Live Target Mouse-Lots of strikes, poor hook up ratio.

[primetime]

I have used both sizes, and have been throwing them sporadically last 3-4 years. I tied one on yesterday for a small lake from the bank and I missed probably 7/10 good strikes (Fish had it, was moving with it and felt the weight). Earlier this morning, had same issue, and it seems the hooks often end up buried in the back of the mouse, or it comes back all balled up which is frustrating. I love the walking action of these things. I remember having the same problems in the past when using them. I have bent the hooks up, out, and still not getting results.

 

Anyone have same issue? I was thinking swapping out to bigger hooks, or is there another mouse that is a better alternative? I don't want to give up on this bait since it seems to really get crushed when I throw it. The fish I have landed seem to be better quality as well, but something just isn't right. The Live Target Frog is fantastic for hook up ratio, so just not sure what is going on.

 

Normally I am happy with my hook up rate on frogs. I understand you are going to miss a few, but I am thinking it is maybe just a poor design? 

 

Any feedback or experiences throwing this bait appreciated. Or another mouse to try that is better. Thanks.

 

 

[ike8120]

Maybe you want to try a stinger hook 

https://www.gameandfishmag.com/editorial/frog-hack-add-a-stinger-hook/334798

[primetime]

1 hour ago, ike8120 said:

Maybe you want to try a stinger hook 

https://www.gameandfishmag.com/editorial/frog-hack-add-a-stinger-hook/334798

Good Idea. I have the hooks bent out so wide they are barely weedless anyhow...Maybe I can switch one of the trailer hooks from the little scum frogs and it will fit....Thanks. Never thought of that.

[jbsoonerfan]

26 minutes ago, primetime said:

Good Idea. I have the hooks bent out so wide they are barely weedless anyhow...Maybe I can switch one of the trailer hooks from the little scum frogs and it will fit....Thanks. Never thought of that.

You bent the hooks....out? On purpose?

[primetime]

7 hours ago, jbsoonerfan said:

You bent the hooks....out? On purpose?

Yes. I found that the way the hooks are set up, they seem to bury into the back of the bait on most hook sets, so I bent them slightly up, and also widened them to the side to give them more clearance...I do this on many frogs as well. Some are good to go out of the box, but with alot of frogs I find bending the hooks slightly out and up helps with hook ups. If you bend them too much,  it will make them more prone to snags, so its a fine line. I kind of thought most people did this with hollow body frogs.....

[ike8120]

12 hours ago, primetime said:

Good Idea. I have the hooks bent out so wide they are barely weedless anyhow...Maybe I can switch one of the trailer hooks from the little scum frogs and it will fit....Thanks. Never thought of that.

I your local store doesn't carry them. Amazon has them.

[BoatSquirrel]

Yes, the pros known best for frog fishing, Ish Monroe and Dean Rojas both say to bend the hooks out on new frogs.  My amatuer opinion is very much yes also.  

Ive experienced poor hookup rates with LiveTarget's floating baits also.  Not sure why but lots of reviews saying the same.  Plenty of very good frogs out there to chose from.

If LiveTarget is your favorite bait company of all time and you now feel hurt, please do not take this as a personal attack on your entire family, just my opinion.

[primetime]

I am not a fan of live target, always felt their baits and lures were overpriced and gimmicky. However, The Live Target Frog was the first frog I really had confidence in after the older lighter original scum frogs. I still use the LT Frog as it is one of the best IMO for hook up ratio, especially the bigger 65 size as it is so soft with good hooks...I love buying and fishing frogs and have purchased just about all of them. I would say the Booyah Frogs are the best frog out there pound for pound since they only cost $6 and are a really good soft body frog, and I really like the Snagproof Frogs as well. The Poppin Version frog is my favorite popping frog for vegetation, like the skirts, and after that I pretty much throw the Older Bully Wa frogs, Spro frogs, and I also like the green pumpkin colored KVD Frog, and the Jackall Frogs, especially the Iobee which has always been good to me.

 

I started throwing the Spro Poppin Shad last year after not liking the bronzeye shad since they all took on water way too quickly, but the Poppin shad has one of the best actions and hook up ratio's as the frog seems to release from the hooks everytime you bring in a fish. Its a well spent $10 bill.

 

The Live Target Mouse flat out gets blown up when a topwater bite is on, I honestly feel at times the walking rolling action causes it to draw more strikes, and when it sits still after coming off the shore or weeds, it seems to also draw extra strikes. It looks awesome in the water, and when pond fishing it gives them a different look, so hopefully a different brand will do better.

 

I am looking at buying a few other models from Tackle Warehouse. I saw a few that looked good. That Molix frog kind of looks like the same profile.

 

Thanks for your opinion.

[jbsoonerfan]

8 hours ago, primetime said:

Yes. I found that the way the hooks are set up, they seem to bury into the back of the bait on most hook sets, so I bent them slightly up, and also widened them to the side to give them more clearance...I do this on many frogs as well. Some are good to go out of the box, but with alot of frogs I find bending the hooks slightly out and up helps with hook ups. If you bend them too much,  it will make them more prone to snags, so its a fine line. I kind of thought most people did this with hollow body frogs.....

Doesn't that phrase right there go against the title of the thread? Maybe try fishing them they way they were designed and see if that helps. Maybe that will solve the problem. I don't know but I would think making the hook wider would be worse for hook sets. I know if I bend a worm hook out I immediately change to a new one.

[FishingGeekTX]

Looking at the picture it looks like the hook eye is above the hook points.  It seems as though that's the #1 issue with just looking at it.  Long shank too.

Tail may also generate some misses. (I've had fish grab frog "legs" and take them under)

Also check how collapsible the body is, and the clearance the hook has when fully collapsed.

 

Personally I'd retire it, low hookup lures are a no-go, I don't like losing fish due to lures.

I fished topwater hollow body heavily this year, when through dozens and a hundred or so bass, (10-15 per trip), and I found the pad crasher regular to be the best all around...good hookup, good price, good durability, and nice size/action.  Spro was a quality frog...pricey and sturdy, but I found it was stiff on collapse, and I think that was one that had less body clearance to the the hook (gap between body and hook).  And the pop and jr were terrible for hookup (tiny clearance on jr and pop I believe).

 

I find they seem to hit "size" with hollow body.  If they aren't hitting a lure solid, try smaller (pad crasher jr works fairly well).  May have to use a lighter rod for it.  But besides that, frogging is hard enough with cover, when they run to weeds/cover and lose you, they don't always fully grab it, and you always have some loss...adding to that a poor design and forget about it.  I had a good 90% hookup in the best times, with a booyah, but some days the fish were just not a aggressive and that could drop to 50%.  With a poor hollow body on top of poor conditions, it could drop even lower...like 20%.

Good luck!

 

[WRB]

Lake Fork Frog Stinger hook.

Tom

[tcbass]

I'll say this, missed a lot of fish on regular hollow body frogs, Teckel Teckel Sprinker Frogs, and Booyah Toadrunners but when I took regular Booyah Padcrasher frogs and modified them into Whopper Frogs the hookup ratio went to like over 95% and I have never turned out the hooks. 

 

I think the fact that the frog is on the move helps a lot in catching them. 

[ww2farmer]

The live target mouse caught you....which is what they are designed to do. 

[primetime]

On 10/26/2019 at 11:56 AM, jbsoonerfan said:

Doesn't that phrase right there go against the title of the thread? Maybe try fishing them they way they were designed and see if that helps. Maybe that will solve the problem. I don't know but I would think making the hook wider would be worse for hook sets. I know if I bend a worm hook out I immediately change to a new one.

I hear what you are saying. However, the way the hooks come out of the package, they are so tight to the body, almost inward, and when they take it, the body moves forward on the hooks, which causes the stock set up to bury the points right in the plastic almost in same spot.....I figured I would lift them up and make them wider to sacrifice complete weedless, figuring it would help. It has to be the design, I think there is a reason I never hear anyone using these...Especially when the Live Target frogs are perfect right out of the package. I never bend hooks on pad crushers or Live targets, Bobby's perfect frog etc...

 

I will say, I seem to get more strikes on the mouse the way it rolls and walks even in open water then on most walking baits and I don't have to worry about losing them when hitting shorelines. I notice with good frogs the bodies often end up rotating off the hook shank, this one bunches up...I think the angle of line tie is off, cause they take it and if they have it for a good 5 seconds, I feel I should at least be hitting 50% on any frog...

 

I am going to try one with less appendages but with the same profile. I think it gives fish a different look. When it sits still after walking it, it seems to get smashed after just floating for 10 seconds...I guess there is a reason why many of the spook shaped hollow bodies never seem to make it, same with the plastic bodies that Yum tried to make etc...Must just be the design.

 

When I say bend, I am not bending them to the point that they will flex ona fish. Opening the gap just to give it more space. When Hollow bodies first came out, most of the frogs had hooks that needed opening. Today's versions are perfected for most part....I guess the mouse is an older design.

 

Thanks. I get what you are saying.