Does it hurt a fish when you drop it

[Tim Kelly]

3 hours ago, BadContrakt said:

Someone up above me mentioned that this thread is silly... Yeah.. Kinda.

 

What I think is silly is that some people still believe fish don't feel pain. You must not fish much to believe that.

Fish undoubtedly have a sensation of feeling. Attributing pain, in the sense we feel it, to them is a little naive I think. You only have to see fish with horrendous looking wounds swimming round and eating to realise that they can't possibly experience pain in the sense we understand it. 

[BadContrakt]

6 minutes ago, Tim Kelly said:

...a little naive I think.

When hooking a small baitfish, let's say, a small mullet, sucker minnow, whatever... in the nose or maybe under the spine in the back, it goes like this:

 

fetch the fish from the bait bucket

fish squirms around a bit because he's being scooped out of the water

fish squirms around for 10-15 seconds until you firmly grasp them and they relax

the SECOND that hook breaks the skin, they squirm and they squirm a lot. They flinch hard, and don't stop squirming around after 10-15 seconds. It's obvious that it hurts. It's pretty obvious. Same thing with simply getting the hook out of a bass's mouth. If it's a tough hook to get out, when prying at the hook, they can flop around due to the obvious pain. I'm no scientist but it seems pretty obvious to me.

[J Francho]

35 minutes ago, BadContrakt said:

It's obvious that it hurts. It's pretty obvious.

How so?

[BadContrakt]

5 minutes ago, J Francho said:

How so?

Put a hook through your back and under your spine and let me know how much you wriggle around.

[Tim Kelly]

4 minutes ago, BadContrakt said:

Put a hook through your back and under your spine and let me know how much you wriggle around.

Error

[Dwight Hottle]

12 minutes ago, BadContrakt said:

Put a hook through your back and under your spine and let me know how much you wriggle around.

Humans are not fish. Fish are not humans. 

[Hammer 4]

Bottom line is, do your best to take care of the fish you catch and release..

[soflabasser]

On 7/17/2019 at 10:26 AM, Choporoz said:

Why? Would any answer change your behavior? Are you egregiously careless or intentionally dropping fish now?  A little care and respect should be all you need.  Knowledge about good handling procedures will go a long ways.  I agree with @soflabasser and @J Francho.  Pain and injury are different...and unless you are trending well into animal rights territory, just try not to drop them and don't worry further

Thank you @Choporoz. I believe most of us in this forum enjoy bass fishing and do our best to safely release bass. Studies have shown that catch and release fishing is very effective and there are many cases where a bass gets caught multiple times. There are certain organizations that would love nothing better than to make fishing illegal and I won't be surprised if they are reading this thread. I plan on fishing for the rest of my life and will continue eating meat which includes fish.

[Sam]

5 hours ago, BadContrakt said:

Someone up above me mentioned that this thread is silly... Yeah.. Kinda.

 

What I think is silly is that some people still believe fish don't feel pain. You must not fish much to believe that.

No Bad, we just read, read, read and then we speak with pros and we go to the Bassmaster Classic every now and then and we meet and speak with the Berkley research scientists and we see bass that have been attacked and have gashes on their sides and they swim like nothing is wrong.

 

May I suggest you send some emails to some of the pros and ask them for their opinions. They will answer your emails. Or go to a B.A.S.S. Open and meet the pros and ask them about the bass feeling pain as you get their autographs on your cap.

 

Until we have a definitive scientific study regarding what bass actually feel all we can do is rely on the current scientific data.

 

It would be fantastic if you would go to college and get your Ph.D. in fisheries biology from a Sea Grant University and do some research for us on this topic. You can head down south where the weather is warm and the girls are beautiful. Start out at LSU, get your masters at Florida and then your Ph.D. at Florida State. 

 

If you can find a copy of Dr. Jones' book please get it at a library and read what it says about bass feeling pain. You can contact Dr. Jones and ask him, too. I think you can get a copy of the book for around $145 or so on ebay.

 

And if you go to LSU you can enjoy some great food. See some outstanding football games. Have dates with very pretty girls. And hit the New Orleans French Quarter and see some things that you have only heard about. And fish everyday of the year, unless they are having a hurricane pass through, then you have to wait to the next day.

 

Now start doing your homework and let us know what you find out about bass feeling pain.

 

[Dwight Hottle]

When you get done with Sam's list try reading this. 

 

 

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130808123719.htm

[Cam R]

On 7/17/2019 at 10:26 AM, Choporoz said:

Why? Would any answer change your behavior? Are you egregiously careless or intentionally dropping fish now?  A little care and respect should be all you need.  Knowledge about good handling procedures will go a long ways.  I agree with @soflabasser and @J Francho.  Pain and injury are different...and unless you are trending well into animal rights territory, just try not to drop them and don't worry further

I never intentionally hurt fish nor do I ever keep them idk what you’re intending here. Im just asking if you drop a fish will it kill them later on or injure them. Thats all. 

[AlTheFisherman313]

I’m pretty sure scientifically speaking a fish like most animals feels pain, how they interpret the pain is what differs. This is at least what I have read and seems to be the scientific consensus. 

 

This is the general understanding i was under, I also have heard their nerve endings differ and if you properly hook a fish it’s “less painful” which in a way makes sense. Some areas are less painful to cut on our own body’s! 

 

But again, they are animals they go of instinct Pain to them, may trigger a flight response hence the fight, they may not sit there like Peter griffin holding his knee, but I’m sure they experience discomfort. 

[jbsoonerfan]

Maybe it just hurts their feelings?

[Sam]

12 hours ago, Dwight Hottle said:

When you get done with Sam's list try reading this. 

 

 

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130808123719.htm

Outstanding!

 

This is why we need Bad to get his Ph.D. in fisheries biology so he can continue the study.

 

Thanks for sharing the updated information.

 

So the debate goes on......

[J Francho]

15 hours ago, BadContrakt said:

Put a hook through your back and under your spine and let me know how much you wriggle around.

When I'm reborn as a fish, which karma will most certainly guarantee, I'll get back to you.

[haggard]

A net really helps keep the drop rate down. Unhook them in the net and keep the net under them while handling.

 

 

[BadContrakt]

Imagine if, like fish, a dog could move freely and do all of its normal activities but didn't have a voice. Then imagine sticking a hook in the dog's back. He's going to flail around and run around and bite at the wound because it hurts and he's confused.

 

Now give a fish a voice. You think he's going to stay silent when you hook him? Just because fish don't have arms, legs, necks, or a voice doesn't mean they're not clearly expressing pain. They're doing it how they know. The only way they know. "swimming away" which while in midair it just looks like "flopping". Come on y'all are smarter than this. Researchers, media outlets, and pros of all sorts in all sports always have strings attached to their arms and a deep pocket of cash to reach into if they say what someone wants them to say or hear what someone wants them to hear.

[Dwight Hottle]

14 minutes ago, BadContrakt said:

Imagine if, like fish, a dog could move freely and do all of its normal activities but didn't have a voice. Then imagine sticking a hook in the dog's back. He's going to flail around and run around and bite at the wound because it hurts and he's confused.

 

Now give a fish a voice. You think he's going to stay silent when you hook him? Just because fish don't have arms, legs, necks, or a voice doesn't mean they're not clearly expressing pain. They're doing it how they know. The only way they know. "swimming away" which while in midair it just looks like "flopping". Come on y'all are smarter than this. Researchers, media outlets, and pros of all sorts in all sports always have strings attached to their arms and a deep pocket of cash to reach into if they say what someone wants them to say or hear what someone wants them to hear.

 

 

You don't seem to understand that fish are not mammals. Do some research rather than make asine statements!

[BassNJake]

25 minutes ago, BadContrakt said:

Imagine if, like fish, a dog could move freely and do all of its normal activities but didn't have a voice. Then imagine sticking a hook in the dog's back. He's going to flail around and run around and bite at the wound because it hurts and he's confused.

 

Now give a fish a voice. You think he's going to stay silent when you hook him? Just because fish don't have arms, legs, necks, or a voice doesn't mean they're not clearly expressing pain. They're doing it how they know. The only way they know. "swimming away" which while in midair it just looks like "flopping". Come on y'all are smarter than this. Researchers, media outlets, and pros of all sorts in all sports always have strings attached to their arms and a deep pocket of cash to reach into if they say what someone wants them to say or hear what someone wants them to hear.

Have you ever heard of the expression about comparing apples to apples?

I can cut a flat worm in half and it will wriggle around but both sections will live.

Should I expect the same behavior if I chopped some bird in half?

 

Do you think all living things have the same brain capacity?

 

Is it all the researchers that are bought and paid for or just the ones regarding fish feeling pain?

 

 

[J Francho]

Let's get a couple other things straight.  Because science!

 

 

[BadContrakt]

9 minutes ago, BassNJake said:

Have you ever heard of the expression about comparing apples to apples?

I can cut a flat worm in half and it will wriggle around but both sections will live.

Should I expect the same behavior if I chopped some bird in half?

 

Do you think all living things have the same brain capacity?

 

Is it all the researchers that are bought and paid for or just the ones regarding fish feeling pain?

 

 

All of them!

[J Francho]

We're done here.  OP: get a net.