research on anything. The older dodge  trucks had major transmissions issues, Ford diesels had head gasket issues, toyota has issues, Chevy had their issues. Pick a handful of trucks you're interested in and research what common issues they have to eliminate the ones that are more serious. 

 

 

If I were going to buy a new truck today just for every day driving, I'd definitely have to give the new z71 chevy a hard look just because IMO it's the best looking truck on the road. But I certainly wouldn't be afraid of the F150 either. 

 

I mean look at this bad boy!