Switch Baits or Change Area-how to determine which is the problem

[Bass Ninja]

On 1/20/2020 at 6:51 AM, clemsondds said:

So how do you know the fish are there?  Fishfinder, history, birds in area...

I understand going over them in deeper water and seeing them in your graph, but when you are fishing shallows...how are you confident in determining inactive fish vs no fish? One outcome you have to change locations but the other, you could change locations or change bait.
and thanks nitty for posting that video of the pros discussing this...nice to know others have the same question and I’m not crazy ha. Thanks 

Well, for me, I don't know for certain. I just got a fish finder which I'll try to learn how to use this year, but I haven't been using one. I do fish shallow, 15 ft or less, like 90% of the time. I just take an educated guess based on all the data I have. Its more like based on everything I know (water and air temp and the trend for the past week, time of the year, wind speed and direction, sun angle, time of day, current from inlet streams or the current by the dam, forage base, topography of that body of water, etc) I try to eliminate 80% of the lake, and find my most productive areas on a map, and then when I hit the water, I'll go to those spots and fish them thoroughly, knowing odds are really high they have to be there somewhere, and some of those fish are going to want to eat. If I've fished a lake a lot, I dont really do this because I already have a really good idea where the fish are. Its too much to go into on here, but what really helped me out was watching on youtube a lot of Bassresource. They have some videos where they really go in depth of finding and patterning fish, their habits, how to break down a lake or pond, etc. Spending more time watching every video about it that I could, and learning about the habits of bass has helped me far more than learning about lures and how to fish them. I fell in love with bass fishing for its mental challenge. Its not just about going out randomly casting lures, hoping for the best. Its about correctly analyzing all the data around me, to come up with an educated guess on where the fish might be. I don't always do it correctly, but when I do, it helps develop that gut feeling where it gets easier over time to predict where the fish will be. I have passed up some pads that I thought didn't have good odds of holding fish, just to have a guy pull the winning fish from it a few minutes later. I don't think anyone ever knows for certain where fish will be. We all guess, but for some, its a more educated guess than a wild guess. Hope that helps. 

[Catt]

Here's a question to ponder 

 

Many times it is mentioned here to use "reaction" lures to trigger a reaction strike.

 

So in y'all opinion what is a reaction stike?

 

Is it a strike from an actively feeding bass reacting to your lure.

 

Or is it a strike from an inactive bass that you put your lure in close proximity to their face & they reacted out of aggression.

 

I watched videos from everyone from KVD on down where they mentioned catching inactive bass.

 

I watched videos from Paul Elias, David Fritts, & other crankbait maters talk about catching one bass from a school & that fires up the entire school.

[clemsondds]

Love this!  That's why I enjoy it as well.  

I guess I should have specified how you do this on a new lake.   Unfortunately at this point in my life, I just don't have time to get out and get confident that the bass are actually there...somewhere. 

It looks like everyone just comes down to using all the knowledge they have gained to comprise an educated guess if the fish are there in that pocket.  does anyone use sidescan before they fish a cove/bank to see if they see fish?  No idea if this works or not. 

[jimmyjoe]

   Catt is saying that you can get an inactive bass to bite by putting the lure so close to him that he strikes out of reflex. Tom is saying that it's too much trouble; come back 6-8 hours later and the bite will be better.

   I'm a shorecaster. I have no sonar, and I don't want any sonar. I fish green, muddy Midwest water. I agree with Tom.  If I had a boat and used sonar, I'd agree with Catt.

   My whole world is the margins. 90% of the time, I don't fish over 12 feet deep, if that even. So my problem becomes simple: if inactive bass are within casting distance of shore, are they suspended or are they tight to cover?  In my experience, they're tight on cover. I won't lose lure after lure trying to get them to strike; I'll move and come back later.

   And yes .... last year I thought soft plastic was the answer. It probably is, but I won't use it anymore.     jj

 

  

  

 

 

[Bass Ninja]

12 minutes ago, Catt said:

Here's a question to ponder 

 

Many times it is mentioned here to use "reaction" lures to trigger a reaction strike.

 

So in y'all opinion what is a reaction stike?

 

Is it a strike from an actively feeding bass reacting to your lure.

 

Or is it a strike from an inactive bass that you put your lure in close proximity to their face & they reacted out of aggression.

 

I watched videos from everyone from KVD on down where they mentioned catching inactive bass.

 

I watched videos from Paul Elias, David Fritts, & other crankbait maters talk about catching one bass from a school & that fires up the entire school.

@Catt What are your thoughts? 

[WRB]

When fishing where the water is clear enough to see the bass and know where they are it becomes clear that inactive bass dont't react to any lure or live bait. I have dropped a live crawdad on a bass and in front of them and all they do is sit there or slowly move away. The other prey fish sense this inactivity and swim near the bass without any reaction because the bass is in a sleeping-resting inactive period. Go back a hour or 2 and the baitfish are gone the is alert and smokes the crawdad before it gets within a few feet, the bass is active. 

More often the bass are in a nuetral mood can be caught by offering lures at different angles, colors, pace and those are the singles we catch most of the time making multiple casts IMO.

Tom

 

[A-Jay]

3 minutes ago, WRB said:

When fishing where the water is clear enough to see the bass and know where they are it becomes clear that inactive bass dont't react to any lure or live bait. I have dropped a live crawdad on a bass and in front of them and all they do is sit there or slowly move away. The other prey fish sense this inactivity and swim near the bass without any reaction because the bass is in a sleeping-resting inactive period. Go back a hour or 2 and the baitfish are gone the is alert and smokes the crawdad before it gets within a few feet, the bass is active. 

The more that are in a nuetral mood can be caught by offering lures at different angles, colors, pace and those are the singles we catch most of the time making multiple casts IMO.

Tom

 

This drives How, Where & especially When, I bass fish.

Every trip all season long.

A-Jay

[WRB]

Glen Lua' Big Mouth Forever vedio supports what I believe is true that bass are singles and groups/school fish. These 2 different behavior traits seperated the bass into a lber ambush fish or a wolf pack hunting group. When a wolf pack moves into a feeding area and you catch one you didin't "fire up" those bass are already active hunters. It's a special day on the water when you are at that place at the right time it's epic!

Tom

 

[A-Jay]

25 minutes ago, WRB said:

Glen Lua' Big Mouth Forever vedio supports what I believe is true that bass are singles and groups/school fish. These 2 different behavior traits seperated the bass into a lber ambush fish or a wolf pack hunting group. When a wolf pack moves into a feeding area and you catch onerous didin't "fire up" those bass are already active hunters. It's a special day on the water when you are at that place at the right time it's epic!

Tom

 

Good Read. 

While on this Brown Bass Quest ~ 

 Seems the 'right ones' are almost never alone.

There's usually at least 3 or 4 together

and on those very special places & times, it could be much, much more than that. 

As for being able to see neutral & active moods, my example revolves around brown bass that 'follow' a bait to the boat.

Neutral fish will swim behind the bait leaving a good distance between them and my presentation that never changes.

Their swim speed almost always matches the baits retrieval speed - if I stop or speed up the lure, they usually lose interest and fade back into the depths.  I do not keep fishing for these but will come back later, usually from a slightly different angle.

Active or feeding bass seem to 'track' a lure to the boat usually at a greater speed than the retrieve speed. 

They close on it in a hurry and any 'change' made by the bait is often met with a strike.

 But The Secret Sauce, is not to stop or even speed up the bait here, but instead just to slow it down a little so that the bass 'runs into the bait' - she'll often eat it without slowing down - hair jigs work magic here. 

Clear water and acute bait awareness is a must. 

 

So to keep this response on point - I'm looking at the 'posture' and attitude of following bass.

Disinterested, lazy followers, get marked for later.

Bass that charge or race at a bait, have a look that's seems similar to pelagic saltwater fish when they are 'lit up'.

While the bass don't turn florescent green or blue certainly, their pectoral fins and sharp alert movements are just screaming "Feed Me" !

At which point, I drop a way point & the Talons.

A-Jay

 

 

[Catt]

Y'all still ain't answering the question of what is a "reaction" bite.

 

I guess all the top Pros have no idea what they are talking about.

 

In Glen Lau's videos does show bass & baitfish fish in close proximity to each other but it doesn't show anglers trying to catch those bass.

 

1 hour ago, Bass Ninja said:

@Catt What are your thoughts? 

 

I think I've made my thoughts abundantly clear!

 

Here's another example

 

When punching do y'all believe the bites comes from actively feeding bass or a inactive bass the just had a lure thrust in it's face?

[MN Fisher]

2 minutes ago, Catt said:

When punching do y'all believe the bites comes from actively feeding bass or a inactive bass the just had a lure thrust in it's face?

Flip a coin?

[lo n slo]

28 minutes ago, Catt said:

Y'all still ain't answering the question of what is a "reaction" bite.

 

I guess all the top Pros have no idea what they are talking about.

 

In Glen Lau's videos does show bass & baitfish fish in close proximity to each other but it doesn't show anglers trying to catch those bass.

 

 

I think I've made my thoughts abundantly clear!

 

Here's another example

 

When punching do y'all believe the bites comes from actively feeding bass or a inactive bass the just had a lure thrust in it's face?

the fish is an opportunist, as well as territorial. just like our two dogs. the one dog hates hot dog weenies but will fight the other one to the death over one if they’re in close proximity. they also like to lay in the sun, investigate noises, and chase off intruders. animals!

[Sam]

Trial and error.

 

All I do is change my presentation to something I think will work.

 

The objective is to find the pattern for that day or hour. 

[clemsondds]

Thanks for everyone's help! 

[TnRiver46]

On 1/19/2020 at 10:36 AM, jimmyjoe said:

   I've seen days when the bass weren't hitting a certain type lure.

   I've seen days when the bass weren't hitting .... period.

  

   But I never saw days when the bass weren't there. Don't you worry; they're there.     jj

+1. If you can show me a place with no fish then I will ........ well let’s just say there’s fish everywhere. Learned this lesson the hard way with a diving mask. Fished all day no bites. Decided to go for a swim with my buddy’s mask and there were smallmouth all around 

[WRB]

As I recall the pro who 1st used the term "reaction lure" was Rich Tauber when he won the US Open at Lake Mead stating he used a Zara Spook reaction bite lure.

Will bass react to a lure acting like something they don't recognize out of curiosity or reflex response, sure. Can you tease a bass into reacting because it's angry, no. Bass don't anger emotion, they act instinctively. 

What is a reaction bite? It's a reflex or instict response from a alert bass. How do you know if a bass is active or inactive, if the strikes your lure it isn't inactive.

Finding where bass are located isn't always easy, it's often a trail and error process of elimination until you find them. I use sonar and common sense. If I can't meter anything on structure elements where I expect them to be, then I try shallower cover watching for visual clues looking for bass. Believe it or not you can actually see and hear bass and prey in shallow cover by water and cover movements.

Tom

[TnRiver46]

3 hours ago, A-Jay said:

Good Read. 

While on this Brown Bass Quest ~ 

 Seems the 'right ones' are almost never alone.

There's usually at least 3 or 4 together

and on those very special places & times, it could be much, much more than that. 

As for being able to see neutral & active moods, my example revolves around brown bass that 'follow' a bait to the boat.

Neutral fish will swim behind the bait leaving a good distance between them and my presentation that never changes.

Their swim speed almost always matches the baits retrieval speed - if I stop or speed up the lure, they usually lose interest and fade back into the depths.  I do not keep fishing for these but will come back later, usually from a slightly different angle.

Active or feeding bass seem to 'track' a lure to the boat usually at a greater speed than the retrieve speed. 

They close on it in a hurry and any 'change' made by the bait is often met with a strike.

 But The Secret Sauce, is not to stop or even speed up the bait here, but instead just to slow it down a little so that the bass 'runs into the bait' - she'll often eat it without slowing down - hair jigs work magic here. 

Clear water and acute bait awareness is a must. 

 

So to keep this response on point - I'm looking at the 'posture' and attitude of following bass.

Disinterested, lazy followers, get marked for later.

Bass that charge or race at a bait, have a look that's seems similar to pelagic saltwater fish when they are 'lit up'.

While the bass don't turn florescent green or blue certainly, their pectoral fins and sharp alert movements are just screaming "Feed Me" !

At which point, I drop a way point & the Talons.

A-Jay

 

 

Funny you would say 3-4 smallies. Every lake around here has lots of SM and LM. It seems that with the exception of one or two reservoirs, the SM is the bigger badder species. The guy that hand pours plastics for me is an old timey successful tournament fisherman. He said just about any tournament he could get 4 big SM but rarely got #5. That's why in the 2019 bassmaster classic you heard all the pros saying it would take a mixed bag to win. I want to say wheeler weighed in the only big limit of smallmouth for the whole tournament. 3 to 4 monster SM is common but 5 seems much more tricky. One of the exceptions to this will probably be the next bassmaster open on Cherokee lake where I would imagine well over half of the limits weighed will be 5 SM but not many over 4.5 lbs. 

[WRB]

Just to add to AJ's followers statement it's very common for musky anglers to "raise" a musky, meaning a follower that doesn't commit to striking. Catch anything today, no but I raised 3. This behavior is consistant with big predator fish including LMB following a lure, we see this all the time using big swimbaits. The smart angler marks the spot to return later in hopes of catching the fish that showed itself.

Tom

[Columbia Craw]

This is great dialogue !  Move or change lures ?

 

Lures are tools.  Pick a lure that cover the upper water column, mid column and the bottom when you searching.  Also work lures that move quickly, mid speed and or can be slow crawled or even dead sticked.  Once you have worked the area (zone) over, time to relocate and and start the process again.  Temperature, water clarity, structure and cover types will dictate what lure and or lure colors you select to search.  Being a retired cop, I try to be methodical and make sure "you don't pull up so fast you run over the body you are looking for!"

[Mr. Aquarium]

I fished this spot from shore for a bit not a whack using multiple lures.As soon as I switched up to this lure. ended up with the 5.9 in early March. 

[Bankbeater]

If I’m fishing a pressured lake then I will use a bait I have had luck with in the past. I’ll change up the retrieve and presentation before I will change baits.

[jimmyjoe]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

Just to add to AJ's followers statement it's very common for musky anglers to "raise" a musky, meaning a follower that doesn't commit to striking. Catch anything today, no but I raised 3. This behavior is consistant with big predator fish including LMB

   If I want to catch big bass, I switch to my set of pike lures. Now I know why it works. I always thought pike and bass were worlds apart.  They aren't.           jj

  

[papajoe222]

On 1/19/2020 at 7:34 AM, clemsondds said:

But if you are just hitting docks or riorap and just aren’t getting bit, how do you know whether the bass just aren’t in that location or it’s your choice of lures?   

Sorry, I assumed you had previously fished the docks, or rip rap.  My question to you is; why would you spend time targeting these areas if you weren’t confident that there are fish in the area???  Did you check a map prior to heading out, or have reliable, recent reports, are your electronics showing fish there? Without knowing location, everything else is speculation and you are in a search mode.  If that’s the case, changing location is the option I’d go with until you find evidence of fish. 

[Ratherbfishing]

It's a lot easier to change baits than to move to entirely new locations but sometimes it isn't necessarily big changes that need occur.  If, for instance, you've had good luck with certain baits in an area, maybe you need to downsize-or upsize.  Maybe you need to slow down or speed up.  If that doesn't work, then you might consider looking for a new/different pattern altogether-which may necessitate moving.

[WRB]

My style of fishing isn't pounding the shoreline cover or docks because the bass are not usually there where I fish. Watching MLF is educational regarding lure presentation and how fast the anglers figure out what to use where. My typical number of rods out on the deck is 4 to 5, the MLF anglers have double or triple that number. I haven't noticed any MLF pro spending time in 1 location changing to various different rods and lures, they tend to keep moving and change rods and lures at the next stop. 

My routine is the start for with what I believe is my best choice for the conditions like a jig for example. Make a few cast then pick up a deep diving crankbait followed by a finesse worm or top water lure if I am just trying to catch any size bass. If targeting big bass the jig is usually my first choice followed by a Swimbait or big worm. Changing colors with a jig is easy just change the trailer. 

The difference between the weekend angler and a tournament pro is the ability to make quick decisions. Weekenders like me tend to stay too long in one place and saturate the area with different lures, the pros do it while moving.

Tom