Weed killer ruins ponds

[JackJr]

 I'm here to ask about fellow fishermans opinions on putting weed killer in ponds/lakes. They say these chemicals do not kill the fish but I completely disagree with that. Ever since they started putting those blue chemicals in my local ponds the fishing got worse and worse over the years. 5 years ago the fishing was amazing in my area you can go out there and catch 5 bass in 10 minutes easily. Now I'm lucky if I can catch 1 dink in an hour! They recently put the chemicals in a pond I live near and the water is pure blue and all of the weeds are completely gone. I threw around for about 30 minutes and not only did I not get one bite, I also didn't see a single sign of life. No bait fish nothing. This was also a pond I used to be able to go to and catch hundreds of bass. I assume y'all agree with me but I've never heard anyone talk about this topic and want to know y'alls opinions. 

[Hammer 4]

They do this every year at All of the park ponds/lakes around here. However, all have a good aeration system in place, and some have drainage, both of which seem to help. Due to the size of these ponds and lakes, if they didn't kill off the vegetation, there would be little open water. Keep in mind that these ponds have a visual attraction as well as a fishing attraction for the public..Now, I've fished these ponds for many years, and while at times the fishing is very hard, mostly due to Pressure, it's never really went down hill like you describe. I would guess that pond needs some bio management badly. 

[Team9nine]

19 minutes ago, Hammer 4 said:

They do this every year at All of the park ponds/lakes around here. However, all have a good aeration system in place, and some have drainage, both of which seem to help. Due to the size of these ponds and lakes, if they didn't kill off the vegetation, there would be little open water. Keep in mind that these ponds have a visual attraction as well as a fishing attraction for the public..Now, I've fished these ponds for many years, and while at times the fishing is very hard, mostly due to Pressure, it's never really went down hill like you describe. I would guess that pond needs some bio management badly. 

Ditto the above ^^

 

I fish a couple ponds that pretty much stay "blue" the entire year because they treat them so heavily, but the numbers of bass hasn't changed from what I can tell. Just need to figure out what the bass have done to adapt, and you'll probably be back on them again. Just fished one such pond this afternon and managed about 2 dozen in a couple hours and I only got to fish half the pond because of a couple other anglers at this one today.

[JackJr]

3 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

Ditto the above ^^

 

I fish a couple ponds that pretty much stay "blue" the entire year because they treat them so heavily, but the numbers of bass hasn't changed from what I can tell. Just need to figure out what the bass have done to adapt, and you'll probably be back on them again. Just fished one such pond this afternon and managed about 2 dozen in a couple hours and I only got to fish half the pond because of a couple other anglers at this one today.

The bass fishing in the ponds that I have been fishing has been absolutely terrible ever since. There is no other angler pressure around here because everyone here does the saltwater thing. I've tried every tactic in the book to try to catch the bass but get little to no results. I have to blame it on the chemicals because the fishing was so great before they did it.

[Team9nine]

35 minutes ago, JackJr said:

The bass fishing in the ponds that I have been fishing has been absolutely terrible ever since. There is no other angler pressure around here because everyone here does the saltwater thing. I've tried every tactic in the book to try to catch the bass but get little to no results. I have to blame it on the chemicals because the fishing was so great before they did it.

Always a possibility; just saying it doesn't match with my experience on the ponds around here, so it's not a given. Hope you figure it out, or the fish come back after a few years.

 

[5/0]

I have a friend who tried to manage lily pads and cattails on his 5 acre pond. It basically has a mud bottom and the cattails will extend 10-20 feet from shore all around the pond. Then the pads another 10-20 feet outside the cattails. It is really a pain in the ass to fish.

He tried the blue stuff with no luck. He finally used his dozer and chains to rip out some of the cattails. A lot of work to say the least and they grew back in a heartbeat! It was fine for a while, but not for too long. The bass population remained good. All are healthy, but are predominately in the 1-2 pound range.

Which leads to other questions. They may be off topic here, but I’ll put them forward anyway.

Like I said, the pond has a mud bottom. Which begs the question of where do they spawn?

The predominant forage in the pond is crappie. There are tons of them. I’ve never seen a blue gill and he’s tried to plant them with no success.

I’m sure there are crawdads in the pond, but again I’ve never seen one. He’s planted those also.

Are the crappie messing with the pond ecosystem? If so, how?

Are the bass overpopulated leading to the smaller, but healthy fish?

 

Any ideas?

 

Joe

[JackJr]

45 minutes ago, 5/0 said:

I have a friend who tried to manage lily pads and cattails on his 5 acre pond. It basically has a mud bottom and the cattails will extend 10-20 feet from shore all around the pond. Then the pads another 10-20 feet outside the cattails. It is really a pain in the ass to fish.

He tried the blue stuff with no luck. He finally used his dozer and chains to rip out some of the cattails. A lot of work to say the least and they grew back in a heartbeat! It was fine for a while, but not for too long. The bass population remained good. All are healthy, but are predominately in the 1-2 pound range.

Which leads to other questions. They may be off topic here, but I’ll put them forward anyway.

Like I said, the pond has a mud bottom. Which begs the question of where do they spawn?

The predominant forage in the pond is crappie. There are tons of them. I’ve never seen a blue gill and he’s tried to plant them with no success.

I’m sure there are crawdads in the pond, but again I’ve never seen one. He’s planted those also.

Are the crappie messing with the pond ecosystem? If so, how?

Are the bass overpopulated leading to the smaller, but healthy fish?

 

Any ideas?

 

Joe

Bass usually spawn on hard bottoms and they spawn on wood and around lily pads. It's possible the big females aren't getting enough food because of all the crappie and small bass. If I were him I would try to transport a solid amount of male bass out and add spawning areas around the bank. 

[Defiant Clone]

14 hours ago, 5/0 said:

I have a friend who tried to manage lily pads and cattails on his 5 acre pond. It basically has a mud bottom and the cattails will extend 10-20 feet from shore all around the pond. Then the pads another 10-20 feet outside the cattails. It is really a pain in the ass to fish.

He tried the blue stuff with no luck. He finally used his dozer and chains to rip out some of the cattails. A lot of work to say the least and they grew back in a heartbeat! It was fine for a while, but not for too long. The bass population remained good. All are healthy, but are predominately in the 1-2 pound range.

Which leads to other questions. They may be off topic here, but I’ll put them forward anyway.

Like I said, the pond has a mud bottom. Which begs the question of where do they spawn?

The predominant forage in the pond is crappie. There are tons of them. I’ve never seen a blue gill and he’s tried to plant them with no success.

I’m sure there are crawdads in the pond, but again I’ve never seen one. He’s planted those also.

Are the crappie messing with the pond ecosystem? If so, how?

Are the bass overpopulated leading to the smaller, but healthy fish?

 

Any ideas?

 

Joe

My dad has a childhood friend who had a very similar problem, they solved it years ago by introducing some carp to the pond. As far as I know that cleaned it up as I have never seen a cattail there since I started going and its been a productive lake for us. 

[J._Bricker]

@JackJr, I understand your concerns, and I agree with you that the chemical treatment of submerged vegetation does effect the fish. In my opinion it also affects bass spawning and spawn by removing cover and depleting the treated area of oxygen.  On a positive note, bass are a hardy fish and it might take a little time for both you and the fish to adjust. I did attach a photo of fish I caught after the Hydrilla had been treated. Scales were like tiny potato chips, the reddish skin was blistered, but I’m pretty sure it survived.

 

@5/0, your friend might consider doing what the California State Department of Parks and Recreation has been doing for years in the Delta to kill the tulles. The State uses @Roundup Custom to control the hyacinth and vigorously sprays the tulles, a spray crew referred to it as “collateral damages”. The State is permitted to use the grandfather of Agent Orange  for this purpose, not sure a permit would be granted to a private citizen for large scale use.

[N Florida Mike]

I manage my small lake for weeds, algae etc. I don’t do the actual treatments but work with a local company. 

If we did not treat the weeds the lake would be quickly overrun with weeds in all the shallow areas, which would greatly reduce fishable area. We have 2 extremes of people on the lake. Those that never want to see one weed in the lake, and those that want it all natural- no weed control. Most people could care less. I’m about 2/3 of the way to all natural myself, because it’s better for the fishing, but I also have to please those that are in the “ no weed “camp. It’s not easy.

That being said, I have seen 0% reduction of bass in our lake with once a month treatment. When the weeds all die in the winter the fish don’t relate to the weeds because they aren’t there. Fishing becomes tougher. When the weeds come back in late spring, fish immediately start relating to them again.

I am very much against total herbicide control of weeds in lakes but I realistically must allow some control.

Our old lake sprayer,( a resident) got nearly total control of weeds and only sprayed 1-2 times a year. He did it for 25 years without a fish kill. In 2011 he killed all the weeds( they were really bad because he hadn’t sprayed in a year) , the oxygen level tanked, all the big bass and bream died. My wife watched him scooping them up with a net.It took me 3 years to catch a 4 pound bass again. I wanted to wring his neck. He also lied to me about it. The smaller fish generally survived.

Now, our bass population is excellent, and no re stocking was needed. I actually need to cull some out we have so many. And this is with once a month treatment.

It sounds like you can’t do anything about it but try different baits than normal- maybe the fish got used to the same old baits. 

[5/0]

Thanks for the responses! I go up there 2-3 times a year to fish and have success always, so I shouldn't complain! You could put a banana on a hook and it'll get bit! But you do get kinda tired of catching only 1-2 pound bass.

It is an entirely mud bottom pond and that is why I was asking myself where they would spawn? There are no stumps or anything else hard enough to support a nest. I once talked to a guy in our club about this and he suggested putting large pavers in shallow areas and in any creek arms that may be in the pond. I passed this on to the owner.

I am convinced that the crappie have a very large influence on the problem. He did agree on this and spent time catching and removing them. He would get numerous 5 gallon buckets of them! You could put a piece of white yarn on a hook and catch them all day! His wife loves to catch crappie, so suggesting that they be whittled out of the pond went over like a fart in church!

The pond gets to about 25-30 feet in the middle. I've tried fishing out there with C-Rigs and T-Rigs and got zip. Best fishing is in the pads, cattails, and along the outer edges of them.

Introducing carp is an intriguing idea. I've seen them in Clear Lake in northern California rolling and tearing up any vegetation in their wake. I'll have to ask him if he wants to try that.

We've spoken about the lack of bluegill in the pond. he's tried introducing them, but it never took. I think the amount of crappie has a lot to do with that idea.

One last point. The owner is convinced that otters are a big problem. He thinks that they get the big fish and eat the crawdads. I personally don't know if they're otters or muskrats since I haven't ever seen them, but he says he has.

 

Joe

[N Florida Mike]

Bass will bed in a mud bottom lake. They won’t do it in real deep mud, but they will traditionally bed in the same areas year after year. They bed in my lake, which is all mud bottom.

Carp are helpful, although fairly expensive. They have certain weeds they like better than others though. I’ve got some 40-50 pounders in my lake.

Otters are probably why you aren’t catching fish. They ate every catfish in my lake! I fished hard for 1-2 years for them after the last otter sighting and the catfish fry finally grew up enough for me to start catching some. Otters can’t catch bass as good, because bass are more elusive than catfish but in a small pond with limited cover they can definitely thin out a population.

 

You might try the Pond Boss forum. It’s a very helpful place to get info.

[Koz]

21 hours ago, 5/0 said:

I have a friend who tried to manage lily pads and cattails on his 5 acre pond.

 

The only real way to treat cattails is treating them one by one, spreading chemicals over the entire stalk. Keeping some cattails is good for filtration, but left unchecked the will dominate the basin.

 

As for treated ponds, I've faced that before. In some the treat the basin with chemicals to rid it of all weeds, and in others they just cut the aquatic vegetation down as far as they can with mechanical equipment.

 

Afterwards, the bass are still there but you have to hunt them down. What I have found is that they hang out in the hollows in deeper water. Keep in mind this hollow might only be 6"-10" deeper than the main part of the basis, and it might not be that big. You can find these depressions in various places around the basin. The big question if you can reach those spots when you're bank fishing.

 

You need to methodically fish the basin to find the structure changes further away from the bank. If you are bank fishing and have something like an iBobber or Deeper you can map the bottom for structure and depth changes.  Chances are the fish are still there, but they've adapted to their surroundings and found new ambush points in the basin.

[The Bassman]

1 hour ago, N Florida Mike said:

 

 

You might try the Pond Boss forum. It’s a very helpful place to get info.

Can't thank you enough. This site is a gold mine of info.

[Bankbeater]

A couple of years ago a lake near me was treated to kill excessive amounts of coontail. Now the only vegetation in the lake is around the shore. The bottom is pretty much clear of all vegetation, the water has gone from clear to murky, and the bass bite has dropped off to almost nothing.

You can see 5 or 6 bait balls come up every once in a while, so I’m not sure if the decrease in bass bites is because the bass can feed easier or if it’s from the change in the water.  

[geo g]

Without a doubt it has a big effect on fishing.  In smaller lakes it ruins bedding areas, cover for bait fish and bass ambush points.  I have fished man made lakes loaded with bass of all sizes.  After several years of spraying you would be lucky to catch a single bass in these same lakes. It should be a crime to nuke these bodies of water.

[Scarborough817]

what likely happens is the bass in these ponds are used to feeding on gills and smaller bait fish that are eating plankton and alike that live in the vegetation. without that vegetation the food sources might change or be harder to find for these fish, they will likely end up on some off shore structure, or roaming the banks which is what i see at a local place