Consistentcy and the 5 fish format

[J Francho]

2 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

If it was up to me,  I would use a points system that would reward bigger fish and have no limit.  I would square the weight of each fish so a 1lb fish would be worth 1 point, a 5lb fish would be worth 25 points.  That would allow the anglers to consider many different strategies to win. 

1   - 9lb fish = 81 points 

9   - 3lb fish = 81 points 

50 - ~1.27lb fish = 81 points 

 

That might be too “mathematical” for some but it’s not up to me anyway.

Not sure your math works there.  If a 1# is worth 1 point, and a fish five times as big is worth 25 times as much, then a 9# fish should be worth much, much more.  Exponents and mathy stuff aside, not a terrible idea, if yu can get the math right.

[Tennessee Boy]

6 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Not sure your math works there.  If a 1# is worth 1 point, and a fish five times as big is worth 25 times as much, then a 9# fish should be worth much, much more.  Exponents and mathy stuff aside, not a terrible idea, if yu can get the math right.

The weight in pounds squared.  1 squared is 1x1=1. 5 squared is 5x5=25.  9 squared is 9x9=81.   Just about every calculator has a button to do it but some people don’t like math.  I’m a geek so I like to mix math with my fishing.?

[J Francho]

That's way too big a gap between a 3# fish and a 5# fish.  I don't feel like it should take three 3# to overtake a single 5# fish.  You need a curve in there.  I like the idea, though.

[Tennessee Boy]

4 minutes ago, J Francho said:

That's way too big a gap between a 3# fish and a 5# fish.  I don't feel like it should take three 3# to overtake a single 5# fish.  You need a curve in there.  I like the idea, though.

Yeah,  I see what you’re saying and I agree to some degree.  Personally,  I would value a 9# fish over four 5# fish.  Would I value a 5# over three 3#?, probably not but I think the math needs to be simple enough that every calculator has a fish scoring key.  I don’t think it’s gonna happen regardless of what curve we come up with.

[J Francho]

That would depend on locale.  There are no 9# fish in my waters.  There are 5# fish.  They aren't easy, but one shows up almost every tournament as the lunker.  Sometimes it's a 6# or even an 7#.  I've even seen a 8-5.  Rare.  You could scale a curve based on the largest and smallest keeper caught.  All of this is just basic statistics. 

 

If you really want to measure the "largest" fish or catch, then we should be using displacement, lol.

[Tennessee Boy]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

If you really want to measure the "largest" fish or catch, then we should be using displacement, lol.

I like it ?.  Any idea what the world record is in cubic inches?

[Logan S]

The best way to emphasize larger fish in a tournament format is to limit the total number of fish you count toward your weight total.  What a novel idea .  It automatically scales to the fishery or conditions and isn't skewed by big fish factories like Lake Fork or small fish events like Sabine or Winyah.  If a 1lb fish is average, a 2lber is valuable (Sabine/Winyah)....If a 4lber is average a 6lber is valuable (Fork).  You need to target and catch the valuable fish to win.  It even works on a curve, for example in NY where a 9lber is extremely uncommon - If you did catch one it would help you exponentially.  Apply the same idea to any lake with any size fish.  When I catch a 6lber on the Potomac in a tournament it's WAY more valuable than three 2lbers or even two 3lbers.  There's no need to bring points or equations into it.  

 

In the MLF format, the valuable fish are the ones you can catch the most of...And most of the time those tend to be smaller fish.  It's not wrong, it's just different and a bit counter-intuitive to what most are used to.  IMO if MLF is going to keep their format they should just keep it and run with it.  This heavyweights tournament thing they are doing might hurt them more than it helps them in the long run as it's another reminder that MOST anglers, tournament or not, place a higher value on larger fish.

 

The 2 formats are like 2 different games with different strategies.  So it shouldn't be a shock that some guys are more suited to one or the other...With the best anglers being able to succeed in both.

[Tlauz]

Growing up I fished for walleye,pike and perch.  My dad was a catch it cook it angler.  I did not start bass fishing until I was an adult.  I spent a decade chasing muskies and now target bass almost exclusively. No matter the species, I have always viewed the best fisherman (regardless of species) as the ones that can find fish. I still think this! Most anglers with pretty good skills can catch fish once they find them.  The really good anglers can find fish on the days when it seems like they have all disappeared. I never payed close attention to tournament angling in the past until I started watching the MLF cup events.  I really enjoy these.  Because of this, I also started paying closer attention to BASS tournaments. On both tours, I think the top guys are the guys that find fish more consistently than others. 

[RichF]

3 hours ago, Logan S said:

IMO if MLF is going to keep their format they should just keep it and run with it. 

Totally agree here, especially after hearing from the MLF ownership that their target audience isn't the typical tournament bass angler.  

[Jim- Indiana]

15 hours ago, RichF said:

Totally agree here, especially after hearing from the MLF ownership that their target audience isn't the typical tournament bass angler.  

A larger view base, leads to more sponsors, and no one can argue that more sponsors are nothing but good for the sport.  My contention is that some of the format changes and rules make it harder for the anglers as a whole to be as consistent  as they were when fishing the 5 fish format.

   Granted.... some of those go against some that prefer a particular style of fishing, but at this level, it is on the anglers to be adaptable and proficient at all styles. The new "heavy hitters" angle seems to be more to appease the "dink" crowd.

    Stuff like mystery lakes, altering time periods, the leagues ability to stop or postpone events for weather and mechanical breakdowns, trailering to and from fishing areas, and especially the time crunch that is brought on by the "every fish counts" rule, all keep anglers from being able to employ certain strategies, thus making it harder to compete. I think the best change, that wouldn't affect either the "new viewer" or "diehard" crowd, would be to a "ceiling" number to the amount of fish, depending on the body of water and angler vote. This would give anglers more time to make decisions, tell us why, and watch how their decisions play out. I had gotten a thumbs up from lots of the diehards, that were in favor of removing the names from scoretracker, but MLF leaders seem to think the added "friction" between anglers, adds an attractable dimension for the "new viewer" crowd.

[BassNJake]

On 12/27/2019 at 7:48 PM, RichF said:

Totally agree here, especially after hearing from the MLF ownership that their target audience isn't the typical tournament bass angler.  

I watched FLW try this and fail.

Sure, for a couple of years there were a bunch of non endemic sponsors.

Then the markets got tight and they pulled all their money out of fishing.

FLW never recovered and eventually had to be bought out because of money issues.

 

Speaking of target audiences, who are they trying to attract with their SAT 7-9 am broadcasts on Discovery Channel?

I guess a bunch of people are looking for something new to watch early Saturday mornings.

[J Francho]

7 minutes ago, BassNJake said:

who are they trying to attract with their SAT 7-9 am broadcasts

Kids from the '70s used to watching cartoons at that time

[TnRiver46]

59 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Kids from the '70s used to watching cartoons at that time

I grew up watching Saturday cartoons but now I can drive so 7-9 on Saturday is fishing time 

[Tennessee Boy]

You guys have stumbled upon a brilliant idea.  A cartoon fishing show!  It would have cartoon anglers that catch 5 lbers on every cast.  The MLF fans would love the high numbers and the BASS fans would love the big fish.  Just for fun, it could have a coyote angler that would constantly drive his boat over a waterfall and hang there in midair for few seconds before falling.

[A-Jay]

1 hour ago, Tennessee Boy said:

You guys have stumbled upon a brilliant idea.  A cartoon fishing show!  It would have cartoon anglers that catch 5 lbers on every cast.  The MLF fans would love the high numbers and the BASS fans would love the big fish.  Just for fun, it could have a coyote angler that would constantly drive his boat over a waterfall and hang there in midair for few seconds before falling.

Fiction vs Reality

Pucker Factor - Very High

A-Jay

[RichF]

3 hours ago, BassNJake said:

I watched FLW try this and fail.

Sure, for a couple of years there were a bunch of non endemic sponsors.

Then the markets got tight and they pulled all their money out of fishing.

FLW never recovered and eventually had to be bought out because of money issues.

 

Speaking of target audiences, who are they trying to attract with their SAT 7-9 am broadcasts on Discovery Channel?

I guess a bunch of people are looking for something new to watch early Saturday mornings.

I have zero confidence that BPT/MLF will attract the kind of attention they're hoping for.  It may be the highest viewed bass fishing show right now but that could be due to the fact that the Discovery channel comes standard with most normal cable packages, whereas, all the other fishing shows air on the Outdoor channel, which doesn't. As negative as I come across, with regards to MLF, I really do applaud their efforts though.  I think it would be pretty dang cool to have bass fishing become a mainstream sport where a guy like me could make a pro athlete's salary for doing something I love to do. Unfortunately, I don't see it ever happening.

 

And yeah, 7-9am Saturdays...that's tough.  The fishermen are out fishing, the college age kids are sleeping/hungover from Friday night, and parents are watching whatever crap their kiddos have on the tube (unless you're like me and make your 4 month old watch with you to prepare her for the future, haha). So that leaves...bored retirees?

[Hawkeye21]

2 hours ago, RichF said:

I have zero confidence that BPT/MLF will attract the kind of attention they're hoping for.  It may be the highest viewed bass fishing show right now but that could be due to the fact that the Discovery channel comes standard with most normal cable packages, whereas, all the other fishing shows air on the Outdoor channel, which doesn't. As negative as I come across, with regards to MLF, I really do applaud their efforts though.  I think it would be pretty dang cool to have bass fishing become a mainstream sport where a guy like me could make a pro athlete's salary for doing something I love to do. Unfortunately, I don't see it ever happening.

 

And yeah, 7-9am Saturdays...that's tough.  The fishermen are out fishing, the college age kids are sleeping/hungover from Friday night, and parents are watching whatever crap their kiddos have on the tube (unless you're like me and make your 4 month old watch with you to prepare her for the future, haha). So that leaves...bored retirees?

If anyone is interested in the show they will DVR it.  I've been recording the MLF events for years already.