Kayak vs Canoe

[Further North]

2 hours ago, J Francho said:

Tell me the benefits of a drift boat on a lake.  I've only been in one once, on the Salmon River.  Doesn't seem like an ideal vessel for tooling around a lake.

Good question, thanks.  I'm in the middle of deciding if I want to buy one, and that helped me sit down and really think about it.

 

Not in order of importance:

• Orders of magnitude more stable.
  • I throw flies at muskies and that is much, much easier standing.  I'm getting older and I don't like the rocking motion that creates even on my SportsPal.
  • Landing a 4 ft. fish is easier for me in a stable platform.  I can stand up to get the net under the fish.
• Higher sides, more likely to stay dry inside.
• More built in storage (including horizontal rod storage, and plenty of room for a musky-sized net).
• Handle motors easily if desired.
• They come with a trailer, I don't have to deal with getting them on and off the vehicle. I just hook up and drive away. (This will not be a benefit to everyone)
• I prefer oars to paddles.  I find them much easier to maneuver with, and they provide more "power".  Not sure I'm using the right word there?
• Very easy for one person to row while the other (or two others with a bigger craft) fish.
• Anchor system is built into the boat and is easily deployable.
• You can transport your gear in the boat, which means less pre-launch activity when you get to the water.
• I can get up and move around.  This is important to me, may not be to others.

Downsides, again, not in order of importance:

• Cost.  Even a smaller, used drift boat is going to cost several thousand dollars.  That's a no-go for a lot of folks.  It would not be hard to outfit a used flat bottom boat for less.
• Most are fiberglass...I'm not wild about that on rocky rivers.
• They require a trailer (the opposite of of the point above).  This is a no-go for a lot of people.
• Weight.  Much heavier than a canoe, or a kayak.  When you have to drag it through water too shallow to row through, it's going to be tougher than either.

What it comes down to for me is that drift boats are designed from the start as a fishing platform.  Fishing is my primary reason to be on the water, so that drives my decisions.  I'd rather compromise other things in favor of fishing than compromise fishing.

 

That said, they are better on rivers, but so are canoes and kayaks.  I'd not take any of them out on bigger water, but I have a boat for that, others may not.

 

There's other similar options, one of the river musky guides up here runs a Towee, and there's the big inflatables like Bill Sherer offers, but they have their own shortcomings.

 

I hope that helps.

[J Francho]

Who is going to row?  The time is was in one, it was all the good things you talked about, but the guide was on the oars the whole time.  Most of the ones I see up here are aluminum.  If you're fishing a river, then I could see it, if you had someone to row while you fish.  On a lake, in anything other than completely still air, I'd think you'd get blown all over the place.  I'm still hung up on the rowing thing, too.  I've fished the NYC reservoirs, and it's rowboats only.  Getting to spots, and getting into and holding position is hard work.  Usually the way we did it is one rows for a bit, and keeps position for the other person.  Switch off after some fish.  Anchoring is rarely a great plan when bass fishing, unless you on a school.  It may very well be the right choice for you, but I don't think it's some silver bullet no one thought of before.

[Further North]

2 hours ago, J Francho said:

Who is going to row?  The time is was in one, it was all the good things you talked about, but the guide was on the oars the whole time.  Most of the ones I see up here are aluminum.  If you're fishing a river, then I could see it, if you had someone to row while you fish.  On a lake, in anything other than completely still air, I'd think you'd get blown all over the place.  I'm still hung up on the rowing thing, too.  I've fished the NYC reservoirs, and it's rowboats only.  Getting to spots, and getting into and holding position is hard work.  Usually the way we did it is one rows for a bit, and keeps position for the other person.  Switch off after some fish.  Anchoring is rarely a great plan when bass fishing, unless you on a school.  It may very well be the right choice for you, but I don't think it's some silver bullet no one thought of before.

If there's two people, one rows, one fishes.  Take turns, as you said.  Getting into and holding position is, IMO, easier with oars than paddles, but that's me.  I'm a newbie at it, and I can spin a drift boat on a dime, faster than a canoe or a kayak.

 

If you're by yourself, row, fish, row, fish...they get blown around a lot less than a light canoe, particularly with one person on board.  Run a trolling motor if you can.  The beauty of that is you set the TM up to pull, not push.

 

Drift boats are certainly not a "some silver bullet no one thought of before", but that's not what I said.  Nor are they for everyone, but they fish extremely well, and that's what I'm out there to do.

 

Here's a quick video on the two man Stealthcraft Stalker.

 

 

[J Francho]

That is tiny compared to what I was thinking. Looks pretty much like a sit  inside bass raider, but nicer. 

This is what I had in mind when you said drift boat:

https://www.pavatimarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Pavati-17x61-Model-1.jpg

[Further North]

49 minutes ago, J Francho said:

That is tiny compared to what I was thinking. Looks pretty much like a sit  inside bass raider, but nicer. 

This is what I had in mind when you said drift boat:

https://www.pavatimarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Pavati-17x61-Model-1.jpg

That looks like a four man power drifter.

 

The three-man rigs are the most common  (Guide and two fishermen) but that little fella is perfect for what I want around here.  I can get way, way op skinny musky/smallie water, and back out again.

 

I'd love aluminum, but they are rare (oddly enough, there's one for sale here, but it's from 1973 and would have to have the interior re-done for fly chucking.

 

Main brands I can think of are Hyde and Stealthcraft, super popular our west for trout.  Most of the musky fly guys around here have the three man rigs.

 

https://stealthcraftboats.com/stealthcraft/stalker/

[Angry John]

I have no idea what your size or transportation limits are but the original grumman's aluminum canoes are very nice to fish 2.  They paddle well and if you add an outrigger very stable.  How much modifications along with setup and teardown time is up to you.  The more you do yourself the cheaper you can pull off a killer rig.

[CountryboyinDC]

@Further North, that's the tiniest drift boat I've ever seen too.  For really skinny water, you may want to consider an inflatable (cataraft).  Most drift boats have a much deeper draft.  That one being so small, it may not, but the inflatable would probably still go in shallower water without worrying about damage.

For the OP, I think a drift boat would be an order of magnitude more logistically challenging and an order of magnitude more expensive too.  The plastic boats (kayaks and canoes, which are often polyethylene or ABS) are about the simplest way to leave the bank.

[schplurg]

10 hours ago, Further North said:

Fishing is my primary reason to be on the water, so that drives my decisions.  I'd rather compromise other things in favor of fishing than compromise fishing.

 

 

 

 

Me too which is why I'm selling my kayak (maybe I'll end up keeping it) for a small boat. I don't really go into skinny water and I found that being stuck in a seat all day was aggravating for me. I can get a used 14 foot (maybe 16) aluminum and build a nice casting deck and throw in a trolling motor for about the same price as my used yak, and a lot cheaper than a new one.

 

Obviously many people love these things and I thought I would too, so just giving a different opinion here.

 

My kayak is no easier to get on the water than an aluminum boat, in fact for me it's more difficult. I'm almost 52 and I'm risking straining my back just dragging it out of the water onto the ramp, or out of my truck. Just getting it into my truck at home I have to be careful.

 

The kayak is fun but I find myself fighting the yak too much on the water, and off as well. Too hard to turn and cast another direction, having to grab a paddle every time I want to turn just a little (get a mini-paddle for this! One handed!)

 

Plus most of the good fishing is far from where I can launch a yak. I considered a motor but that's when I also started thinking about a boat. Why bother at that point? Gotta register it then just like a boat!

 

I'd rather stand up and operate a trolling motor and ditch the paddles. I also have tendinitis so that has something (maybe a LOT) to do with my decision - more paddling = less fishing for me. Same with lifting the yak. 

 

Final "plus" for a boat is that I can bring someone along comfortably. I can lay on the deck if I get tired, I can pack more food and gear if I want, bring the dog.

 

My friend tandem fishes with his GF in a yak and he likes it fine. It isn't even a good one. There is something very cool about yakking but, like you, I'm there to fish and it isn't the best answer...for ME anyways.

 

Anyways just food for thought.

[Further North]

3 hours ago, CountryboyinDC said:

@Further North, that's the tiniest drift boat I've ever seen too.  For really skinny water, you may want to consider an inflatable (cataraft).  Most drift boats have a much deeper draft.  That one being so small, it may not, but the inflatable would probably still go in shallower water without worrying about damage.

For the OP, I think a drift boat would be an order of magnitude more logistically challenging and an order of magnitude more expensive too.  The plastic boats (kayaks and canoes, which are often polyethylene or ABS) are about the simplest way to leave the bank.

Thanks.

 

I've had a small pontoon...didn't care for it at all. 

 

I've had a couple of plastic canoes, one plastic kayak,and currently have a Meyer's Sportspal aluminum canoe.

 

The Sportspal is the best of the bunch for me, by a wide margin.

 

Still not as stable as the drift boat.

 

5 minutes ago, schplurg said:

 

 

Me too which is why I'm selling my kayak (maybe I'll end up keeping it) for a small boat. I don't really go into skinny water and I found that being stuck in a seat all day was aggravating for me. I can get a used 14 foot (maybe 16) aluminum and build a nice casting deck and throw in a trolling motor for about the same price as my used yak, and a lot cheaper than a new one.

 

Obviously many people love these things and I thought I would too, so just giving a different opinion here.

 

My kayak is no easier to get on the water than an aluminum boat, in fact for me it's more difficult. I'm almost 52 and I'm risking straining my back just dragging it out of the water onto the ramp, or out of my truck. Just getting it into my truck at home I have to be careful.

 

The kayak is fun but I find myself fighting the yak too much on the water, and off as well. Too hard to turn and cast another direction, having to grab a paddle every time I want to turn just a little (get a mini-paddle for this! One handed!)

 

Plus most of the good fishing is far from where I can launch a yak. I considered a motor but that's when I also started thinking about a boat. Why bother at that point? Gotta register it then just like a boat!

 

I'd rather stand up and operate a trolling motor and ditch the paddles. I also have tendinitis so that has something (maybe a LOT) to do with my decision - more paddling = less fishing for me. Same with lifting the yak. 

 

Final "plus" for a boat is that I can bring someone along comfortably. I can lay on the deck if I get tired, I can pack more food and gear if I want, bring the dog.

 

My friend tandem fishes with his GF in a yak and he likes it fine. It isn't even a good one. There is something very cool about yakking but, like you, I'm there to fish and it isn't the best answer...for ME anyways.

 

Anyways just food for thought.

Very, very close to how I look at things.

 

I've already got the boat, am looking for the best way (for me) to fish skinny water.  All of the things you said about kayaks and canoes resonate very well with me.

 

I've got 5 years on top of your 52, and while I don't have any health issues (yet), I'm not getting any younger.  I want easy, stable, and something I can just drop in the water and go.

[TnRiver46]

me and my girlfriend had a fun fall colors paddle on sunday in the canoe 

[CountryboyinDC]

@Malik Adeel, some things are impossible to get from a forum, even one like this where most of the members are genuinely interested in sharing their knowledge.  For the canoe versus SOT kayak versus SINK kayak, there are advantages to each that you'll need to weigh, and it still may be a matter of trial and error to get to the point you're happy.  I own a canoe, a paddle kayak, and a pedal kayak.  I think for most people a SOT kayak is the way to go solo fiahing, whether or not you may face a deep water re-entry that the OP was concerned about.  For two anglers, there are probably more knowledgable responses here than I could offer.  When I'm out with the family, we're in the canoe (usually not my most productive fishing time).  As for specific models of solo SOT kayaks or a canoe, tell me what your priorities are and your budget, and I'll try to give you a helpful opinion.

[Swamp Yankee]

With regards to self-powered boats; moreso than in canoes or kayaks ( and I own both) I really enjoy fishing still water and slower moving rivers from a rowing boat. But the best boats for rowing are the ones that are designed for rowing only... not aluminum boats designed for outboard motors that happen to have oarlocks.. not much fun to row one of them at all...not when compared to a true rowing boat.

 

A drift boat is really designed for drifting backwards ( rower facing forward) downstream on relatively faster moving streams. The hull is designed with lots of rocker to steer quickly. The oars are meant more for steering than propulsion. Because of their hull design, however, they are tough to row for a long time on a straight course in still water because they’re not designed for that. 

 

A rowing boat is also a great way to take your wife out onto the water. She sits in the stern facing you, and you row her butt around. Fishing is nice because you can both see what the other is doing. One fishes the port side, the other the starboard. 

 

Many of them can be easily “backed in” to good fishing spots so the rower can see precisely where the boat is going. And when you’re just trying to cover distances no canoe is more efficient than a good rowing boat. They’re just a great way to get around on the water.

 

Problem is... they’re hard to find and often expensive when you do find one. Many of the better ones are hand made by professional and amateur builders. It’s too bad, too. I own and have owned sailing boats, canoes, kayaks, motor boats, and pure rowing boats... and for sheer fun on the water, a good rowing boat is second only to a good sailing dinghy, and it’s much better suited for fishing. But nobody seems to want anything to do with them. 

 

My hunch is that many people that have any experience rowing have tried to row an aluminum boat designed for an outboard... and again, they’re no fun at all, IMO. But when I’m out on the water it seems many other boaters seem to think rowing must be sheer drudgery.... if they only knew how much fun it was in one of my rowing boats, they’d think otherwise.

[A-Jay]

On 10/11/2019 at 9:21 PM, Jonas Staggs said:

Would you recommend a kayak vs a canoe, Im trying to keep safety in mind as my wife will be riding along with me. I do plan to eventually get a trolling motor attached to whatever I have kayak/canoe as well. I was originally looking at kayaks but stumbled on a great deal for a canoe and it got me wondering in regards to 2 fishing from a boat and safety as a priority, would you go tandem kayak or canoe? Thanks for your input. 

I've fished out of an Old Town squareback canoe for many years (still do).

I run it both with a trolling motor & without - paddle power.

I fish both solo & with my wife - those trips are the best !

Transportation is done with a small trailer.

Rig is very stable, at just under 16 ft long it has a 40 inch beam - I often stand & fish without any problems. 

Might be something to consider.

The video below is my most recent trip out in the Old Town and it's part of a playlist of over 70 video's fishing from it.

A-Jay

[MN Fisher]

12 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

I've fished out of an Old Town squareback canoe for many years (still do).

I run it both with a trolling motor & without - paddle power.

I fish both solo & with my wife - those trips are the best !

Transportation is done with a small trailer.

Rig is very stable, at just under 16 ft long it has a 40 inch beam - I often stand & fish without any problems. 

Might be something to consider.

 

A-Jay

My canoe isn't quite as large as @A-Jay's, being only a 14' square-stern with a 34" beam.

But with outrigger stabilizers, I too can stand to cast when I want to, and the 30# TM moves it quite easily. Use the paddle for short changes in position and it moves like a breeze.

Also have a trailer for it which does limit where I can launch, but at my age, makes it much easier.

 

[A-Jay]

1 minute ago, MN Fisher said:

My canoe isn't quite as large as @A-Jay's, being only a 14' square-stern with a 34" beam.

But with outrigger stabilizers, I too can stand to cast when I want to, and the 30# TM moves it quite easily. Use the paddle for short changes in position and it moves like a breeze.

Also have a trailer for it which does limit where I can launch, but at my age, makes it much easier.

 

Sweet Rig Sir !

A-Jay

[MN Fisher]

Just now, A-Jay said:

Sweet Rig Sir !

A-Jay

I'm going to be doing some more mods to it besides what I posted last spring. Maybe do a vid on it when it's all done next spring.

[WRB]

There was a local kayak tournament a few weeks ago and the predominate kayak was Wilderness Systems with a few tandem 135T boats with 2 anglers. Watching them fish was inreresting, boat looked very stable but never witnessed anyone in the event standing up in their kayaks.

This a club event and they told me they fish every weekend between Santa Barbara and San Diego mostly coastal ocean areas. The big events are held in San Diego around La Jolla with over 100 kayaks.

Tom

[Swamp Yankee]

9 minutes ago, WRB said:

There was a local kayak tournament a few weeks ago and the predominate kayak was Wilderness Systems with a few tandem 135T boats with 2 anglers. Watching them fish was inreresting, boat looked very stable but never witnessed anyone in the event standing up in their kayaks.

This a club event and they told me they fish every weekend between Santa Barbara and San Diego mostly coastal ocean areas. The big events are held in San Diego around La Jolla with over 100 kayaks.

Tom

In my experience, the kayaks that are stable enough that you can stand in them tend to be real dogs when it comes to paddling them.

[Goose52]

Well, as long as all the canoe people are checking in - I might as well too. My boat is a solo boat (11'6") but the rigging principles would be the same if I had a 14' or 16' boat.  The point is that canoes are often dismissed out-of-hand as not being suitable fishing craft.  It's true that in the shorter lengths, a kayak is probably a better fishing craft than a stripped, no rigging, canoe propelled by paddle only.  However, if the intended use if the canoe is not as a pure paddle craft, or if, as the OP was inquiring about, there is the potential for two or more people in the boat, canoes then bring advantages to the playing field.

 

As I have posted in this forum many times, for my specific purposes, in my specific water, I have yet to find a small watercraft that is better for my purposes than the below boat.  Stand up 100% of the time to fish, down/side imaging sonar, plenty of room, modular and can be rigged many ways, 34 pound hull weight, 8 to 15 minute rigging time, easy to car top, easy to store.

 

YMMV...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MN Fisher]

44 minutes ago, Goose52 said:

Well, as long as all the canoe people are checking in - I might as well too. My boat is a solo boat (11'6") but the rigging principles would be the same if I had a 14' or 16' boat.  The point is that canoes are often dismissed out-of-hand as not being suitable fishing craft.  It's true that in the shorter lengths, a kayak is probably a better fishing craft than a stripped, no rigging, canoe propelled by paddle only.  However, if the intended use if the canoe is not as a pure paddle craft, or if, as the OP was inquiring about, there is the potential for two or more people in the boat, canoes then bring advantages to the playing field.

You and @Fishing Rhinoare two of my inspirations.

[J Francho]

On 11/16/2019 at 1:28 PM, Swamp Yankee said:

In my experience, the kayaks that are stable enough that you can stand in them tend to be real dogs when it comes to paddling them.

I though this too, until I got into some better boats.  My OG Ocean Kayak PBG was like paddling a sheet of plywood.  My Wilderness Systems Commander 140 is a fast boat, and I could stand on the gunwales and fish in still water.  My current Hobie Compass, while pedal driven, can be paddled and is no dog when running paddles.  I have a Jackson Coosa, and while standable, not as stable, has lesser tracking ability, and is pretty slow.  It's really meant for bouncing down shallow rivers, in tight quarters, and excels in that area.

[Swamp Yankee]

8 minutes ago, J Francho said:

I though this too, until I got into some better boats.  My OG Ocean Kayak PBG was like paddling a sheet of plywood.  My Wilderness Systems Commander 140 is a fast boat, and I could stand on the gunwales and fish in still water.  My current Hobie Compass, while pedal driven, can be paddled and is no dog when running paddles.  I have a Jackson Coosa, and while standable, not as stable, has lesser tracking ability, and is pretty slow.  It's really meant for bouncing down shallow rivers, in tight quarters, and excels in that area.

That Compass looks like a nice boat! I see they came up with a kick-up fin design. I always wondered what pedal yakkers do when they get into skinny water. That always seemed to me to be the weakest part of the system. 

[J Francho]

20 minutes ago, Swamp Yankee said:

I always wondered what pedal yakkers do when they get into skinny water.

You can flutter the the fins with half strokes into about 6" of water.  This works over pads and all but the gnarliest of slop.  There's always the paddle as well.

 

Here is the Compass, with the Mirage Drive deployed, and beached.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Family/Fishing-Journal/i-nw7vt3s/0/80963f73/X2/IMG_1037-X2.jpg

[Hook2Jaw]

33 minutes ago, Swamp Yankee said:

That Compass looks like a nice boat! I see they came up with a kick-up fin design. I always wondered what pedal yakkers do when they get into skinny water. That always seemed to me to be the weakest part of the system. 

We flutter fin or stow the drive altogether and bust out the paddle.  Then we go way skinnier than a boat could ever dream of.  ?

[Swamp Yankee]

13 minutes ago, Hook2Jaw said:

We flutter fin or stow the drive altogether and bust out the paddle.  Then we go way skinnier than a boat could ever dream of.  ?

I doubt you can go any skinnier than my favorite bass boat.

 

 

29 minutes ago, J Francho said:

You can flutter the the fins with half strokes into about 6" of water.  This works over pads and all but the gnarliest of slop.  There's always the paddle as well.

 

Here is the Compass, with the Mirage Drive deployed, and beached.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Family/Fishing-Journal/i-nw7vt3s/0/80963f73/X2/IMG_1037-X2.jpg

I should be more clear in my wording. Honestly, I was imagining what might happen if you pedaled over something unseen.

 

I knew there were ways to run in water too shallow for pedaling, given you knew you were heading into such conditions, but I worried what might happen to the rig if you hit some unseen obstruction under water. If you were going fast, I imagine you could mess those fins up pretty badly.

 

Hobie’s design change for kick up fins seems to address that.