Any plumbers out there? Bathtub Spout problem.

[islandbass]

Hey guys, I have to replace a price Pfister bathtub spout. The thing is that after I found the hole underneath the spout, I inserted various hex wrenches but could find anything to latch onto. So I thought, maybe it’s a screw driver that’s needed. Same result. 

 

I was wondering how in the heck am I supposed to look up into that hole. I finally figured a mirror and bright light might do the trick and I think it might have. 

 

It seems that the spout is actually attached directly to the copper pipe and that there is no inserted object as I have seen in typical YouTube videos. 

 

So to the plumbers out there, are spouts ever directly attached to the copper pipe?

 

If so, what is the safest way to remove the spout? I was thinking to take some pliers and turn the spout ccw but I admit I don’t know and don’t want to rely if ignorance and an educated guess. If I can reduce the size of the picture, I’ll post it here to show that it appears that the spout is attached directly to the copper pipe. 

 

Also, this is a price Pfister single faucet and spout. My wife bought a delta set up. I opened the box and was dumbstruck. I see this piece that will attach to pipes behind the wall. Do I have to replace the one in the wall already in place with the delta one or is this a universal piece that could be used with the new delta spout?

 

i haven’t even gotten around to knowing how to replace the faucet or the shower head. 

 

If if I can get away with just replacing the Pfister spout with the delta spout I might be a happy camper until I figure out the rest else the kids have to continue using our shower, lol. 

 

This is is a shot of a reflection of the hole underneath the spout. That brownish spot that is in the light bordering the black moon shaped shadow is what I think is the copper pipe. So exactly how are the copper pipe and the spout attached to each other and how do I safely remove the spout without damaging the copper pipe? 

Thanks ahead of time. 

 

 

 

-ib

 

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by islandbass
Added picture

[12poundbass]

If there’s no set screw and it’s copper then the copper probably has a threaded male end and you can just unscrew it and replace it pretty easily. Make sure you have Teflon tape to put on the threads. 

 

If the seals are good on the faucet I’d leave it alone and just replace the spout.

[islandbass]

Thanks. That did appear to be the case. Now if I know anything about my wife, she is going to probably want to have the Pfister faucet and shower head replaced with their new Delta counterparts.

 

Is is there a way for me to know if the faucets and shower heads are a simple swap out?

 

Working 7 days a week, I can’t afford to encounter snafus so I’ll take a day of in case I need the extra time, lol. 

Thanks again, 12poundbass. 

[MN Fisher]

30 minutes ago, islandbass said:

Is is there a way for me to know if the faucets and shower heads are a simple swap out?

The fittings are usually standard. Only thing you have to know is what diameter the pipes are. 1/2" and 3/4" are the two standard sizes.

 

<- Someone who does all the plumbing work around the house.

[islandbass]

Thanks,MN. I’m probably going to get a chance to delve into this on Tuesday. I’ll keep you all posted. ?

[jbsoonerfan]

Thread size and length are what need to be checked. I was going to change out a Glacier Bay for a Delta and the Delta was a touch longer and wouldn't thread on. 

[islandbass]

First update. 

 

I got the spout off!

 

I did some research about basic spout installation but it appears that it is not as straightforward as I hoped.

 

The copper pipe is threaded at the end and none of the installation examples covered this case. 

 

a close up

 

 

The old spout was screwed onto the pipe by those threads. 

 

The new delta spout (below) has a plastic thing with threads which is probably typical. It also came with an adapter. 

 

 

The adapter will not fit over the threads because of that nut head thing of a jig at right behind the threads. 

 

So here is my educated guess. The nut looking head appears to be soldered onto the copper pipe which hopefully means that I should be able to remove it with some heat from a torch. I think this because there is a silvery line underneath going all the way around. 

 

If I can remove it, then I should be able to slide that adapter piece onto the pipe. 

 

 

The adapter does not have a set screw so I think it will need to be soldered on. I am tempted to find a version of this adapter with a set screw, but it must have come this way for a reason, lol. 

 

I’d like to know if anyone can tell me if I am on the right track or way off. Perhaps I should cutoff that threaded area if it isn’t soldered on?

 

Also, if I am on the right track I now have an excuse to buy a torch.  Can anyone recommend one that is affordable and get the job done? I’m thinking along Home Depot/Harbor Freight lines. 

 

Thanks, guys. The sooner I can get this done, the happier the wife will be and the sooner I can get back to doing what we all love ?.

 

 

 

 

[12poundbass]

It’s been forever since I did a whole lot of plumbing, so long ago pex was just coming out. But it does look like that could be soldered on. What do the directions say (loud gasp from the crowd lol)? The reason I ask is with the advancement of pex I thought soldering was a lost art, but this is retro fitting. 

 

If you can indeed solder it get that rubber O-ring off from there so you don’t melt it and put it back on after it cools. 

 

Any map gas torch will work. You can get them fairly inexpensive just about anywhere. You’ll need sand screen, flux, and solder. 

[islandbass]

Thanks, 12poundbass.

 

The instructions assume that the copper pipe is not threaded. As someone who is not a plumber, I was thrown off when the instructions said to use flux. I had no idea what the heck the instructions was talking about. You tube to the rescue. A couple videos showed basic copper pipe soldering including removing a soldered adapter. That is the only thing that got me to think that that threaded end piece was soldered onto the end of the pipe. If I didn’t watch that video I would have thought I would have to cut it off. 

 

Doing my research on a torch. I’ll also need to learn how to solder now. ?

[MN Fisher]

7 minutes ago, islandbass said:

Doing my research on a torch. I’ll also need to learn how to solder now. ?

As someone who's 'sweated in' many a copper line - the main advice I can give is...be patient. Even if you've done everything right, there's still a chance for pin-hole leaks. Can't tell you how many times I've had to re-melt the solder to seal those after installing whatever I'm putting in. So don't feel bad if the first try isn't a complete success...even those of us with years of experience still get them occasionally.

[Jigfishn10]

I removed an old Symmons Shower Valve in my house and replaced it with a Moen. I had to open the tiled wall to get at the valve and sweated the new one in and used these items. I didn't want to buy a canister of propane, so I decided to get an adapter for my grill tank.

 

Here's the links.

 

Torch Tip

 

Tank adapter

 

Worked perfect!

[islandbass]

Thanks, MN and Jifshin 10! I really appreciate all of your advice.

 

I will take my time when I attempt to remove that threaded nut thingy.

 

Now it's off to amazon!

 

 

[deaknh03]

so far everybody has been steering you right. I would add that you should put something under the area where your soldering and removing the threaded adapter to catch anything that falls, as it will ruin your tub. Also be very wary of the tile behind your copper, you don't want to burn it with the torch. 

[islandbass]

Thanks, deaknh03. I honestly wouldn’t have thought to do that. 

[Jigfishn10]

Can you assemble the new adapter to the tub spout and take a pic? It almost looks like you have to cut the existing pipe anyway, based on an install instruction on a Delta Faucet Cassidy Spout, it looks like that adapter can be installed about 1/2" to 1 1/4" from the tiled wall.

 

One other thing I'm noticing. The new spout has a shower diverter on it, does the old one have a diverter on it or is the diverter on the shower valve? How do you switch from tub filling to shower? Take a pic of your water valve.

 

Like @12poundbass mentions, take off the O-Ring prior to soldering, you can put a wet rag under the part your soldering like @deaknh03 mentions. Clean both the pipe and adapter surfaces with emery paper (plumbers sand paper), flux the pipe, install adapter in place and heat the adapter with a torch. Add solder to the edge of the pipe and adapter all around and it should just flow in. Wipe the joint with the wet rag while hot and wait til the part cools down before installing the O-Ring. Again, Teflon tape the threaded end that attaches the spout to the adapter. Install the spout. No need to over tighten the spout. Run a small bead of clear silicone caulk around the spout.

 

When you turn the water on, you may get some nasty colored water for a few seconds, this is normal.

[islandbass]

@Jigfishn10: Yes, it had a diverter. The spout is probably the only thing I have to really replace but I’ll probably replace the showerhead on the Mrs’ orders too. 

 

As for probably needing to cut it anyway, the thought crossed my mind. However, I will know for sure after I get that threaded part off. 

 

Thanks for the advice on everything. 

[islandbass]

@Jigfishn10: You definitely called it on needing to cut the pipe. I was looking at delta spout installation videos and their adapter demands use of pipe quite short.  and it looks like I’m going to have to cut it pretty short. 

 

The tool monkey made made me get a torch, pipe cutter and all the things like flux and solder. 

 

I bought a small bit of copper pipe to practice cutting since I’ve never done it before and it seems I’m only going to get one good chance. 

 

I still can’t believe how short the delta adapter requires the pipe to be. If my wife switches to another brand that demands a longer pipe to install the spout, it’s going be a no go, or more accurately, no go but have to go, lol. 

 

The next step is to practice soldering. I will be practice with the pipe I bought and a few couplings. 

 

While it isn’t the exact same procedure, it should be similar enough for practical purposes. 

[Jigfishn10]

@islandbass, don't forget emery cloth. Very important to use to clean pipe and fitting to ensure a good water tight install.

 

What year is your house? If your house is old enough, chances are they used cast iron for the drain. The threaded end you have sticking out now could very well be the same connection to the house drain. You may be able to get away from soldering all together.

 

Good luck on your install

[islandbass]

@Jigfishn10: Built in 1996/97. 

 

I inspected the delta spout to see if I could screw it on like the Pfister spout, and the plastic thing inside doesn’t want to readily come out as I hoped it would and I wasn’t going to over mess with it to try to remove it. 

 

I also learned that the delta adapter has a some kind of stop inside it so the pipe will not going to go through it all the way which is why I now have to cut the pipe to size which I really didn’t want to do. 

 

I removed the end piece with the torch to get a feel for using the torch and got the pipe cleaned up entirely for practice with some some light grit sand paper that I thought was an emery cloth that came with kit I bought. I will clean the pipe’s interior after I cut it to size. 

 

 

I work my graveyard job tonight and over the weekend so I won’t get to this until Saturday afternoon. Even old guys like me need to rest after an 8 hour warehouse job to be 100%, lol. 

 

Thanks! 

[Jigfishn10]

No need to clean the pipe's interior, you did a good job cleaning the exterior though. Sand the interior of the fitting itself, the end you're going to slide over the pipe and solder. only need to get in there about a 1/2" - 3/4" or so.

 

Maybe sand the end of the pipe where you cut it off one more time just for confidence that you're getting a good solder job.

 

Looks good so far!

[12poundbass]

Yup looking good so far.

[islandbass]

First, I want to say thanks to everyone who helped me. 

 

I found out that the adapter did not have a stop in it as I initially thought. I found this out when I inserted a clean piece of pipe through the adapter and it shocked me that it went through! Then I went back to the pipe in the wall and wondered why it wouldn’t go through it. Well, closer inspection of the pipe showed that there was an ever so slim layer of solder barely visible and that was enough to prevent the adapter from sliding through completely. 

 

Fortunately, the pipe extending from the wall was exactly 3.5” and according the installation instructions, that was the max length. This meant that I didn’t have to cut the pipe. I was relieved. 

 

I marked the spot on the spout pipe and then applied flux to the appropriate places. Then inserted the adapter and lit the torch. 

 

It took me three tries. The first two times was frustrating because I didn’t know why the solder was not flowing in but instead just getting soft when touching the pipe and then breaking off. To make a long story short, I realized it simply was not hot enough. The third time is the charm.  It was cool watching the solder melting fully and get sucked in, as if it were magic. 

 

I managed to save $$ on a plumber in exchange for learning a new skill. It might be more accurate to say I diverted that money to feeding the tool monkey vs. saving $$, lol. 

 

 

[12poundbass]

4 hours ago, islandbass said:

 

I managed to save $$ on a plumber

You have received the bills from us yet! 

 

Glad to see it worked out and now you have a new skill. I loved soldering when I did plumbing. 

[islandbass]

Checks are in the mail ?