Aldebaran rod pairing + NRX analysis

[Manifestgtr]

I’m doing my annual cabin fever induced reel cleaning, gear evaluation...

 

I’m looking to see if anyone has a REALLY good, well balanced rod pairing for the aldebaran 50hg. The issue is...it’s so light that alllll of my rods become tip heavy as a result (and I’m not super keen on the idea of balancing kits, etc). It’s my dedicated fluke setup and since those bites can be tricky, I tend to dedicate some of my best/most sensitive gear to it.

 

ive been checking through old posts for both the aldebaran and well balanced rods. It seems as though a lot of people recommend Dobyns for balance. Maybe they have a model light enough to deal with the alde? I fish all st croix and loomis but I’m not brand loyal enough to scoff at a suggestion outside those brands (quite the contrary.

 

at any rate, here are my findings with the NRX

 

1.) My 2019 fluke setup alde/nrx803...super tip-heavy in hindsight

 

2.) 13 metanium/nrx...definitely better...I dig the weight.

 

 

3.) Scorpion xt 1000/nrx...without a doubt the winner...it might end up being a jig/worm/senko combo this year

 

 

ive come to the conclusion that the nrx, being an older design, was meant for older (or at least heavier reels). Any help with a similarly “sensitive”, lightweight, nicely balanced alternative for my aldebarans would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

Thanks, guys ?

[22RangerZ520R]

I had 10 Aldebaran 50/NRX combos and fished baits pushing 1oz with that combo and they never felt out of balance to me.  I loved the Aldebaran/NRX combo's, my only gripe was the line capacity of the Aldebaran 50.

[NorcalBassin]

Welcome to the boards! I have an Aldebaran sitting on an NRX 852 and couldn't be happier. I like the Bantam a lot better for the 893/894. The Alde also feels great on the 842 GLX if you'd rather have the MBR taper.

[WRB]

If the balance point (fulcrum center) is located at the reel seat center the weight of the reel isn't a balance factor. If the rod balance is dependant to counter balance with a weight then the reel becomes a balance factor. 

The problem with most over the counter rods is they use the same handle length regardless of the over all rod length without adding counter balance weight when biulding the rod to keep the fulcrum point at the reel seat. The reel seat needs to be moved foreward as the rod gets longer or add weight to the butt end.

Tom 

[Manifestgtr]

4 hours ago, NorcalBassin said:

Welcome to the boards! I have an Aldebaran sitting on an NRX 852 and couldn't be happier. I like the Bantam a lot better for the 893/894. The Alde also feels great on the 842 GLX if you'd rather have the MBR taper.

Thanks man : ) 

 

funny you should mention the mbr. I’ve actually been looking at those lately for entirely different reasons. I’ve never owned a glx/imx/conquest or by extension an mbr. The conquest line was what got me interested in those since they don’t come in any jwr models (yet?)

[fishwizzard]

I have a Alud 50 on a Avid 6’2” M/FX. I use it for mostly tip-down stuff so I’ve never really noticed how it balances, but it’s extremely light combo and very comfortable to palm for long periods of jerking/walking/popping. 

[bx.versatile]

Here's the balance for a Aldebaran and 7'2H Posion Adrena combo. Second picture is with a rubber table shoe slide bottom of the rod handle for more balance.

[NHBull]

For me, I am more concerned on how it feels with a lure on it, before and after the cast.  I don't think sitting in a living room is fair.  I also think you need to have it spooled with the appropriate line.  If there was a pole and reel that I wanted to use that was to tip heavy, I would add a butt weight.

Given my wrist issues, weight is more important than balance and can't say I have experienced the latter

[newyorktoiowa57]

1 hour ago, AnotherSenkoQuestion said:

Here's the balance for a Aldebaran and 7'2H Posion Adrena combo. Second picture is with a rubber table shoe slide bottom of the rod handle for more balance.

How are you liking that model adrena/what have you been using it for?

[newyorktoiowa57]

2 hours ago, AnotherSenkoQuestion said:

I only had 2 outings with it, since it took a few months to get the rods. But it's my favorite rods right now.

 

So far using for Jigs and TRigs and love it so far. In my hands, more sensitive than Expride, not sure how it compares with a Conquest/NRX until I fish it more. It has a fast action with still a lot of power for how light it is.

 

The handle slips more than the usual foam/cork when wet. When I swam a Jack Hammer near the boat, the sound waves transferred to the monocoque handle, it was pretty sweet, proving the handle works in terms of vibration transfer.

 

I just received the 7"3 MH two months after the 7'2 H and it looks and feels the same initially, but the bend is a bit softer. Probably why it's rated at MH. Time will tell, once I fish it more. I plan to use T-rigs, chatterbaits, and swim jigs for now.

 

I wished they made a 7" M Spinning model, would be instant buy for me.

Thanks for the feedback!  I know they are going to come out with more models at some point this year, but not sure when

 

[Manifestgtr]

4 hours ago, NHBull said:

For me, I am more concerned on how it feels with a lure on it, before and after the cast.  I don't think sitting in a living room is fair.  I also think you need to have it spooled with the appropriate line.  If there was a pole and reel that I wanted to use that was to tip heavy, I would add a butt weight.

Given my wrist issues, weight is more important than balance and can't say I have experienced the latter

Yeah, I guess I wasn’t clear on that point. The reason I’d even considered this on the off season was because of the number of times last year I’d had this exact thought: 

 

“man...this combo is so light and you can feel everything going on. I just wish it wasn’t tip heavy”

 

the reason the balance weighed on me so much is that my fluking cadence happens right down near the water’s surface so doing that little bit of extra work to keep the rod tip out of the water is fine for a half hour. After four hours, it becomes something you think about. This is really the only combo that I had on the list of “things to research” during the winter. 

[jbsoonerfan]

I'm struggling to comprehend all this "rod balance" in my living room stuff. Why does it matter if your rod balances in your living room? All that goes out the window as soon as you put a lure on it. As soon as that lure is 75 feet away or 20 feet away. What if that lure weighs 1/8 oz or 3/4 oz? If you are fishing a tip down presentation, does it even matter if it is "tip heavy"? If your rod weighs 4 oz how much weight is on the tip that just wears a person out? Every time this thread comes up I can't help but wonder if this is a question about how the rod actually performs and feels on the water or simply winter boredom. 

[Tennessee Boy]

On 1/7/2020 at 12:51 AM, WRB said:

If the balance point (fulcrum center) is located at the reel seat center the weight of the reel isn't a balance factor.

This is true when the rod is horizontal.  When held vertical the center of gravity of the reel is an inch or so from the rod and causes torque.  The amount of torque changes with the angle of the rod and is greater with spinning reels since the center of gravity is further from the rod.  Torque is measured as force times distance (usually in foot pounds) and since the weight of any lure is a great distance from the fulcrum,  the torque caused by it dwarfs all others on the rod.  Many people get enjoyment from having a rod that is balanced when held horizontally with no lure attached so I guess the physics doesn’t really matter in that case.

[fishwizzard]

1 hour ago, jbsoonerfan said:

I'm struggling to comprehend all this "rod balance" in my living room stuff. Why does it matter if your rod balances in your living room? All that goes out the window as soon as you put a lure on it. As soon as that lure is 75 feet away or 20 feet away. What if that lure weighs 1/8 oz or 3/4 oz? If you are fishing a tip down presentation, does it even matter if it is "tip heavy"? If your rod weighs 4 oz how much weight is on the tip that just wears a person out? Every time this thread comes up I can't help but wonder if this is a question about how the rod actually performs and feels on the water or simply winter boredom. 

It really depends on the presentation your fishing. If I’m fishing a jig/t-rig where it’s sitting on the bottom with a semi slack line, so combo balance become more desirable as I’m standing there trying to hold the rod fairly motionless an upward angle.

[jbsoonerfan]

2 minutes ago, fishwizzard said:

It really depends on the presentation your fishing. If I’m fishing a jig/t-rig where it’s sitting on the bottom with a semi slack line, so combo balance become more desirable as I’m standing there trying to hold the rod fairly motionless an upward angle.

I understand that. What I don't understand is why holding it horizontal and trying to make it balance matters. No one fishes with one finger on the rod balancing it. Your hand holding the rod offsets any balance there would be, so to me it doesn't matter where a rod balances. BTW I have tried this with Curados, Chronarchs, Cores, Mets, Aldes, etc. on Zodias, Crucials, Poison Adrenas, Cumaras, etc. and the balance point is never more than an inch or two one way or the other and I bet the same can be said for any rod/reel combo.

[WRB]

Many factors are in play but anglers evaluate rod balance horizontally independant of any torque that is neutralized by how the rod-reel is held. The common statement being it's tip heavy without a lure attached or how it's actually used, help tip up with a lure attached creating leverage.

Not many anglers or rod makers take the laws of physics in to account, everyone understands the difference of how it feels to them.

Simply look at the photos in this thread showing precieved balance, the reels are upside down, who holds the baitcasting outfits in that position, nobody.

If torque bothers the angler then the guide train should be Roberts spiral wrapped. 

Dobyns understood rod balance is more important then the lightest weight by adding counter balance weight into the rod build.

Tom

[fishwizzard]

15 minutes ago, jbsoonerfan said:

I understand that. What I don't understand is why holding it horizontal and trying to make it balance matters. No one fishes with one finger on the rod balancing it.

It’s to give you a way to compare different rod and reel combos at home.  The closer the balance point is to the center of the reel seat, the more the rod tends to “float” when I am palming the reel with the rod tip aimed up.  I find that reel/reelseat

ergonomics is more important to me then balance or overall combo weight, but when bank fishing I am holding a single combo for 4-7 hours, so every bit of added comfort helps. 

[Manifestgtr]

7 hours ago, jbsoonerfan said:

I'm struggling to comprehend all this "rod balance" in my living room stuff. Why does it matter if your rod balances in your living room? All that goes out the window as soon as you put a lure on it. As soon as that lure is 75 feet away or 20 feet away. What if that lure weighs 1/8 oz or 3/4 oz? If you are fishing a tip down presentation, does it even matter if it is "tip heavy"? If your rod weighs 4 oz how much weight is on the tip that just wears a person out? Every time this thread comes up I can't help but wonder if this is a question about how the rod actually performs and feels on the water or simply winter boredom. 

 

Yes, it does matter in a tip down orientation...to me at least. As explained before, this “issue” becomes apparent after a while of tip down fishing, when keeping the tip out of the water starts to distract from “presenting” as it were. 

 

The living room stuff is a consequence of it being January in the northeast, so I’m taking my reels apart and shuffling my gear around. 

[bwjay]

I want a rod that balances as close to the reel seat as possible, for the same reasons as fishwizzard. A rod that is tip heavy without a lure on it is going to be MORE tip heavy with a lure on it. When you are slow dragging a jig on bottom, making little hops, which is all in the wrist, you want to have to apply as little torque as possible. If it takes a lot of effort just to keep the tip up (and slowly move it upwards), you might not feel a light bite or if slack gets knocked into your line because your wrist is "straining" to apply upward force and has reduced sensitivity. If you are just barely applying pressure to drag a jig, you're going to feel if it suddenly jumps a little bit more than if you're applying a decent bit of pressure to drag said jig. I get that anything over 1/8oz is going to require a decent amount of effort to pull upwards, there is nothing anyone can do about that, but it's about going for the best balance possible, because it only makes things worse if it's unbalanced. For some techniques (moving baits, topwater) it doesn't matter, but for others, it is of great importance.

 

And to the guys complaining about it being in the living room and not on the water, the balance of the rod doesn't change when you go out on the water. You can know that the force due to having a line and lure pulling on the tip is going to be a constant no matter which rod you use, so the only variable is the balance of the rod, which can be tested in one's living room.

[CrankFate]

On 1/6/2020 at 12:16 AM, Manifestgtr said:

I’m doing my annual cabin fever induced reel cleaning, gear evaluation...

 

I’m looking to see if anyone has a REALLY good, well balanced rod pairing for the aldebaran 50hg. The issue is...it’s so light that alllll of my rods become tip heavy as a result (and I’m not super keen on the idea of balancing kits, etc). It’s my dedicated fluke setup and since those bites can be tricky, I tend to dedicate some of my best/most sensitive gear to it.

 

ive been checking through old posts for both the aldebaran and well balanced rods. It seems as though a lot of people recommend Dobyns for balance. Maybe they have a model light enough to deal with the alde? I fish all st croix and loomis but I’m not brand loyal enough to scoff at a suggestion outside those brands (quite the contrary.

 

at any rate, here are my findings with the NRX

 

1.) My 2019 fluke setup alde/nrx803...super tip-heavy in hindsight

 

2.) 13 metanium/nrx...definitely better...I dig the weight.

 

 

3.) Scorpion xt 1000/nrx...without a doubt the winner...it might end up being a jig/worm/senko combo this year

 

 

ive come to the conclusion that the nrx, being an older design, was meant for older (or at least heavier reels). Any help with a similarly “sensitive”, lightweight, nicely balanced alternative for my aldebarans would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

Thanks, guys ?

You know, I would appreciate it if these posts could be locked. Because I have a rod that balances said reel perfectly. Because it’s a custom Kistler magnesium, with a longer butt section and Foregrip. Those things eliminate tip heaviness and give more power to whip the rod on hard casts. They also remind me that now that Kistler brought back the custom rods, I probably will not be able to resist ordering another one.

 

 

[Manifestgtr]

3 hours ago, CrankFate said:

You know, I would appreciate it if these posts could be locked. Because I have a rod that balances said reel perfectly. Because it’s a custom Kistler magnesium, with a longer butt section and Foregrip. Those things eliminate tip heaviness and give more power to whip the rod on hard casts. They also remind me that now that Kistler brought back the custom rods, I probably will not be able to resist ordering another one.

 

 

whoa...

 

I’m gonna look into that. That’s almost PRECISELY what I’m looking for. 

 

[CrankFate]

On 1/9/2020 at 1:09 AM, Manifestgtr said:

whoa...

 

I’m gonna look into that. That’s almost PRECISELY what I’m looking for. 

 

I will at some point order another for a different, heavier application, but ask them to use the tapered piece below the reel as the Foregrip, with the taper towards the rod tip.

[NALIP0351]

On 1/8/2020 at 6:29 AM, Tennessee Boy said:

This is true when the rod is horizontal.  When held vertical the center of gravity of the reel is an inch or so from the rod and causes torque.  The amount of torque changes with the angle of the rod and is greater with spinning reels since the center of gravity is further from the rod.  Torque is measured as force times distance (usually in foot pounds) and since the weight of any lure is a great distance from the fulcrum,  the torque caused by it dwarfs all others on the rod.  Many people get enjoyment from having a rod that is balanced when held horizontally with no lure attached so I guess the physics doesn’t really matter in that case.

Makes perfect sense

[RDB]

This is a personal preference thing.  I have an Aldebaran on a NRX and a Z-Bone and they are both great for me.  You are looking at a combo weight of less than 9oz and there are other factors that influence…how you hold the rod, tip up v. tip down, living room v. on the water.  I personally assign little to no value to the finger balance test and the one size fits all center of the reel seat thinking.  On baitcasters, I hold a reel with all fingers above the rear trigger for bottom contact and two fingers in front of the reel while my brother holds with 3 fingers below the trigger.  Balance is going to feel different to me v. him.  I personally prefer lighter weight combos and have never added weight to a rod.  G. Loomis is generally known to have more tip heavy rods but I have a lot of “higher end” rods and I don’t feel any different after a day of fishing whether I am using a Loomis, Steez, or Z-Bone.  Anytime you hear something is supposed to be XYZ in fishing, just smile, nod your head, and figure out what XYZ is supposed to be for you.

[PhishLI]

50 minutes ago, RDB said:

Anytime you hear something is supposed to be XYZ in fishing, just smile, nod your head, and figure out what XYZ is supposed to be for you.

Ain't that the truth.