BPT / MLF Format Rules Needs To Change !!

[Hawkeye21]

They were discussing the MLF on BTL this morning.  Sounds like they are going to focus on education more this year and talking about lures and techniques. 

[RichF]

44 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

They were discussing the MLF on BTL this morning.  Sounds like they are going to focus on education more this year and talking about lures and techniques. 

No need.  Shakey head, drop shot, vibrating jig....done! haha

[SC53]

4 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

They were discussing the MLF on BTL this morning.  Sounds like they are going to focus on education more this year and talking about lures and techniques. 

That would be a pleasant surprise.  They need this change.

[ChrisD46]

18 hours ago, jbsoonerfan said:

And when Takahiro finds you, he might get in the boat with you and ask to borrow a lure. 

+1 ... Takahiro is ALWAYS in the finals ! I saw MLF Louisiana event footage where I thought Takahiro was Jacob Wheeler's "non - boater" !!  ... I had to do a double take to see Takahiro was actually in his own boat (lol !!)

[OCdockskipper]

With the assistance of hindsight, I would suggest that MLF made a mistake when they used the MLF structure for the BPT tournaments.

 

What made MLF successful for TV was (is) placing pro's on an unknown lake and watching them figure out the puzzle.  Heck, they even have a sponsored title intro to it every week (General Tires anywhere is possible).  In that scenario, making every fish count fits with the structure of the tournament.

 

By comparison, BPT allows practice and has multiple days of fishing on the same lake, so the every fish counts scenario doesn't work as well.  I believe if Boyd Duckett had made the BPT "stage" tournaments regular best of 5 tournaments, it would have worked better.  Keep the scoretracker and keep the catch/weigh/release, but he shouldn't have changed the scoring system for these tournaments.

 

The MLF cups could have stayed as they are now, the reward for doing well in a pair of stages.  They stay their own entity and would continue to be good TV.  The BPT feeds the Cups as well as the Redcrest Championship, which also stays best of 5.

 

If Duckett had really wanted to take down BASS, could you imagine if he had basically the same format for his tournaments, with the advent of instant scoring & release and a huge portion of the Elite field doing it.  His choice to try to expand the MLF format via BPT in essence allowed BASS to catch its breath and not get knocked out of the water (pun intended) by new competition.

[RichF]

1 hour ago, OCdockskipper said:

By comparison, BPT allows practice and has multiple days of fishing on the same lake, so the every fish counts scenario doesn't work as well.

I couldn't agree more, especially after watch the live footage from Chickamauga.  This tournament was right during the spawn and most fish were coming off beds. The guys were fishing the same spots for multiple days and definitely catching many of the same fish over and over.  

[Hawkeye21]

On 1/18/2020 at 12:35 PM, OCdockskipper said:

With the assistance of hindsight, I would suggest that MLF made a mistake when they used the MLF structure for the BPT tournaments.

 

What made MLF successful for TV was (is) placing pro's on an unknown lake and watching them figure out the puzzle.  Heck, they even have a sponsored title intro to it every week (General Tires anywhere is possible).  In that scenario, making every fish count fits with the structure of the tournament.

 

By comparison, BPT allows practice and has multiple days of fishing on the same lake, so the every fish counts scenario doesn't work as well.  I believe if Boyd Duckett had made the BPT "stage" tournaments regular best of 5 tournaments, it would have worked better.  Keep the scoretracker and keep the catch/weigh/release, but he shouldn't have changed the scoring system for these tournaments.

 

The MLF cups could have stayed as they are now, the reward for doing well in a pair of stages.  They stay their own entity and would continue to be good TV.  The BPT feeds the Cups as well as the Redcrest Championship, which also stays best of 5.

 

If Duckett had really wanted to take down BASS, could you imagine if he had basically the same format for his tournaments, with the advent of instant scoring & release and a huge portion of the Elite field doing it.  His choice to try to expand the MLF format via BPT in essence allowed BASS to catch its breath and not get knocked out of the water (pun intended) by new competition.

I don't think Duckett's goal is to knock out BASS.  It's better to have both than it is for one of them to fail.

[OCdockskipper]

12 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I don't think Duckett's goal is to knock out BASS.  It's better to have both than it is for one of them to fail.

I don't know if that was his goal, it just appeared that way when he poached a good portion of the Elite series roster to fill out his stable.

 

The original MLF mission statement on the old MLF website out & out stated that the goal of MLF was to complement BASS & FLW, not compete with them.  Whether Duckett was sandbagging back then or if he felt he had to change when BASS turned down the chance to incorporate MLF into their tournament structure is something I don't know.

[Hawkeye21]

10 hours ago, OCdockskipper said:

I don't know if that was his goal, it just appeared that way when he poached a good portion of the Elite series roster to fill out his stable.

 

The original MLF mission statement on the old MLF website out & out stated that the goal of MLF was to complement BASS & FLW, not compete with them.  Whether Duckett was sandbagging back then or if he felt he had to change when BASS turned down the chance to incorporate MLF into their tournament structure is something I don't know.

I never saw it as him poaching people from BASS.  From what I saw, the anglers were not happy with BASS and were ready for a change.  MLF was built by the anglers and meant to benefit them.  The fishing format may not be for all of them but financial format sure seemed to.

 

In the next few years I think we'll see things settle into place more and they will complement each other well.  We will see more BPT guys go back to BASS and we'll most likely see some BASS guys leave for the BPT.  I think the BPT has helped shake things up for the better and we're in for some exciting years of professional bass fishing.

[OCdockskipper]

16 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I never saw it as him poaching people from BASS...

According to the interviews from Gerald Swindle, Scott Martin & others, Elite anglers were the initial target to fill the roster and it was sold to them using alot of peer pressure and a quick deadline.  That is the definition of poaching.

 

Don't get me wrong, it did expose underlying issues with the way BASS had allowed the Elite series to run and forced changes faster than would have happened had Duckett not started BPT.  That was a good thing.  I also agree that competition is good for the consumer, but the fact that it is good doesn't always mean that those who are competing are doing it ethically.

[Hawkeye21]

2 minutes ago, OCdockskipper said:

According to the interviews from Gerald Swindle, Scott Martin & others, Elite anglers were the initial target to fill the roster and it was sold to them using alot of peer pressure and a quick deadline.  That is the definition of poaching.

 

Don't get me wrong, it did expose underlying issues with the way BASS had allowed the Elite series to run and forced changes faster than would have happened had Duckett not started BPT.  That was a good thing.  I also agree that competition is good for the consumer, but the fact that it is good doesn't always mean that those who are competing are doing it ethically.

You have a point, but they never would have left if BASS didn't have it's issues and they didn't think they could benefit more fishing BPT.  

[J Francho]

Poaching usually means something illegal. 

 

"any encroachment on another's property, rights, ideas, or the like."

 

I guess you could consider the angler talent "property"?  I mean, people leave jobs for better jobs all the time.  I'm contacted by recruiters constantly.  Is it poaching? 

[jbsoonerfan]

No matter how bad people seem to dislike BPT/MLF (and apparently a lot of people do) the anglers thought it was in their best interest to move away from BASS and give this new format a shot. We have already seen 2 anglers decide it wasn't for them and they moved back to BASS, which is again a personal choice. I just see it as people doing whatever they think is best for whatever reason, but most of us know it probably had something to do with money. None of us know what "deals" or "promises" were made to these guys (some here think they do) so we really don't know the reasons for the mass exodus of BASS. I just don't get the disdain or resentment toward this new trail. 

[Rpratt]

Ok, here is my opinion for it's worth from my observations, mainly from the responses here on the reasons why people are so against MLF. And as a side note I am gonna say straight from the hip, I do NOT in any way mean any disrespect to any person on this board! We are all anglers and have our own minds and feelings, and I respect those opinions. 

 

1. Some  people just do not embrace change. Dinkfest is a term that is thrown around quite a bit. And some times I do agree with that. Alot of people just want the best 5 limit and that's it. That's fine. I get it. MLF started the tour as the 1lb minimum as a different format, opposed to the other. What's so wrong about that? It's THEIR tour. Just different rules for the same sport. I find it at times just amazing that they can go-to these lakes and just catch so many freaking fish in a day/week that consistently. Anyone here IMHO that says they do it all the time, well I agree you can go out and catch alot, but to be that consistent? On all these different lakes under the pressure of that scoretracker? Come on....

 

2. People are kind of miffed that guy's they grew up or have followed for years jumped ship. Oh I get that one. The Classic is coming up and I totally agree. The Redcrest is NOT the classic. Not even close. At least not for a long while. I want to see the biggest and baddest at the Classic. And although BASS does have some great sticks, it's just that a majority of them we are just getting to know. Again, it's not the same. Not yet.

 

3. We have seen a couple of anglers go back. Will we see more? I don't know. Swindle from an interview I saw said he just wanted more free time. I can speak for that comment to possibly being completely true. Why? I just spoke not too long ago to Brent Chapman, and actually I was berating him for not having me on his show Pro vs Joe. I know he is scared of me, but.... Well he told he could not even film the show last season because he just do not have time. Think about it, you have the 8 or 9 tournaments, plus if you qualify, 4 cup events for the MLF TV show. You are looking at alot of time from home and I have not even talked about the other commitments for sponsors, travel and such. Either way, I don't lose any respect for any angler of they go or stay because they are doing what they feel they need to do not only as a profession, but for their families. Alot of times it is about the money. Can't fault anyone for that. An old example I have used on the past is this. Let's say you caught Mark McGwires record setting home run ball. Do you return it or sell it for a few million? At first I would say oh heck I do the morally correct thing and return it and get an autographed ball and bat. However how do you go home and tell your wife, hey I caught that ball and instead of us being financialy set for the rest of our lives, I got this cool autographed ball! I am pretty sure she would make me feel really stupid in 5...4...3...2....1...

 

The same would apply in most anyone's home. Do the best you can financialy and what's best for family. They are yours, take care of them when you have the opportunity to do so.

 

The BPT tour is making a few changes. Hopefully that helps them avoid being the dreaded Dinkfest. I don't think it's going to mollify the 5 best crowd, but again, if that is what ya like, then support the tour that does. I plan on supporting all the tours. Because I just honestly love to watch. 

 

/Me steps off my humble soap box

[Tennessee Boy]

Do people really hate the BPT?  I've made many negative post about their scoring system.  A lot of people have.  That doesn't mean I'm not a fan.  I'm a big college football fan and I have my opinion on recent rules changes.  Some of them I don't like.  That doesn't mean I'm gonna stop watching.  When people stop having an opinion on what's happening in professional fishing,  that's when the sport's in real trouble.  

 

[Hawkeye21]

3 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Do people really hate the BPT?  I've made many negative post about their scoring system.  A lot of people have.  That doesn't mean I'm not a fan.  I'm a big college football fan and I have my opinion on recent rules changes.  Some of them I don't like.  That doesn't mean I'm gonna stop watching.  When people stop having an opinion on what's happening in professional fishing,  that's when the sport's in real trouble.  

 

Reading posts on forums and social media about it I think some really do.  Some don't like it because they don't want change and some don't like it because they have a strong dislike for Duckett.  Others don't like it because of the way they are promoting it and think they are being shown up their catch and release format.

 

I think it shows just how much some people really care about their way of fishing tourneys.

[jbsoonerfan]

18 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Do people really hate the BPT?  I've made many negative post about their scoring system.  A lot of people have.  That doesn't mean I'm not a fan.  I'm a big college football fan and I have my opinion on recent rules changes.  Some of them I don't like.  That doesn't mean I'm gonna stop watching.  When people stop having an opinion on what's happening in professional fishing,  that's when the sport's in real trouble.  

 

Ummm, from reading some of the posts here, I would say they do. 

[TnRiver46]

3 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Do people really hate the BPT?  I've made many negative post about their scoring system.  A lot of people have.  That doesn't mean I'm not a fan.  I'm a big college football fan and I have my opinion on recent rules changes.  Some of them I don't like.  That doesn't mean I'm gonna stop watching.  When people stop having an opinion on what's happening in professional fishing,  that's when the sport's in real trouble.  

 

I certainly don't enjoy watching BPT or MLF. Or the bachelor or Oprah. People telling me I'm wrong for having that opinion sure is strange but oh well, I still just don't watch. Hate is reserved for the Alabama crimson Tide and the Dallas cowboys (LSU and the Patriots also optional)

[scaleface]

22 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

I certainly don't enjoy watching BPT or MLF. Or the bachelor or Oprah. People telling I'm wrong for having that opinion sure is strange but oh well, I still just don't watch. Hate is reserved for the Alabama crimson Tide and the Dallas cowboys (LSU and the Patriots also optional)

Same here . I dont hate change , Duckett , MLF ... I just lie the 5 fish format . I dont watch the home run derby at the All star game either . 

[Tennessee Boy]

The biggest factor BY FAR that determines if I watch a tournament is the lake where the tournament is held.  I prefer the BASS format but I would be more interested in watching a BPT tournament on a lake I know well.  Nothing better than watching the pros fish water that I fish regularly. 

 

1 hour ago, TnRiver46 said:

I certainly don't enjoy watching BPT or MLF. Or the bachelor or Oprah. People telling me I'm wrong for having that opinion sure is strange but oh well, I still just don't watch. Hate is reserved for the Alabama crimson Tide and the Dallas cowboys (LSU and the Patriots also optional)

I don't watch Oprah either but I would watch her fish Kentucky Lake. ?

[OCdockskipper]

11 hours ago, J Francho said:

Poaching usually means something illegal. 

 

"any encroachment on another's property, rights, ideas, or the like."

When it comes to fishing & hunting, you are correct.  However, when it comes to business, it means "to attract away (someone, usually an employee or customer) from a competitor".  That was the definition I was using.  As opposed to developing a roster of anglers, Duckett chose to poach from an existing roster.  Perfectly legal.

 

While Duckett didn't do anything illegal in the way he approached Elite Series anglers, the way he did it was highly unethical.  He stayed fishing in the Elites while building BPT and used his contacts and relationships to lure a majority of the other Elite anglers to his tour.  Again, not illegal, but highly unethical.  Had he built BPT while he had no association at all with BASS, then that would have been fine ethically.  He could have stepped away from BASS during BPT's development, but he chose not to.

 

Also, before I get blamed for hating on the anglers that switched, I don't.  Employees and independent contractors (which pro anglers are) have no fiduciary duty to stay with a certain company, no matter how well they have been paid in the past or how long they have been associates.  The Employee/Employer relationship should be one of mutual interest and any time one side or the other wants to terminate it, thats fine.  Those anglers owed BASS nothing, anything done on their behalf prior to their leaving was done voluntarily by BASS. 

[OCdockskipper]

10 hours ago, Rpratt said:

...mainly from the responses here on the reasons why people are so against MLF...

 

1. Some  people just do not embrace change...

 

I'll respond as straight to the point as you did, you seem like the type of person that likes to get to the point and avoid soft selling stuff.

 

The problem with the assessment you made is it ignores the actual criticisms people have had towards BPT and substitutes instead a character flaw.  Change for the sake of change is no virtue, so when someone gives a valid & reasoned criticism of a change, it is a bit arrogant to dismiss it as "well, they don't like change".  It's not change they don't like, it is the specific thing that was changed or how it was done.

 

Give the other anglers on this forum a little credit for not being curmudgeons, we would all welcome you in our boats ? 

[Rpratt]

11 hours ago, OCdockskipper said:

 

I'll respond as straight to the point as you did, you seem like the type of person that likes to get to the point and avoid soft selling stuff.

 

The problem with the assessment you made is it ignores the actual criticisms people have had towards BPT and substitutes instead a character flaw.  Change for the sake of change is no virtue, so when someone gives a valid & reasoned criticism of a change, it is a bit arrogant to dismiss it as "well, they don't like change".  It's not change they don't like, it is the specific thing that was changed or how it was done.

 

Give the other anglers on this forum a little credit for not being curmudgeons, we would all welcome you in our boats ? 

No no, I hear you and totally agree with you ?

 

 

 

But I do stand by some don't like change, which basically what you are saying yourself. To say for example someone would rather see a five fish limit, or how they really harp on the catch and release or, well you get the gist. That's just change and honestly the whole deal was a massive change from what we have been used to. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion and I respect everyone's opinion on this board and even with my own circle of friends when we debate this. I am just commenting on what I see day in and day out in this debate on this forum. 

[J Francho]

11 hours ago, OCdockskipper said:

However, when it comes to business, it means "to attract away (someone, usually an employee or customer) from a competitor".

Isn't that why anyone pursues a new job?

11 hours ago, OCdockskipper said:

Change for the sake of change

Is it this?  Or is it for some improvement?  I'd argue someone wanted to make things better.

[RichF]

I really don't think the majority of the criticisms are fueled by a hatred of MLF/BPT or Boyd Duckett. The think the biggest problem was that there was a misconception about who their target audience was.  I thought it was meant for me. A basshead, obsessed with the sport, and really into tournament fishing.  That doesn't seem to be the case. And to be honest, it doesn't even seem like the more casual anglers are the prime either.  Anglers like us, watch fishing shows/events/coverage/etc. to learn (maybe to kill some time until fishing season opens)...but mostly to learn.  And as you progress in the sport and become a more skilled angler, you want to learn how to catch the larger than average bass (the majority of anglers do anyway, IMO).  The MLF/BPT format and broadcasts don't really provide that.  The original MLF events played out (play out) largely the same.  No practice on unfamiliar lakes = bank beating.  To me, there's nothing to learn there.  The "best" in the world aren't teaching me anything I don't already know.  The same thing is happening with the BPT broadcasts.  Product placement/endorsements, lame jokes, and hooksets on small bass is the general makeup of the show.  Again, nothing to learn. That's where a lot of the criticism is coming from, I think.  The people that are actually into the sport aren't getting what they used to get out of the biggest names in the game.  I think all the criticism has been good, though.  We're already seeing some things change with the tour that should make it more appealing.  I'm anxious to see how 2020 goes.  

 

22 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

When people stop having an opinion on what's happening in professional fishing,  that's when the sport's in real trouble.  

 

Excellent point right here btw.