when a warranty is a joke

[Deleted account]

1 minute ago, Junger said:

Can you point that to me in the UCC code?

Consumer product warranties fall primarily to the states.

A warranty can cover or not cover anything and everything. Not sure where he's getting "free of charge". 

[F14A-B]

2 minutes ago, iabass8 said:

Because this issue is the OP and everybody else in this topic that things "lifetime warranty"= free lifetime replacement.  If you or the OP had taken 5 seconds to read over the warranty for Phenix, this would be a non issue. It says literally at the top of the page :

 

Shipping fee is required, regardless of the outcome of warranty.  This warranty does not cover any damage to this product that result from fire,  intentional breakage,  accident,  abuse,  misuse,  natural disaster,  repair,  or modification.

 

His rod is 3 years old and the bold out portion is what his issue falls under. Phenix did nothing wrong or misleading.

 

Haha. Reading is fundamental. Clearly, I never stated Phenix was liable. I asked a question about why J thinks using social media to discuss warranties on a rod, reel is wrong? 

 

I can decide on my own if the OP has a legit issue based on his/her OP. Folks often vent their frustrations on social media. There could be a legitimate issue concerning equipment. Such as when "Carrot stixs" were breaking often and the company wouldn't honor the warranty. Boyd Duckett had plenty to say about it..(using social media)

 

RAGE rods by St. Croix was another rod that was abysmal. However St. Croix stood by their warranty claims. If these issues are not discussed on social media then how would information be traded? 

 

I stand by my statement. Rod and reel manufacturers should be held accountable for their quality and the implied warranties that they offer. 

 

I have an opinion on the OP but I'm not giving it rather choosing to be an earpiece and a little empathetic on a broken rod.

 

OP. TFO offers an unconditional warranty on many of their rods. I use a couple including a "traveler" series 3 piece. It's a very decent rod.. 

 

Happy fishing! 

[fin]

Lesson learned here is ‘Lifetime Warranties’ vary widely, and not only on rods. If the warranty is a selling point to you, you should read it before buying.

 

I was surprised the first time I read some of those rod warranties too. Some of us that grew up with warranties like Craftsman tools take ‘Lifetime warranty’ to mean something different than the discount replacement programs offered for rods. In a way I guess you could say it’s a little bit deceptive, but it’s common practice.

[Jrob78]

2 hours ago, Alonerankin2 said:

 

Haha. Reading is fundamental. Clearly, I never stated Phenix was liable. I asked a question about why J thinks using social media to discuss warranties on a rod, reel is wrong? 

 

I can decide on my own if the OP has a legit issue based on his/her OP. Folks often vent their frustrations on social media. There could be a legitimate issue concerning equipment. Such as when "Carrot stixs" were breaking often and the company wouldn't honor the warranty. Boyd Duckett had plenty to say about it..(using social media)

 

RAGE rods by St. Croix was another rod that was abysmal. However St. Croix stood by their warranty claims. If these issues are not discussed on social media then how would information be traded? 

 

I stand by my statement. Rod and reel manufacturers should be held accountable for their quality and the implied warranties that they offer. 

 

I have an opinion on the OP but I'm not giving it rather choosing to be an earpiece and a little empathetic on a broken rod.

 

OP. TFO offers an unconditional warranty on many of their rods. I use a couple including a "traveler" series 3 piece. It's a very decent rod.. 

 

Happy fishing! 

My issue wasn't discussing warranties on social media, it was bashing a company that hadn't done anything wrong. My 2nd post was a direct reply to OP pointing out the terms of the warranty.

 

I understand OP's frustration about breaking a rod but a 3 year old rod shouldn't be subject to a free replacement. I'm all for holding companies accountable when they screw over customers but that isn't the case here. 

[EllisJuan]

I have been happy with G Loomis's warranty.  I had one with a manufacturing defect and it was quickly replaced.  I had two NRXs replaced on two different occasions after accidental damage for $125 including shipping both ways.  I find comfort knowing if I spaz and stick a $500 rod in the ceiling fan or slam it in a vehicle door I am only out $125.

[CrankFate]

I never had a warranty or replacement issue with a rod or reel. In general, I think warranty is the last factor to ever consider. Good products almost never need warranty service. I know car manufacturers intentionally sell defects, so warranty might matter more with things like that, but rods and reels? I don’t even think about warranty. 

 

And don’t even get get me started on the $120 my wife paid for a warranty service on the HVAC system gas pressure sensor that wasn’t designed for dips in gas pressure When it was supposed to be covered, when they fixed it when I wasn’t home.

[Diggy]

I completely understand what you're saying. I have seen other companies charge almost the price of the whole rod on their warranty programs when you total things up. I will also agree with you on Abu's customer service taking care of people the right way. I haven't bought one of their rods in years, but I always tell people that their customer service was top notch when I had problems. I never had to pay any ridiculous fees if any at all. I recently emailed them a guide repair/replacement question for a Gen 1 Veritas micro guide rod that I own which is wayyyyyyyyy out of warranty. They offered me an amazing discount on a new rod to remedy my issue which wasn't even anything major. I got my local shop to fix the issue for me for under 10 dollars, but the offer was generous considering the issue. 

[hwright38]

On 7/16/2019 at 11:02 AM, Rip_lipz said:

My wife laughs at me because I have dropped so many companies due to stuff like this, even smaller inconveniences. Anything I buy now I go through Cabela's, I don't even bother spending my money anywhere else. I bought the Lowrance boat in a box bundle, I believe it was over 2000 dollars. After installing and testing, I realized I hated the units. I called Lowrance to see if I had a faulty unit, long story short, they would not take my exchange. So, I called Cabela's, after a couple of tiers of management I got a full refund. This was over 30 days of owning the units. Their customer service in my opinion is unmatched.

That seems like you didn't research the units enough and made your problem someone else's.

 

I've had to deal with countless customers that buy stuff without knowing what they're getting into, then decide to storm in and throw a fit over it when it doesn't work, even after I told them it wouldn't. Not saying you specifically threw a tantrum over it, but I've seen grown men act like toddlers because I wouldn't approve a return on something that they knew we wouldn't accept a return on. 

 

There's a lot of entitlement in this thread tbh. Maybe I'm just jaded from all the people that think they're royalty because they spend $500 a year in a retail store and decide to make some minimum wage workers life just a bit worse.

 

/rant

 

 

 

[Tim Kelly]

A rod breaks after three years use, suck it up. A friend of mine had a rod that was probably 10 years old and one day the carbon cloth started unwrapping. He spoke to the manufacturer and they replaced it with an apology. That is what a manufacturer warranty is for. The company who made the rod didn't have a lifetime warranty program of any sort, but being reasonable people they could see it was obviously a manufacturing fault.

[Hammer 4]

My 3 cents. Unless I spent like 6 or 700.00 usd for a rod, which I'd never do. After 3 years, I'd chalk it up to ..I got my moneys worth and buy a replacement. Todays rods being more sensitive are prone to breaking easier than the older iM 8's ect..Hopefully the OP caught some nice fish with that rod.

[Rip_lipz]

7 hours ago, hwright38 said:

That seems like you didn't research the units enough and made your problem someone else's.

 

I've had to deal with countless customers that buy stuff without knowing what they're getting into, then decide to storm in and throw a fit over it when it doesn't work, even after I told them it wouldn't. Not saying you specifically threw a tantrum over it, but I've seen grown men act like toddlers because I wouldn't approve a return on something that they knew we wouldn't accept a return on. 

 

There's a lot of entitlement in this thread tbh. Maybe I'm just jaded from all the people that think they're royalty because they spend $500 a year in a retail store and decide to make some minimum wage workers life just a bit worse.

 

/rant

 

 

 

You don't believe people are entitled to their hard worked money? If your company sells a junk product they are at fault not the customer. Maybe you should reread your vision and mission statement. What happen to costumer first?

 

 

[Deleted account]

20 minutes ago, Rip_lipz said:

You don't believe people are entitled to their hard worked money? If your company sells a junk product they are at fault not the customer. Maybe you should reread your vision and mission statement. What happen to costumer first?

A warranty spells out the legal obligation of a manufacturer and or retailer in connection with the sale of a product.

If a company sells a rod (or anything else) that is the extent of their obligation no matter whether one thinks its "a joke", "ridiculous", "not worth it" or anything else. Anything a company does or does not do in addition to what is spelled out in the warranty is at it's discretion and it's up to them to decide what makes sense in terms of customer service, and keeping (or think they are keeping) customers. Companies, no matter what they do or make are in the business of making money. The mission statements are PR.  People are absolutely entitled to their money (hard earned, or otherwise) which is why they should research their purchases, as well as all other contracts they may enter into, and once doing so expect everything that transaction spells out, not some " i want a new one at no cost to me no matter what because Social Media is powerful"

 

 

 

[Rip_lipz]

1 hour ago, BassWhole! said:

A warranty spells out the legal obligation of a manufacturer and or retailer in connection with the sale of a product.

If a company sells a rod (or anything else) that is the extent of their obligation no matter whether one thinks its "a joke", "ridiculous", "not worth it" or anything else. Anything a company does or does not do in addition to what is spelled out in the warranty is at it's discretion and it's up to them to decide what makes sense in terms of customer service, and keeping (or think they are keeping) customers. Companies, no matter what they do or make are in the business of making money. The mission statements are PR.  People are absolutely entitled to their money (hard earned, or otherwise) which is why they should research their purchases, as well as all other contracts they may enter into, and once doing so expect everything that transaction spells out, not some " i want a new one at no cost to me no matter what because Social Media is powerful"

 

 

 

Your opinion not mine. Ill keep my money. 

[hwright38]

14 hours ago, Rip_lipz said:

You don't believe people are entitled to their hard worked money? If your company sells a junk product they are at fault not the customer. Maybe you should reread your vision and mission statement. What happen to costumer first?

It's none of my business if you decide to throw your hard earned money at stuff without doing proper research, I just don't have any sympathy for individuals who think they're entitled to a free rental of expensive equipment. Is every store a risk-free trial program where you can buy stuff willy-nilly and just return it if you don't like it now? What ever happened to accountability?

[iabass8]

On 7/18/2019 at 5:30 AM, Rip_lipz said:

You don't believe people are entitled to their hard worked money? If your company sells a junk product they are at fault not the customer. Maybe you should reread your vision and mission statement. What happen to costumer first?

 

 

lol...

[Scrapiron]

On 7/18/2019 at 6:30 AM, Rip_lipz said:

You don't believe people are entitled to their hard worked money? If your company sells a junk product they are at fault not the customer. Maybe you should reread your vision and mission statement. What happen to costumer first?

 

 

I'm in agreement with a lot of folks here, after 3 years it's probably not a 'defect'; yes there are edge cases that happen. The 'customer is always right' and 'customer first' myth is a recipe for a business to fail. True, the business should be making a product that meets the expectations of the customer in regards to performance, durability, etc.  As has been said, research, research some more and personal accountability should all be a part of the equation (there are others but not relevant to this discussion).

 

From Dateme Tamuno:

"Historically, the maxim ‘The customer is always right’ was coined in 1909 by Harry Gordon Selfridge, the founder of Selfridge’s department store in London, and is typically used by businesses to convince customers that they are priority at the expense of everything. It is normally argued that customers are the employers of a company- as they pay the bills and wages of a given company. That notwithstanding, Alexander Kjerulf, wrote that this maxim leads to bad customer service. He put forward five reasons why companies should not uphold this thinking in the contemporary business environment.

 

The reasons are:

1) It makes employees unhappy
2) It gives abrasive customers an unfair advantage
3) Some customers are bad for business
4) It results in worse customer service
5) Some customers are just plain wrong

 

There is simply an argument that businesses that think the customer is always right end up betraying employees. Gordon Bethune in his book: ‘from worst to first’ stated: “The fact is that some customers are just plain wrong, that businesses are better off without them, and that managers siding with unreasonable customers over employees is a very bad idea, that results in worse customer service.”

 

In a contemporary business environment, full of competition and similarity of products and prices, companies continue to seek an effective customer strategy. When companies try to please all customers, by making them always right- it ends up negatively affecting employee morale and customer experience. The salient point is, to make customers understand their rights and use discretion to meet their needs even when they are wrong. It is more of a discretionary than a mandatory action, to go over and beyond- even when a customer is at the wrong. If you fail to remember anything, do keep this thought to heart, ‘customers are not always right but showing them their right is the meat to customer experience.’"

[Deleted account]

42 minutes ago, Scrapiron said:

I'm in agreement with a lot of folks here, after 3 years it's probably not a 'defect'; yes there are edge cases that happen. The 'customer is always right' and 'customer first' myth is a recipe for a business to fail. True, the business should be making a product that meets the expectations of the customer in regards to performance, durability, etc.  As has been said, research, research some more and personal accountability should all be a part of the equation (there are others but not relevant to this discussion).

 

From Dateme Tamuno:

"Historically, the maxim ‘The customer is always right’ was coined in 1909 by Harry Gordon Selfridge, the founder of Selfridge’s department store in London, and is typically used by businesses to convince customers that they are priority at the expense of everything. It is normally argued that customers are the employers of a company- as they pay the bills and wages of a given company. That notwithstanding, Alexander Kjerulf, wrote that this maxim leads to bad customer service. He put forward five reasons why companies should not uphold this thinking in the contemporary business environment.

 

The reasons are:

1) It makes employees unhappy
2) It gives abrasive customers an unfair advantage
3) Some customers are bad for business
4) It results in worse customer service
5) Some customers are just plain wrong

 

There is simply an argument that businesses that think the customer is always right end up betraying employees. Gordon Bethune in his book: ‘from worst to first’ stated: “The fact is that some customers are just plain wrong, that businesses are better off without them, and that managers siding with unreasonable customers over employees is a very bad idea, that results in worse customer service.”

 

In a contemporary business environment, full of competition and similarity of products and prices, companies continue to seek an effective customer strategy. When companies try to please all customers, by making them always right- it ends up negatively affecting employee morale and customer experience. The salient point is, to make customers understand their rights and use discretion to meet their needs even when they are wrong. It is more of a discretionary than a mandatory action, to go over and beyond- even when a customer is at the wrong. If you fail to remember anything, do keep this thought to heart, ‘customers are not always right but showing them their right is the meat to customer experience.’"

Never read that before, but completely agree. I refuse to sell a bike on average about once every 2 weeks to "that guy" (It's always a guy). What has skewed things quite a bit in the last few years are large corporations who don't really look at the bottom line, in pursuit of market share. That having been said, most customers are a pleasure to deal with, and I will not hesitate to go above and beyond, and go to bat for them with the manufacturers. 

[S Hovanec]

Am I the only one that believes a rod warranty should be 1 year or less?  If it doesn't break the first couple times it's used, obviously there are no manufacturer defects.  I load up every blank I buy prior to building it.  If it doesn't break, there's nothing wrong with it.

 

Think GM or Ford is gonna replace your truck after you run it through the garage door?  Why do we expect rod companies to do the same?  It's all Gary's fault for starting that lifetime BS years ago.

[Junger]

2 minutes ago, S Hovanec said:

Am I the only one that believes a rod warranty should be 1 year or less?  If it doesn't break the first couple times it's used, obviously there are no manufacturer defects.  I load up every blank I buy prior to building it.  If it doesn't break, there's nothing wrong with it.

I think 3 years is good. I have a couple rods that I don't use more than a few times a year, and just last month one of the eyes came loose, after only throwing it maybe 50 times in a 2 year period. After looking at the eyelet, it looks like the thread was not that tight, but I'm not a rod repair expert.

[fin]

5 hours ago, Scrapiron said:

I'm in agreement with a lot of folks here, after 3 years it's probably not a 'defect'; yes there are edge cases that happen. The 'customer is always right' and 'customer first' myth is a recipe for a business to fail. True, the business should be making a product that meets the expectations of the customer in regards to performance, durability, etc.  As has been said, research, research some more and personal accountability should all be a part of the equation (there are others but not relevant to this discussion).

 

From Dateme Tamuno:

"Historically, the maxim ‘The customer is always right’ was coined in 1909 by Harry Gordon Selfridge, the founder of Selfridge’s department store in London, and is typically used by businesses to convince customers that they are priority at the expense of everything. It is normally argued that customers are the employers of a company- as they pay the bills and wages of a given company. That notwithstanding, Alexander Kjerulf, wrote that this maxim leads to bad customer service. He put forward five reasons why companies should not uphold this thinking in the contemporary business environment.

 

The reasons are:

1) It makes employees unhappy
2) It gives abrasive customers an unfair advantage
3) Some customers are bad for business
4) It results in worse customer service
5) Some customers are just plain wrong

 

There is simply an argument that businesses that think the customer is always right end up betraying employees. Gordon Bethune in his book: ‘from worst to first’ stated: “The fact is that some customers are just plain wrong, that businesses are better off without them, and that managers siding with unreasonable customers over employees is a very bad idea, that results in worse customer service.”

 

In a contemporary business environment, full of competition and similarity of products and prices, companies continue to seek an effective customer strategy. When companies try to please all customers, by making them always right- it ends up negatively affecting employee morale and customer experience. The salient point is, to make customers understand their rights and use discretion to meet their needs even when they are wrong. It is more of a discretionary than a mandatory action, to go over and beyond- even when a customer is at the wrong. If you fail to remember anything, do keep this thought to heart, ‘customers are not always right but showing them their right is the meat to customer experience.’"

I pretty much agree with that, but it's tough to implement in your front line retail sales staff. The key there is to deflect to a manager or other person trained to deal with such matters that is authorized to use discretion. There are customers that know they can usually buffalo timid employees by making a scene, and those customers are not worth having. On the other end, some employees that lack experience can permanently run off valuable customers over disputes in very small sales.

 

The beauty of ‘The customer is always right’ is that it's a simple maxim that any employee can grasp. Maybe it should be ‘The customer is always right, but a supervisor must authorize all exceptional returns’.

[kroberts9]

On 7/16/2019 at 4:31 PM, Junger said:

Can you point that to me in the UCC code?

its semantics at this point, if phenix wants to spin the word warranty to fit their needs that's fine. 

the pure definition of the word warranty is just what i posted. 

 

and yes even a manufacture defect can take time to show. why do automobile companies extend warranty on certain parts? if misuse of this product was using 10 lb braid to a 6 lb leader or fishing an 1/8 oz drop shot or even storing it in a protective sock then i'm guilty. misuse is simply fishing with the rod i guess.

 

Again I could careless that the rod broke, if this was a product that cost 30,000 and the statement said the identical lifetime warranty statement everyone here would be up in arms over it as well.   

[kroberts9]

Man this thread blew up and went down many worm holes. ALL I wanted to point out was a simple fact the word WARRANTY implies repair or replace is on the manufacture. 

 

driving a car through a garage door while drunk does not imply a warranty replacement, but if your brakes fail from a defective master cylinder due to a .30 cent moisture barrier which allowed excessive water into the brake fluid which would take time to show up not a couple times out and you drive through your door guess what GM,Ford or any other company for that matter will be sued. 

 

it does not matter it can be a 5 dollar widget or a 100k tesla the whole point of the post was the definition for the word WARRANTY. I appreciate the points of view of others but again feelings aside check out the Definition of the word and tell me if what is offered is WARRANTY or REPLACEMENT PROGRAM.

[Junger]

3 hours ago, kroberts9 said:

 ALL I wanted to point out was a simple fact the word WARRANTY implies repair or replace is on the manufacture. 

 

There are legal terms such as expressed warranty, and implied warranty. You're confusing the two, since Phenix explicitly states their expressed warranty. There is no implied warranty and you're basically upset that their expressed warranty does not correlate with what you would expect as an implied warranty. Amirite?

[iabass8]

9 hours ago, kroberts9 said:

 

it does not matter it can be a 5 dollar widget or a 100k tesla the whole point of the post was the definition for the word WARRANTY. I appreciate the points of view of others but again feelings aside check out the Definition of the word and tell me if what is offered is WARRANTY or REPLACEMENT PROGRAM.

Perhaps you could have taken 5 seconds to look up what the actual warranty for Phenix rods was and this would have been a non issue....You're also forgetting the definition of a warranty has context that you're reading over. "Within a reasonable amount of time". 3 years is beyond that.  Every company's warranty program is different. If every warranty was just implied as "free or replace" the word Warranty would just be stamped on the tag without any fine print. The word warranty doesn't mean "Opps, the product broke, oh well I get a free one". I get it, your upset you broke your rod but this isn't Phenix's fault. They're very clear about the warranty.