Casting Rod Help: Daiwa Tatula SV TWS for Senko/Wacky/Weightless

[Corey T]

Hi all! 

 

Im looking at getting a Tatula SV TWS to help me throw weightless or light tackle. I might try ned rigs but my main focus is a wacky or weightless rig. I've just got into fishing in the past couple of years and have made a lot of great memories along the way but my frustration continues to be throwing weightless worms. I've been trying to throw on a MH Carbonlite 2.0 combo and fail miserable unless I'm throwing a heavy 5/O worm hook with. 

 

I've been looking at Tatula Elite casting rods to pair with. My understanding is that I will do much better with a ML so the rod can load up. The confusion is that a lot of rods that are claimed to be for worms are usually medium or medium heavy. 

 

The Tatula Elite comes in a Medium Light with a "Regular" Taper. The lure weight is 1/4-5/8oz. They label this as:

TAEL691MLRB	Seth Feider	LIGHT TOPWATER /JERKBAIT	ML	R	6'9"	1	8-14	1/4-5/8	Fuji®Alconite

 

The other option could be:

TAEL701MMHXB-AGS	Brent Ehrler	FINESSE	M-MH	XF	7'0"	1	8-20	1/8-1	DAIWA AGS®

 

(This was pulled from the Daiwa site: https://www.daiwa.com/us/contents/rods/tatula_elite/index.html)

 

Would I be crazy to look at the Feider vs. the Ehrler? Do I just need to practice more with something other than a BPS rod? Also, should I be as concerned as I am about the "Regular" taper vs. the extra fast taper?

 

Finally... I definitely want to stick with a baitcaster. I'm personally much more comfortable with a baitcaster than a spinning set up. 

 

Thanks, all!

 

[Junger]

Definitely the Ehrler 7’ M/MH AGS.

[txchaser]

Weightless trick worms or senkos?

 

If it's a 5" Senko it is something like 3/8oz. I use a Tatula SV on about half my rods. I find the senko loads just fine on either a LMH/F (in my case a kistler LMH/XF) or a softer-tip MH - my crankbait rod works in a pinch, and my fuego that's supposed to be a MH/F but doesn't have much backbone until mid-rod works too. Threw the senko on the cranking rod today because I had a small paddletail on the LMH already. I use 2/0 or 3/0 owner CPS light, so the hookset is not much more than a reel-down and a little bit of a sweep anyway.

 

Hopefully someone with the Ehrler rod can chime in, "1/8-1oz" isn't a real range unless it is is made from unicorn dust and bait monkey tears.

 

 

I think you'll hate the ML on a senko - it looks like it's built for trebles and will be super floppy. Combine that with being a ML and it'll feel overloaded. 

 

 

[Dens228]

I throw weightless plastics on a Med/Fast rod.   BassX to be exact.  

[drew4779]

Weird?...I've never had a problem tossing a weightless 4" senko with a 3/0 hook with a MH/F rod.  I dont have a bps carbonite rod but my brother does, and he seems to do fine with it (I think he usually uses 4/0 hooks).  Senkos are heavy for a plastic.  It's not going to fly like a lipless crank, but you should be able to toss it an effective distance.  What line are you using? 

 

Note:  I'm tossing a weightless t-rigged senko 99% of the time, not a wacky rig.

[LCG]

I have the Carbonite 2.0 MH-XF rod and it throws senkos fine. However, I prefer spinning gear for wacky rigged senkos, a Carbonite 2.0 6'8 M-XF.

 

Now a Zoom Trickworm is too light for the baitcasting set up, but a senko should be no problem at all.

 

I am using a Daiwa Fuego CT and 30 lb braid and a 4/0 EWG as a point of reference. Usually texas rigged, weightless. 

 

As for action, I seem to prefer xf, but fast is considered by most to be more universal. 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Thin trick worms are light but a salty bait like a senko is heavier than many realize. I throw 4 & 5 inch senkos on casting gear with no problem at all. 

[NorthernBasser]

Just to chime in, you'd have a heck of a time throwing ned rigs on casting gear. IMO ned rigs should 100% be fished on spinning. Unless of course you're fish heavy/magnum jig heads/worms. 

[Bluebasser86]

1 hour ago, NorthernBasser said:

Just to chime in, you'd have a heck of a time throwing ned rigs on casting gear. IMO ned rigs should 100% be fished on spinning. Unless of course you're fish heavy/magnum jig heads/worms. 

There's quite a few guys that use casting gear for Ned rigs, but it's more BFS gear than traditional casting equipment.

 

I agree that it's much better suited for spinning gear, but it can easily be done with the right equipment.

[new2BC4bass]

Kistler has a few rods rated 1/8-1/2 oz.  Lew's has a few rated 3/16-5/8 oz.  From what I've read the Phenix Feather rods fish light.  However, I have zero experience with all three brands so I can't give any helpful advice on them.

 

A few days ago I received a Genesis II 7' MHF (the 703C MH all purpose model).  It is rated 3/16-3/8 oz.  Obviously I've not had a chance to use it yet.  Quote from Outdoor Pro Shop: "It is a perfect rod for: worms, jerkbaits, poppers, senkos and flukes and traps."

 

I questioned that rating being a MH as it fits more into the ML range for me.  So I asked iRod.  Quote from Matt Newman: "You can fish heavier and lighter than the rating and you will be fine. The 703C is a true MH and actually has a decent back bone."

 

I am thinking this might be a good option for what you are looking to do.  It is a very nice looking rod and pretty light.

[FryDog62]

Ok, I’ve been through a 3 year process to get where you are... Hope I can help...

 

I finesse fish a lot and always used spinning gear until a wrist injury and 3 surgeries required me to switch and fish 100% now with a baitcaster.  I’ve tried a ton of things to get the right gear but I think I’m close.  
 

First the reel, I think you’re completely on the right track to use the Daiwa SV reels.  The Tatula and Zillion SV TW reels are very nice but I think are best with a little weight - I’d say 3/16 (plus the plastic) and heavier.  I wouldn’t recommend those reels for a 1/8 Ned rig or skipping a weightless wacky worm. Believe me I tried and it worked intermittently but not consistently.  
 

The best reel for super light stuff is a Steez SV TW.  Yep, expensive but it’s the gold standard.  I can skip a weightless wacky worm 99% as well as any spinning outfit once dialed in.  
 

If the Steez is too expensive, then I recommend a Daiwa Alpha CT SV which is priced right in between the Tatula and Zillion (approx $250, check out Digitaka site).  It does not have a T-Wing but I haven’t found it to be a problem.  I use this to cast 1/8 Neds and to drop-shot.  Heckuva reel. 
 

To do finesse with a baitcaster well requires the ability to palm/maneuver the reel easily.  The Steez and Alpha are smaller and much easier to “work the lure” than the bulkier Tatula, and even the Zillion.  
 

Regarding rods - yes, another long process but dialed in now.  The one rig I struggled most with was to skip weightless wacky worms.  The Steez helped tremendously but I started out using a 6’8” Medium Extra Fast.  I didn’t backlash any more but lacked distance.  So I now use one of two 7’1” rods - a Loomis NRX MXF 852 and a Phenix Feather Medium-Light Fast... and now get the added distance a spinning rod does. Two different price points, both excellent rods.  
 

Here are my finesse baitcasting set ups:

 

•NRX 852/Steez SV TW for weightless wacky worm fishing and skipping.  (Phenix 7-1 ML would work well too)

•Alpha SV with either Phenix Feather 7-1 MLF or 7-1 MHXF for Neko rigging or tubes depending on how heavy surrounding cover is

•Alpha SV on Phenix 7-1 MLF for drop-shot

•Alpha SV on 6’10” MajorCraft Don Iovino MXF for Ned Rigs. Great when a shorter rod is desired, closer to a Medium-Light. 

•Tatula SV TW on a Tatula Elite Ehrler 7’0” M-MH XF for Caffeine Shads (very heavy plastic) on Owner Twistlock Light 3/32 oz weighted hooks

You mentioned the Tatula Ehrler in your original post but it is a Medium-Medium Heavy extra fast and might work ok for weightless stuff but is probably a bit too powerful/stiff IMO. I don’t have the Feider rod, but am not sure that’s the right taper for what you want to do.   

[Derek1]

I cast weightless senco’s and rage craws rather well with a Mh carbonlite And currado combo. Senco’s a easy 80/90 feet and the rage craws a bit less but plenty far enough. 

[Corey T]

19 hours ago, FryDog62 said:

Ok, I’ve been through a 3 year process to get where you are... Hope I can help...

 

I finesse fish a lot and always used spinning gear until a wrist injury and 3 surgeries required me to switch and fish 100% now with a baitcaster.  I’ve tried a ton of things to get the right gear but I think I’m close.  
 

First the reel, I think you’re completely on the right track to use the Daiwa SV reels.  The Tatula and Zillion SV TW reels are very nice but I think are best with a little weight - I’d say 3/16 (plus the plastic) and heavier.  I wouldn’t recommend those reels for a 1/8 Ned rig or skipping a weightless wacky worm. Believe me I tried and it worked intermittently but not consistently.  
 

The best reel for super light stuff is a Steez SV TW.  Yep, expensive but it’s the gold standard.  I can skip a weightless wacky worm 99% as well as any spinning outfit once dialed in.  
 

If the Steez is too expensive, then I recommend a Daiwa Alpha CT SV which is priced right in between the Tatula and Zillion (approx $250, check out Digitaka site).  It does not have a T-Wing but I haven’t found it to be a problem.  I use this to cast 1/8 Neds and to drop-shot.  Heckuva reel. 
 

To do finesse with a baitcaster well requires the ability to palm/maneuver the reel easily.  The Steez and Alpha are smaller and much easier to “work the lure” than the bulkier Tatula, and even the Zillion.  
 

Regarding rods - yes, another long process but dialed in now.  The one rig I struggled most with was to skip weightless wacky worms.  The Steez helped tremendously but I started out using a 6’8” Medium Extra Fast.  I didn’t backlash any more but lacked distance.  So I now use one of two 7’1” rods - a Loomis NRX MXF 852 and a Phenix Feather Medium-Light Fast... and now get the added distance a spinning rod does. Two different price points, both excellent rods.  
 

Here are my finesse baitcasting set ups:

 

•NRX 852/Steez SV TW for weightless wacky worm fishing and skipping.  (Phenix 7-1 ML would work well too)

•Alpha SV with either Phenix Feather 7-1 MLF or 7-1 MHXF for Neko rigging or tubes depending on how heavy surrounding cover is

•Alpha SV on Phenix 7-1 MLF for drop-shot

•Alpha SV on 6’10” MajorCraft Don Iovino MXF for Ned Rigs. Great when a shorter rod is desired, closer to a Medium-Light. 

•Tatula SV TW on a Tatula Elite Ehrler 7’0” M-MH XF for Caffeine Shads (very heavy plastic) on Owner Twistlock Light 3/32 oz weighted hooks

You mentioned the Tatula Ehrler in your original post but it is a Medium-Medium Heavy extra fast and might work ok for weightless stuff but is probably a bit too powerful/stiff IMO. I don’t have the Feider rod, but am not sure that’s the right taper for what you want to do.   

This is exactly along the lines of what I am looking for! The Steez SV TW paired with the NRX 852 is definitely out of my budget but I might stretch it a little for the Steez SV TW with the Phenix. Skipping that wacky rig is 90% of what I am going for here. Do you think it would be worth looking at the CT SV? 

 

Can you tell me what line you are using for some context? What size hook are you using with that set up? Most of my fishing is with a bladed jig, crankbait or jerkbait on M or MH rods. I'm trying to diversify and know I need to downsize my hook and change my hook set. I don't want to loose action on the wacky worm if I go too light on the hook and I also don't want to be bending the hook. At the same time, I would guess that lighter is better. Do you mess with the drag much?

 

In your opinion, would this set up also throw ned rigs? 

 

I genuinely appreciate the help. 

[Junger]

I use the 7’ M/MH Ehrler with a SV105 and it is very versatile. It has a soft tip and will be fine for worms, jerkbaits, chatterbaits, and 1/8+TRD ned rigs. It’s my go to bank fishing rod because it pretty much does everything, including swimbaits at 7/8 oz.

[FryDog62]

On 1/6/2020 at 8:25 AM, Midwest Big Bass said:

This is exactly along the lines of what I am looking for! The Steez SV TW paired with the NRX 852 is definitely out of my budget but I might stretch it a little for the Steez SV TW with the Phenix. Skipping that wacky rig is 90% of what I am going for here. Do you think it would be worth looking at the CT SV? 

 

Can you tell me what line you are using for some context? What size hook are you using with that set up? Most of my fishing is with a bladed jig, crankbait or jerkbait on M or MH rods. I'm trying to diversify and know I need to downsize my hook and change my hook set. I don't want to loose action on the wacky worm if I go too light on the hook and I also don't want to be bending the hook. At the same time, I would guess that lighter is better. Do you mess with the drag much?

 

In your opinion, would this set up also throw ned rigs? 

 

I genuinely appreciate the help. 

I think the Steez SV TW and Phenix Feather 7-1 MLF would work very well for wacky rigging and skipping. The Phenix and Loomis are very similar in terms of power even though they are rated ML and Medium. The primary difference is the taper being fast on the Phenix and XF on the NRX.  Actually I think the Phenix may load slightly better with a weightless worm, the same I prefer when trying to get distance when throwing a light Ned rig. 

 

Here are my line/hook set ups:

 

• NRX/Steez for wacky.  VMC Neko hook "weedless" Size 1, not to be confused with 1/0 (best roof-of-the-mouth hooking rig I've ever used - and keeps them pinned!).  I use high viz braid with a fluorocarbon leader.  Okay, I push the boundaries on the line diameter of braid to use on a bait caster.  Most say don't go below 30 lb or you risk "burying" the braid in the spool.  Maybe, but for finesse (and better distance skipping weightless) I use 20 lb braid and I've had very little problem with burying.  Just make sure you pull out some line and make sure its free and clear after a snag (or hopefully a big fish).  I use Sufix 832 high viz 20 lb and any 8 lb flouro leader for just wacky worming.  If I'm around dock posts, overhangs, my leader is 8 lb Yo-Zuri Hybrid (thicker than flouro but tough as nails against abrasion, awesome knot holding too). 
• Phenix MLF or MHXF/Alpha for Neko rigging. Size 2 (not 2/0) VMC weedless Neko hook. I use straight fluorocarbon - 10 lb Berkely Vanish TRANSITION Fluorocarbon.  Invisible underwater and some color above to detect bites on the way down, which happens a lot. 
• Phenix Feather 7-1 MLF/Alpha for drop-shot: VMC "Spin-shot" Neko hook size 4. Sunline Sniper fluorocarbon 7 lb test.  Plan to use this rod/line set up for spy baits this coming year too.  
• Majorcraft Iovino/Alpha for Ned: 20 lb Sufix 832 High-viz + 7 lb Sniper fluorocarbon.  Since these rigs are so light and I like to experiment, I may try a "sinking braid" next season to see if it helps keep the lighter Ned rigs down in deeper water: YGK G-Soul SS112 Yellow 20 lb.  We'll see... may try this braid on the wacky rig too.
• Tat Ehrler/Tat SV TW for 5 inch Caffeine Shads - Sunline Sniper 14 pound test with - and this is key - 4/0 Owner Twistlock Light 3/32 oz weighted hook.  Swims horizontally on its own, changes direction, dying action unbeatable.  Skips even better than wacky worms.  #1 fish catcher for me the last 2 years. 

Any other Q's - feel free to send me a PM.  Thx