Trouble with Backlash on Strong Casts?

[Reverendo]

I'm not new to baitcasters, so I'm a little befuddled with this new combo I'm breaking in (Calcutta Conquest 400 & 7'10" rod, 30# Samurai braid). I'm using this combo in South Florida's inlets for snook, etc., but it is basically a swim bait combo (which is why I’m posting here). The bait is Live Target Mullet (1.5 oz.). I've adjusted the spool control knob and breaks according to standard. I can good casts with no backlash with moderate casts, and achieve moderate distance. The problem is when I really want to put some zip into the cast to get some extra distance. The extra zing gets me nasty backlash early on in the cast cycle. I've tried tightening the spool control knob but with limited success. Yes it'll stop the backlash, but it also limits the casting distance. I do use my thumb to "feather" the spool, but it is not that well trained. Is there a remedy to this other than more practice? Someone mentioned they thought my line diameter was too small for the heavy baits I intend to cast (1-3oz). 

[OkobojiEagle]

The obvious conclusion is don't try to "bomb" it, cast smoothly and consistently.

 

oe

[roadwarrior]

Add another brake and loosen the spool tension control. For me that means 4 brakes.

 

[Gorris317]

I agree with above statement. I would turn on another brake and back of the spool tension knob a tad bit.

[JustJames]

The braid kill it.

how do you know you only got moderate distance with your moderate cast?

even with well train thumb gonna be hard to do a hard cast with such heavy lure on baitcaster that why a lot of saltwater anglers switch to spinning gears for bomb cast heavy lure.

You can switch to mono and cast as hard as you can without backlash, I bet you won’t see a lot of distance gain from moderate lob cast.

 

Added, samurai braid #30 is only .01 diameter, I wonder how many hundreds yds can fit in 400 size shimano. That line alone would give a hard time to a lot of bass fishermen with regular low profile reel trying to bomb cast regular lures. 

[Deleted account]

10 minutes ago, Gorris317 said:

I agree with above statement. I would turn on another brake and back of the spool tension knob a tad bit.

Yup, in addition, you may want to try a more viscous lube in the spool bearings, and practice casting with more line off the tip and loading the rod as low as the weight of the lure will allow. I know this is different than what most LMB guys are used to, but it's how you get distance, which is the name of the game in the surf, a jetty or the like, and lastly, really lean into it, it sounds counterintuitive, but once you have set the reel right, it will cause less trouble with backlashes if you get a good sized lure sailing down range with more initial velocity.

[new2BC4bass]

2 hours ago, BassWhole! said:

Yup, in addition, you may want to try a more viscous lube in the spool bearings, and practice casting with more line off the tip and loading the rod as low as the weight of the lure will allow. I know this is different than what most LMB guys are used to, but it's how you get distance, which is the name of the game in the surf, a jetty or the like, and lastly, really lean into it, it sounds counterintuitive, but once you have set the reel right, it will cause less trouble with backlashes if you get a good sized lure sailing down range with more initial velocity.

When I got my first Sol, I had all kinds of trouble with a 1/4 oz. lure.  Until I finally said the hell with it and went for a long cast.  Backlashes became minimal.  Counter intuitive.  But it worked for me.

[OnthePotomac]

Which is why I do not like to fish with braid, except on my frog set up with 50lb 832 and I roll cast the frog.   No backlash and reasonable distance and I have been on a bait caster for 19 years.  I am a mono and flouro lover.

[Gorris317]

37 minutes ago, OnthePotomac said:

Which is why I do not like to fish with braid, except on my frog set up with 50lb 832 and I roll cast the frog.   No backlash and reasonable distance and I have been on a bait caster for 19 years.  I am a mono and flouro lover.

Same here. Actually had a nasty backlash earlier this year on braid and lost a whopper plopper. Backlashed so hard the knot broke and lure went flying. 

[diehardbassfishing]

Looks like this rod (new to you I assume) has a tip that will really "whip" on those aggressive casts. Most (all?) rods will do this at some point. If you choke down the reel for backlash control at this extreme, you'll have poor performance for the majority of your use. Guess you could keep re-adjusting, but that's not what need to be doing.

 

The funny and important thing I've found, is that forceful casts don't really gain much (if any) extra distance anyway! Really can't beat the distance from a nice evenly forced long swing of the rod. Likely because with a good even cast the rod is not getting overloaded, and you're getting the "proper spring" out of it. Overload the spring of the rod, and things just don't go well.

 

I see people talking about braid, I don't have experiance to talk about this. I do know I can see out of control backlashes using mono and fluoro when casting too strong. Especially if there is any extra whip at the end of a Superman cast!

 

Karl

 

(Just read again - I see those lure weights. What is the rod's lure weight range? If you're far out of range, you need to do more of a long slow lob cast.)

 

[dodgeguy]

12 hours ago, roadwarrior said:

Add another brake and loosen the spool tension control. For me that means 4 brakes.

 

What he said. Centrifugal come on at the front of the cast then back off. There is a point of no return where casting harder nets you no gain and will cut your gains in the form of backlash.my best casts are achieved without trying to bomb it.

[jimmyjoe]

6 minutes ago, dodgeguy said:

There is a point of no return where casting harder nets you no gain

   Correct. This is because the harder cast accelerates more, keying the centrifugal control to brake harder, and damping the RPM. Surfcasters and jettymen get their long distances by using 4 oz or heavier weights and long, smooth casting strokes. Look up Tommy Farmer videos. He'll give you a good idea of how the heavier stuff works. You might find that you're already sitting in the sweet spot for the line and lures that you're using.     jj

[Hammer 4]

Trying to cast with a bunch of power is like trying to hit a golf shot as hard as you,neither has a good outcome..

 

Just for reference, when I had my dobyns 806 with a Shimano 301E reel spooled with 30lb samurai braid, I could easily toss a 6" hud trout bait about 60 yards.  

[islandbass]

Are you allowing the rod to be loaded properly by the lure’s weight?  If all else is properly set to the lure then this is really the main reason you’re getting the backlash. You have to ensure this. When I properly load my rod I can throw it as hard as I want (but I don’t) and the reel will not backlash. When I fail to do this you can be reasonably certain that if my last line of defense fails, ie, my thumb, a buds nest is gonna happen, lol. 

[Mikeltee]

Why the need for bomb casts? Are you my long lost siamese twin that tries to set PB with casting distance when the fish arent biting? Man I've lost a lot of lures and caused lots of hours of picking out backlashes with this habit. To our credit though people like use experiment with all settings to learn the limits of our gear so when we need to max it out, we can.

[Hammer 4]

Making long cast's I find helps if, your fishing in gin clear water. In stained water not so much. Also it's a good idea to be stealthy, i.e. don't make a big splash with the bait. Having the proper gear is key for making effortless long cast's.

[Deleted account]

I see the the term "casting harder" and the analogies to golf swings. What one is trying to achieve for long casts (and golf drives, and hitting homers, and huge tennis serves) isn't about swinging "harder" it's about swinging (or casting) faster, it's about bat (of club head, or racket, or rod) speed. Strength does come into it when talking of larger tackle, and heavier lures, but technique and timing is the key, this isn't apparent under most LMB applications, as distance is often not the objective, on the surf, it's a must.

[Reverendo]

On 8/12/2019 at 9:50 AM, Bass_Fishing_Socal said:

The braid kill it.

how do you know you only got moderate distance with your moderate cast?

even with well train thumb gonna be hard to do a hard cast with such heavy lure on baitcaster that why a lot of saltwater anglers switch to spinning gears for bomb cast heavy lure.

You can switch to mono and cast as hard as you can without backlash, I bet you won’t see a lot of distance gain from moderate lob cast.

 

Added, samurai braid #30 is only .01 diameter, I wonder how many hundreds yds can fit in 400 size shimano. That line alone would give a hard time to a lot of bass fishermen with regular low profile reel trying to bomb cast regular lures. 

Moderate meaning a somewhat forceful cast but not very strong. lol

350yds. of 30# if you're wondering. 

[Reverendo]

For reference, the rod is a Japanese Tulala Swimbait rod (Monstruo 710), rated for 1/2 oz. to 7 oz. It has a moderate / fast taper.  The 1.5 oz. Live Target mullet, does not seen to be overloading the blank.  Though the lure has some drag, I do not think it's a major deal. 

 

I just read Hammer 4's post where he casts a 6 in. Hud trout on similar outfit 60 yards.  60 yards!  I find that to be insane!   I think I'm getting about 30 yards out of mine, maybe 40.  I will put the range finder to it this afternoon to verify. 

[Reverendo]

Yep getting about 40 yards. 42 on the good side. 38-39 on a normal cast.

[Hammer 4]

Rev, how do you have the brake set up on the Calcutta..?  Is it possible to little braking and to much spool tension..?

[Tim Kelly]

I would think a rod rated up to 7oz is hardly going to load with 1.5oz.  Did you try lengthening the drop when you are casting?  I still think your line is the biggest part of your problem though. 30 Samurai is way too thin, it's about like 10lb power pro. I would get a spool of 65lb power pro and put that on instead. I bet it helps things considerably. Absolutely no sense in putting 300 yards of any line on a reel used for bass fishing.

[Reverendo]

OK right now I have three of the eight brakes on. I tried all the brakes on and went down to just one brake on. Of course with the one brake, I  used more thumb control. In all instances the maximum distance I could get was about 40 yards.  When I really try to put some uumph into it, I would get the overrun about 20 to 25 yards in.

 

By the way I come to the site to gain knowledge from some of the best fishermen in the industry,. In saying that I hope I don’t get flamed for saying that I’m using 350 yards  mainly because I’m fishing for LMB’s Saltywater cousins, Mr. Snook.  In the salt is not uncommon to have a fish, not necessarily a snook, zip off 150 yards in a blink. 

[new2BC4bass]

12 hours ago, Reverendo said:

Yep getting about 40 yards. 42 on the good side. 38-39 on a normal cast.

Yup.  Something ain't right.  My first guess would be the rod for that weight.  I have a 7'6" MHF rod from a brand known to fish heavy that is rated 3/8-1 1/4 oz.  It will barely cast a 1/2 oz. spinnerbait a decent fishing distance.  Forget about 3/8 oz.

 

Lighter line will only help casting distance.  I'd be leery of 30# braid as I have snapped a 1/2 oz. jig off when my 30# braid wrapped around the rod tip (spinning rod) and I didn't notice.

 

I'd have to say 60 yards is doable with the right rod.  The reel I was using on a 7' MHF rated 1/4-1 oz. with a 3/4 oz. saltwater spoon tied on was leaving me with less than half a spool of line on my better casts.  It holds 135 yds of 12# mono.  I was using 40# braid which is supposed to be equivalent to 12# mono.  Spool filled to the bevel.  I am not one of those guys capable of spooling a reel.

[Reverendo]

Though the rod is rated for weights up to 7 oz., I cannot see it casting something as heavy.  The 1.5 oz. Live Target seems to be loading well.  

I wonder if this lure's drag (resistance) is contributing to this?  If my overruns are occurring midway through the cast, wouldn't that suggest the lure is slowing down quite bit?