I'm Getting Into Hunting!

[Quarry Man]

long time member here. I am an avid outdoorsman, and got really into bass and trout fishing five years ago. My friend was talking to me the other day and expressed an interest in hunting. He is 22 and I am 18. Nobody in either of our families has ever been or expressed an interest in hunting. We live in PA and want to start hunting together. We both want to use rifles, hunt on foot, and target deer. behind my lake house there are 17,000ish acres of state game lands. I spend a lot of time hiking back there and have a pretty good mental layout of the land. 

 

We both plan on purchasing rifles, as we would like to get into shooting and hunting simultaneously. I am looking at either a Remington 700 Magpul Enhanced in .308 or 300 Win Mag. also considering the Remington 700 LTR in .308. My friend would like to get an AR-15 style rifle. I am realizing there is a significant price difference in 300 Win Mag and .308. If I were to get the 300 Win Mag, I would likely only use the rifle for hunting, and would do range shooting with my friend's AR-15. 

 

I told my friend to look into getting a Federal Firearms License, as both of our rifles are expensive and this will save us a lot of money even with the license fee.

 

The next step would be to purchase a scope. I am thinking of a 4xish scope, whether that is an ACOG style scope or a traditional rifle scope. Would likely be shooting a shorter ranges but would like the option to go long too. I relize I am not at the point where I am going to be making very long shots, and cannot afford a scope for that stuff yet.

 

I do have a very nice pair of binoculars that I will be using to spot deer, which helps negate some of the high cost.

 

I would obviously need Camo, hunting license etc.

[Russ E]

.308 is a good all around cartridge for anything from deer to elk. ammo is relatively cheap and there are a lot of options.

Not sure how much experience you have with rifles, but 300 win mag is a lot of rifle if you are targeting whitetails.

If moose or elk are your target than it would be a good cartridge.

The recoil can be brutal and under 200 yards it has very little advantage over the 308 on deer sized game.

If long range is your goal the 6.5 Creedmoor is much more pleasant to shoot and just as effective on whitetails.

In all honesty there are very few hunters that can consistently hit past 150 to 200 yards under hunting conditions, with any gun.

 

 

[jimmyjoe]

56 minutes ago, Russ E said:

In all honesty there are very few hunters that can consistently hit past 150 to 200 yards under hunting conditions, with any gun.

   Man, you just said a mouthful!   jj

[Quarry Man]

59 minutes ago, Russ E said:

.308 is a good all around cartridge for anything from deer to elk. ammo is relatively cheap and there are a lot of options.

Not sure how much experience you have with rifles, but 300 win mag is a lot of rifle if you are targeting whitetails.

If moose or elk are your target than it would be a good cartridge.

The recoil can be brutal and under 200 yards it has very little advantage over the 308 on deer sized game.

If long range is your goal the 6.5 Creedmoor is much more pleasant to shoot and just as effective on whitetails.

In all honesty there are very few hunters that can consistently hit past 150 to 200 yards under hunting conditions, with any gun.

 

 

you make a good point with the .308, cost and learning curve are going to have an impact on me and this will help a lot

[Russ E]

1 hour ago, Quarry Man said:

you make a good point with the .308, cost and learning curve are going to have an impact on me and this will help a lot

good luck.

One note: after you sight the gun in, practice shooting from different positions. (standing, kneeling, resting against a tree). A lot of hunters sight in on a bench rest and figure they are good to go. Only thing a bench rest does is show how well a gun will shoot. It does not show how well the hunter can shoot. shooting in real world hunting situations is a lot different than sitting at a bench rest.

[jimmyjoe]

39 minutes ago, Russ E said:

It does not show how well the hunter can shoot.

   It also doesn't show how well the hunter can hunt. Best not to sit in  one place and expect your quarry to parade in front of you. Yes, some people take game like that, and do so successfully. But the best bets are on the hunter who knows his game, their habits, how those habits change with the seasons, and how to be stealthy without a tree stand. Look at it like fishing for bass: the better you know your fish and how it reacts to its environment, the more successful you'll be. Good casting skills added in, like good field shooting skills, can make your efforts pay off.   Good luck!     jj

[Bird]

4 hours ago, Russ E said:

.308 is a good all around cartridge for anything from deer to elk. ammo is relatively cheap and there are a lot of options.

Not sure how much experience you have with rifles, but 300 win mag is a lot of rifle if you are targeting whitetails.

If moose or elk are your target than it would be a good cartridge.

The recoil can be brutal and under 200 yards it has very little advantage over the 308 on deer sized game.

If long range is your goal the 6.5 Creedmoor is much more pleasant to shoot and just as effective on whitetails.

In all honesty there are very few hunters that can consistently hit past 150 to 200 yards under hunting conditions, with any gun.

 

 

Been hunting for exactly 51 yrs and agree with your advice. 

[gim]

308 is over kill if the target is whitetail. I would use a smaller caliber like a 30-06, 270, or 7mm-08, etc if I was going to buy a rifle intending it to be used for whitetail. You might want to also consider the type of habitat you’ll mostly be hunting too. Open country calls for a long, flat shooting caliber whereas in heavy timber it would not be necessary.

[Russ E]

12 minutes ago, gimruis said:

308 is over kill if the target is whitetail. I would use a smaller caliber like a 30-06, 270, or 7mm-08, etc if I was going to buy a rifle intending it to be used for whitetail. You might want to also consider the type of habitat you’ll mostly be hunting too. Open country calls for a long, flat shooting caliber whereas in heavy timber it would not be necessary.

308 is a very popular cartridge for whitetails.

the 30-06 and 270 both  deliver more energy than the 308. not sure how they could be better, if 308 is overkill.

[gim]

My mistake I was thinking of the .338

[Russ E]

2 minutes ago, gimruis said:

My mistake I was thinking of the .338

Now that would be overkill for deer. Probably would not half to trail a deer far if you hit it in the vitals?

[Quarry Man]

ultimately, would like to use the rifle for long range shooting, so I think I'm gonna invest in the 300 Win Mag. I believe my grandfather has a 30-30 and a .308 so ill mess with those as well and will decide. Going to get some cheap 300 win mag ammo to set the rifle up and then put a few rounds through in hunting grade and ill be ready to go.

On 9/22/2019 at 8:20 PM, jimmyjoe said:

   It also doesn't show how well the hunter can hunt. Best not to sit in  one place and expect your quarry to parade in front of you. Yes, some people take game like that, and do so successfully. But the best bets are on the hunter who knows his game, their habits, how those habits change with the seasons, and how to be stealthy without a tree stand. Look at it like fishing for bass: the better you know your fish and how it reacts to its environment, the more successful you'll be. Good casting skills added in, like good field shooting skills, can make your efforts pay off.   Good luck!     jj

this is good advice. if I am taking game over 250 yards, I will be laying down. Planning on a mobile hunting style, on foot in the woods. this makes it important to practice both methods of shooting. I have decent knowledge of the woods in the area im planning on going which will help.

1 minute ago, Russ E said:

Now that would be overkill for deer. Probably would not half to trail a deer far if you hit it in the vitals?

might just buy a 50 cal...

[jimmyjoe]

   One thing that hasn't been mentioned here but is VERY important is safety. ALWAYS carry on an empty chamber. Never trust a safety mechanism. One slip on a snowy slope, one drop onto a rock or frozen ground, and you might be lucky enough to know why. So practice field fire from an empty chamber, mounting the rifle and working the action at the same time. That way, you'll have confidence and consistent results in the field. Not only that, but someday you'll be able to tell your grandchildren about it!   ?   jj

[Russ E]

47 minutes ago, Quarry Man said:

ultimately, would like to use the rifle for long range shooting, so I think I'm gonna invest in the 300 Win Mag. I believe my grandfather has a 30-30 and a .308 so ill mess with those as well and will decide. Going to get some cheap 300 win mag ammo to set the rifle up and then put a few rounds through in hunting grade and ill be ready to go.

this is good advice. if I am taking game over 250 yards, I will be laying down. Planning on a mobile hunting style, on foot in the woods. this makes it important to practice both methods of shooting. I have decent knowledge of the woods in the area im planning on going which will help.

might just buy a 50 cal...

 

I have shot quite a few rounds through a 300 win mag. Honestly they are not much fun to shoot.

if you have a chance, I would try to shoot one before investing in the rifle. they have a very sharp recoil.

a .308 delivers around 12 ft-lbs of recoil. a .300 win mag delivers over 20 ft-lbs of recoil.

That may not bother some people, but after shooting a dozen rounds through a .300 win mag I feel beat up.

I grew up deer hunting Iowa with a 12 gauge slug gun. they have a very heavy recoil. A .300 win mag is similar, but the recoil is a lot faster.

I can shoot a .308 all day.

Also with the high velocity, the barrels wear 3 times faster than a 308, or a 30-06.

[GReb]

Any of the standard calibers will do fine for whitetail. Spend your money on a nice scope. That’s where you will notice the most difference especially in low light conditions. 

[Randy Price]

I rifle hunt in WI and AR and use a LH Rem. 700 in .308 and have been very pleased with it.

[CroakHunter]

I hunt Indiana and its Hard to beat a 30-30 or 20 gauge for deer. Both are accurate past 100 yards (I have made farther under perfect conditions) and have great knock down power and are readily available. 

Also with the right gun, a barrel change in the 20 gauge and youve got a good clay pigeon, turkey, dove, home defense gun.

My personal suggestions would be something like a Henry lever action 30-30 or a Remington 870 20 gauge or mossberg 500.

Another really really fun route you could take is to get an ar-15 style rifle, buy a 300 blackout upper for deer hunting and use the .223 upper for target shooting and small game like coyote. With the release of two pins the uppers can be switched out. That may be a rabbit hole you dont wanna go down unless you really enjoy shooting/spending money

[jbsoonerfan]

I own quite a number of guns, but if I were going to own just one for hunting and fun shooting, it would be a 6.5 Creedmoor in an AR 10 platform. Sky's the limit on that one.

 

[Randy Price]

A good lever gun for the woods of PA is a Marlin 336 in .35 REM.

[MN Fisher]

7 minutes ago, Randy Price said:

A good lever gun for the woods of PA is a Marlin 336 in .35 REM.

I'll double down on that 336 - when I was deer-hunting in the woods of northern MN, that was my choice...though mine was in .30-.30

[Randy Price]

17 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

I'll double down on that 336 - when I was deer-hunting in the woods of northern MN, that was my choice...though mine was in .30-.30

.30-30 is good too.  I just had a special spot in my heart for the old brush busting .35 REM.

[gim]

 Started with a lever action 30-30 at the age of 12. It was easy to operate, reasonably priced, had minimal recoil, and wasn’t heavy. Just one problem: the longe range accuracy was terrible. I found myself shooting at deer that were 300 yards away and the bullets would hit the dirt in front of them. So as soon as I could afford it, I upgraded to a longer, flatter shooting caliber. 2 years ago I dropped a doe at 307 yards 5 minutes before legal shooting time ended. There is no way that 30-30 was capable of that, which is exactly why I got rid of it. Don’t get me wrong here; that 30-30 was a good starter rifle when I was a kid, but over time it just didn’t get the job done anymore.

[fishballer06]

Being that I also live in PA, I think it's important that you realize a few things about hunting in PA. 

 

1. You want to stalk hunt on PA state game lands. That's fine and dandy and all, but the PA woods are FILLED with hunters during deer season. Most of which who use the state game lands aren't always the wisest/brightest/safest of hunters. So walking around in those woods is likely going to lead to you walking in front of/around other hunters who are in stands or blinds. So walk with extreme caution, and be extra careful on where you are shooting whenever you finally get a shot. You never know who else is around you that could be within range. 

 

2. A 300 Mag is going to be total overkill hunting in the woods where your range in limited to under 70 yards usually. Unless you are hunting fields and shooting 2-600 yards, there's no need for that rifle. The 308 is going to be the best all around caliber you can get. It's cheap to shoot, readily available, and it's very trustworthy in the woods, and even out to 300-ish yards in the fields. 

 

3. Semi auto rifles like an AR are not legal to hunt with in PA. So do not buy one. Bolt action is the way to go in PA. 

 

4. Obtaining an FFL license in order to purchase 2 rifles? That sounds like a lot of headache whenever a trusty 308 can be purchased for roughly $500. 

 

5. A 3-9x40mm scope is perfect for hunting around here. The adjustable zoom is good for short or long range and the 40mm bell is good for collecting light in the early morning or late evening. 

 

6. There's really no sense in buying camo either, since PA requires 150 square inches of florescent orange to be worn and visible in 360* on your entire upper body and head. So invest in a good warm orange jacket that is also resistant to snagging when walking through the brush, as well as a good orange hat. An orange beanie is a good investment too for those super cold days. 

 

7. Most of all, learn to shoot and be accurate so you can comfortably make a kill shot. No body wants to see a wounded animal running around the woods and not being recovered. Luckily, shooting is the most fun part, so shoot as much as you want and enjoy!

 

 

Sorry if I'm being a Debbie Downer, but as another PA resident, I thought is would be wise to help bring you up to snuff on what is required in PA. When you buy your license, read the manual well and know all of the laws. I'm not sure about an 18 year old, but you may be required to take a Hunters Safety course. And if you aren't required to take one, I recommend you do take it since you have never hunted before. 

[Bird]

On 9/23/2019 at 9:18 PM, jimmyjoe said:

   One thing that hasn't been mentioned here but is VERY important is safety. ALWAYS carry on an empty chamber. Never trust a safety mechanism. One slip on a snowy slope, one drop onto a rock or frozen ground, and you might be lucky enough to know why. So practice field fire from an empty chamber, mounting the rifle and working the action at the same time. That way, you'll have confidence and consistent results in the field. Not only that, but someday you'll be able to tell your grandchildren about it!   ?   jj

Yes safety first.

I was taught as a child to treat every gun as if it was loaded before proceeding.

[NHBull]

If I was hinting in your next of the woods, I would break out my 30-30.

It is a great brush gun and don't see you taking a shot further than 100 yards.