Getting old/sick

[Way2slow]

How do people afford to live once old age starts breaking you body down, or contract some long term illness requiring special medications.

I have never really given it a thought since I'm retired military and also have social security so other than a small co-pay on medications, medical cost are nothing for me.   

Things came to light a few weeks ago when my rheumatologist prescribed Humira for me and I went to their web site to educate myself on what I would be taking.  First things I saw was this medication cost $5,400 a month.  For me, it's only $24 a month but what happens someone doesn't have the insurance I have and have to pay as much as 25% co-pay.  Not many people could ever afford something like that. 

Then I got to looking at the fine print on a lot of the medication ads on TV, and many of those are in the thousands of dollars.

I was talking to my wife's sister who's husband recently died of cancer and she said his co-pay for the medications they had him on was up to $7,000 per month and it had wiped out their 401K and retirement funds and had to take out a large loan on their house that was paid off, so when she lost most of his retirement income, she was forced to declare bankruptcy.

I guess they figure if you need anything more than an aspirin for an illness, you just suffer or die.   

[J Francho]

I ask the same thing about Type 1 diabetics, which I am.  The cost is insane.  I hit my out of pocket max back in April.  My FSA was empty by February.  Co-pays and fees quadrupled this year.

[Way2slow]

My daughter is Type 1 and has been for over 25 years but luckily has always had good insurance, but that looks like it's about to change.  She's working for CVS pharmacy and they are making all kinds of manning cut backs and cutting hours on most employees so they will have a hard time maintaining enough hours to qualify as full time employees and insurance. Right now, she's picking up enough hours by working in other stores also, but not sure how long that will last.  Her doctors says she really needs to go on disability, but as you know, that's a lot easier said than done.

[J Francho]

When I was out of work, the American Diabetes Association helped me with getting the insulin and supplies I needed.

[Harold Scoggins]

2 hours ago, J Francho said:

Co-pays and fees quadrupled this year.

This makes me so mad, I better leave this thread before my blood pressure goes up.

[J Francho]

We can't get political here.  I know, it's difficult not to.  We can at least commiserate.

[NHBull]

I remember reading a study when meeting with an estimate planner ( not for me ?), that medical expenses incurred during that last 6 months of life, can be more than the previous 10 years.....For many, there are legal tools that can preserve the total loss of an estate, but that to takes $$$$

[Junger]

My wife is a health insurance broker, the US healthcare system is the wild wild west.  Health insurance carriers are supposed to simplify the system, and reduce costs for their members by negotiating prices with providers for us, among other things. Look at the earnings of publicly traded healthcare insurance carriers. There is zero incentive to change the system when they post billions in annual earnings.

 

 

[slonezp]

My mother is currently going thru chemo. She has lymphoma in her heart. Once all is said and done, her medical bills will probably be upwards of $500,000. Not intentionally making this thread political, but based on that number, how in the hell can we, as a nation, afford to give free healthcare to everybody? 

[jimmyjoe]

24 minutes ago, slonezp said:

My mother is currently going thru chemo. She has lymphoma in her heart. Once all is said and done, her medical bills will probably be upwards of $500,000. Not intentionally making this thread political, but based on that number, how in the hell can we, as a nation, afford to give free healthcare to everybody? 

   One of the principles of economics, whether applied to medicine, to manufacturing, to the military, to the arts or to education, is very simple:

   Nothing is free. 

   Looking at it that way, things become a little ... not much, but a little ... simpler.      jj

 

[Way2slow]

I was not trying to get into who gets free health care and who goes broke trying to pay for it because they work for a living. 

However, it think this discussion has gone about as far as it can go without getting into forbidden territory and I can see Glenn getting ready to raise the red flag so I think it's probably best we just go ahead and drop it.

[slonezp]

6 hours ago, Way2slow said:

I was not trying to get into who gets free health care and who goes broke trying to pay for it because they work for a living. 

However, it think this discussion has gone about as far as it can go without getting into forbidden territory and I can see Glenn getting ready to raise the red flag so I think it's probably best we just go ahead and drop it.

My intention was not to take it that direction but it is a hot topic. As it goes, a good portion of the excess costs is no different than any other business. Loss is built into the selling price. If we paid, and I hate to use the word "fair" prices for our medical care, while still providing free care for the have nots, every medical facility and insurance company would not exist. I pay higher insurance rates on my truck for the same reason. 

Organic food costs more because of the loss from not using insecticides and fertilizers. Loss from theft is built into retail prices. So on and so forth. Theoretically, it's not political, just the cost of doing business. If there were zero loss, the costs to the end user would be reasonable. 

[ike8120]

I think about this all the time, I am 70 and still working 40 hrs a week and on call once every 6 weeks. I know I will have to retire soon and it scares the hell out of me.

[Scott F]

I’m on Medicare and so far, it’s the best health insurance I’ve had. I filled 2 prescriptions for short term dental issues yesterday, my total cost was 32 cents. My long term drugs which are all generic, are free. Monthly cost for Medicare is only  $135. My wife on the other hand is paying $800 a month for not so good coverage. 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by J Francho
Political comments removed

[TnRiver46]

I have a friend who is a big time pharmacist and started a company with the purpose Of getting the super expensive hard to get drugs in the hands of the people that needed them for a reasonable amount of money. They knew it would only have a 5-6 year run before it got shut down. He made it all the way to one of the top guys (In that city on the Potomac) and had a meeting scheduled that was of course cancelled last minute. Monster profits will always win out when you get to that level. I’m very thankful everyday that I don’t have to walk into a doctor/hospital or take any medicine. 34 years so far so good, that’s very fortunate compared to a lot of other folks. 

[Junger]

11 hours ago, slonezp said:

My mother is currently going thru chemo. She has lymphoma in her heart. Once all is said and done, her medical bills will probably be upwards of $500,000. Not intentionally making this thread political, but based on that number, how in the hell can we, as a nation, afford to give free healthcare to everybody? 

I think we have a fundamental right to not die. My opinion would be to make the healthcare industry not-for-profit, like a government sponsored entity similar to how Freddie Mac and Sallie Mae operate. I'm not saying it has to be government run, just backed by the government and legislation to make the industry more transparent. Now imagine if you take all the billions of dollars of earnings out of the bottom line of these entities and put it back into cost savings to us, how much would healthcare actually cost. 

 

And best wishes to your mother and your family, I hope it all works out.

[Scott F]

Most hospitals affiliated with religious organizations are already not for profit. They just roll the profits into expanding the hospital, not lowering prices. 

[Junger]

40 minutes ago, Scott F said:

Most hospitals affiliated with religious organizations are already not for profit. They just roll the profits into expanding the hospital, not lowering prices. 

Correct, but the insurance carriers (most) are not. Medical supply companies will sell a roll of toilet paper to the not-for-profit for $20. The hospital will invoice the carrier for that toilet paper roll for $100, knowing that the carrier will ultimately pay $50. Your medical bill is $100, but you only pay $5. Carriers then justify a 12% premium increase because they show on their financials the rising costs of medical care, i.e. a $20 roll of toilet paper.

[Way2slow]

Why do the drug companies charge so much.  Because they can.

Why do petroleum companies charge so much.  Because they can.

Then they hide behind the excuse they need those billions of dollars in profit each year to pay for future research and development.   However, when a pharmaceutical company puts a new product out, like this Humira I'm taking and charge over $5,000 per month for it, they say "oh, we have to do that to pay for the research and development that went into it".  I thought that's what those billions they had already gouged us for was supposed to be for. 

[J Francho]

The doctors that invented insulin gave it away for free.

[Way2slow]

That's like when I was in the Air Force.  Back in the 80's Motorola had the contract to build 93 Special HF radios to go throughout Europe.  There was a location in Germany the technicians could not get it to work with the Germans equipment.  I was the project manager so the AF sent me there to see what the problem was.  It  boiled down to it was going to take a special interface box to work.  I designed and built and interface box from parts I could get off the economy and in AF inventory.  Took me about two days and probably less than $100 worth of parts.  There were four other locations that had the same German equipment and was going to need that same interface box.  I sent pictures and schematics I had drawn up for the one I built to Motorola so they could build four more to be included with the equipment going to those other four locations. 

When we got the revised version for those other four sites, it used the same identical copy of the schematic I sent, the same pictures I sent and an exact copy of the same interface box I made for the first sight. 

They charged the Air Force $230,000 to make those four boxes.  $200,000 was for engineering and development. I asked their project manager how much of that was I gonna get since I did all the engineering and development.

[Tim Kelly]

Living in the UK, with a very good, though obviously not perfect national health system, I can't imagine the terror of living in America with the constant possibility of being forced into bankruptcy just because you have the misfortune to have an accident or get ill. A friend of mine who has a very good job and could easily retire is kind of forced to keep working just to keep the healthcare insurance for him and his wife until they're old enough for medicare. Universal healthcare seems like it should be a basic tenet of a civilized society, especially in developed countries, from my European perspective.

[gim]

My Grandfather died of bone cancer in 2012 that originally started as prostate cancer.  Even after he was diagnosed, he lived for 3+ years going through regular treatments of chemo.  He told me before he died that the medical system had probably spent over a million dollars on him in 3 years for treatment, and he paid virtually nothing because he was on Medicare and had paid into it his entire working life.

 

I am not going to comment on the current system of health care because it is too political related.  I want to, but I'm not going to.

 

In many less developed countries, you simply pay for as much health care as you need.  If you need more, you buy it.  If you need it and can't afford it, you get sick or die.

[Way2slow]

I too am on Medicare, but also have Tricare through the Air Force and can go to the VA if totally desperate.

I have not been to a rheumatologist since I retired and was getting in serious need to start back to seeing one. 

We did some research and asking around and found one that was considered on the tops in the field in our area.   I called and they said she only saw referrals from another doctor, so I got my primary care doctor to send a referral.  Two weeks later I call the rheumatologist office to check on the referral and they said they were getting all my insurance info.  Four weeks later I call again, an was told they would call me when they had my appointment date.  Six weeks later, I go to her office to find out what the hold up was. 

The hold was she was they were not doing Medicare appointments. They had over 300 referrals waiting that were Medicare patients and waiting for appointments, that they were not going to get.  It wasn't until I explained I also had Tricare as a secondary insurance to pay the cost that Medicare didn't pay was I able to get the appointment. 

My wife is going to have the same hand surgery I had at the end of this month.  Her doctor said we would have to drive the 120 miles to their surgery facility in Alabama because none of the hospitals in our area would schedule it any time within reason, because with Medicare, they would loose too much money with what Medicare would pay.  

He said Medicare and Tricare are great for the patient, but medical facilities are loosing large sums of money because they are only paying about a dime on the dollar for what it cost.

So, it's getting harder and harder to get quality heath care if you only have Medicare.

[jbsoonerfan]

I told my wife that if (and more than likely when)my health becomes a burden either financially or I have to be baby sitted. I will take care of the problem myself.