How to repair this

[Mbirdsley]

So I did something stupid and busted maybe 2 inches off the top of my 7 ft dobyns colt rod.  I think I can save it by putting a new tip top on it. It’s just going to go from a 7ft m/l to a 6’9 medium   What do I do about the line guide right below the break? Lesson learned.  Any other thoughts of wisdom? 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Looks like more than two inches, but at any rate, if you re-tip it the action will slow and the lure weight needed to cast will go way up. It’ll be useless for anything I want a rod to do but you’ll have to make that call. 

[Mbirdsley]

Actually, dobyns will replace if it’s my fault for thirty bucks. I was just looking at the warranty section.  That’s a good deal.  

[MickD]

If you're not going warranty this can be repaired by doing an external sleeve, preferably from a scrap glass rod piece.

 

https://www.rodbuilding.org/library/repair-oquinn.html

 

Follow the directions-don't add an internal sleeve, just the external sleeve.  Rods fixed in this way are very close to the action/power that they were before repair.

 

Just replacing the tiptop, as mentioned above, is not an acceptable option.  You will not like the results.

[Mbirdsley]

2 hours ago, MickD said:

If you're not going warranty this can be repaired by doing an external sleeve, preferably from a scrap glass rod piece.

 

https://www.rodbuilding.org/library/repair-oquinn.html

 

Follow the directions-don't add an internal sleeve, just the external sleeve.  Rods fixed in this way are very close to the action/power that they were before repair.

 

Just replacing the tiptop, as mentioned above, is not an acceptable option.  You will not like the results.

I’m going warranty the rod but, what you have said will be good to know for the future 

[spoonplugger1]

After you get your replacement, send them the pic again and mention what a crap job their finishers do. My 11 year old grandson just finished his first rod, it was worlds better than that collection of football wraps.

[GeekOutdoors]

On 5/11/2019 at 10:47 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Looks like more than two inches, but at any rate, if you re-tip it the action will slow and the lure weight needed to cast will go way up. It’ll be useless for anything I want a rod to do but you’ll have to make that call. 

I always thought it would be the opposite with action ?

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Nope. That misconception comes from confusing action with stiffness. Trimming a blank from either end results in a slower action. 

[Heartland]

On 5/13/2019 at 10:31 AM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Nope. That misconception comes from confusing action with stiffness. Trimming a blank from either end results in a slower action. 

Can you explain how trimming length from the butt end would change a rod's action to one that is slower?  By slower I mean from a moderate fast to a moderate.  I also assumed that trimming from the tip down would cause an increase in the action of a rod based on you would be moving closer to the transition from action to power.  Can you please add to your thoughts.

[Mbirdsley]

So today I finally received my replacement rod in the mail.  It was waiting for me when I got home from work.  I sent 6 inches of rod, TW recipe, and 50 bucks the Friday before Memorial Day.3-4 weeks go by and  I called dobyns on Monday to see where the rod was at. They said they had processed the exchange weeks ago and they forgot to send it out.  To thier credit they sent it out Tuesday and it arrived today.  

 

In essence I only saved 30-40 bucks. probably would have been less hassle to just buy a brand new one or not break the rod in the first place. I had to go to post office to get money order and padded envelope, saw off 6 inches of rod, TW was quick with emailing me a recipt, and Than make another trip to the post office.  Or not snap the tip off in the first place.  Lessons learned  

[Ratherbfishing]

5 minutes ago, Mbirdsley said:

...probably would have been less hassle to just not break the rod in the first place. ...Or not snap the tip off in the first place.  

I want to live in that place where nothing bad ever happens.

 

Came very close to breaking off a rod tip yesterday when a crankbait on a spare rod grabbed some flooded timber as I attempted to navigate through it (just as the trolling motor ALSO fouled on some weeds and I was suddenly at the mercy of the wind).  Life's a beach and you get sand in your shorts.

[MickD]

On 5/14/2019 at 2:22 PM, Heartland said:

Can you explain how trimming length from the butt end would change a rod's action to one that is slower?

Trimming from either end results in a slower action.  If you want to verify this, build yourself a setup that allows you to do the objective measurement process described by CCS, Common Cents System.  http://www.common-cents.info/

 

The setup described in the literature requires a 4 x 8 sheet of pegboard, but you can do it in a much more compact way if you have a 1. vice + 2. a relatively level floor.  It is a great system that takes the guess work out of comparing rods and blanks.  Meaning that if you have a rod you love, but it's no longer available, you can test other rods to find one with the same or similar numbers, and it will feel and act very closely to the original target rod.  If anyone wants to see my setup I'll send details.  It correlates quite well with the rod makers numbers.

 

I cannot explain the physics of why it slows the action , but it does.   Obviously, trimming the tip slows the action.  And trimming the butt without moving the reel seat will not result in any change in feel, but you won't have the butt length that the original rod had.  If you move the reel seat forward to retain the original length behind the seat, the rod will be slower in action by the CCS numbers, and feel slower in action.

[fishwizzard]

On 6/21/2019 at 5:51 PM, MickD said:

And trimming the butt without moving the reel seat will not result in any change in feel, but you won't have the butt length that the original rod had.  If you move the reel seat forward to retain the original length behind the seat, the rod will be slower in action by the CCS numbers, and feel slower in action.

Ah, this is the part that never clicked for me.  I am a fan of short butts and have always held off shortening any of my rods because I kept reading that it would affect the action but I could never understand how.  

[spoonplugger1]

It's simple math, if you start with a 7 ft. rod and the lockup happens at 20% of rod length than you shorten the butt, the lockup point doesn't change, but the length did,  it moved from 16.8 inches for 84 inches to 16.8 inches for 81 inches or 20.74%. Hence slower, it will also be a bit weaker powered in the butt. Same from tip, the stiffer tip moves lockup down the blank, the tip will not throw the light lures it did before, and the butt power will not change.

[MickD]

I need "lock-up" to be defined.  And where does the 20% come from? I'm just trying to understand.  thanks

 

Also, "it moved. . . "  What is the "it" that moved?  Can't be length, sounds like it's the "lock up" point since 16.8 is 20% of 84, the original length of the rod.  But you just said the lock up point hasn't moved.

[MickD]

This discussion is very interesting.  Objective numbers for rod action and power can easily be measured by the CCS process, but this process measures the reactions of the rod/blank using the whole length.  From the tip of the tip to the tip of the butt.  BUT, that's not how rods are often used.  They are used from the GRIP  to the tip when one-handed casting or fighting the fish.   And from the tip to the tip when two handed casting. The position  of the grip does not enter the CCS process either for blanks or rods.  This has been a  point of confusion for me for years.  Still working on it.

 

In CCS the rod/blank is supported at the tip of the butt and at 10% of its length up the rod/blank.  So a 9 foot rod has its second support point up from the tip of the butt 10.8 inches.  A 7 foot rod has its second support point at 8.4 inches up from the butt.  From my testing whether that second support point is at exactly 10% or not is not significant.  For a long time my rig supported all lengths at 10.8.  And I still correlated with manufacturer data quite well.  i've since added a support point to be used for shorter blanks at 8.4 inches, but the difference between the numbers using the different lengths is within other test error and cannot be found.  What does this mean?  It means the characteristics of the upper part of the blank have a lot more to do with how a rod performs/feels than the characteristics at the butt.

 

Which is probably why i've never liked a rod that has lost length at the tip top.  Even a couple inches.

 

Bottom line for me is that CCS accurately describes how a rod will feel and perform.  If you like a high modulus graphite rod from St Croix, and if you can get a high modulus graphite rod from Kistler with the same CCS numbers and similar guides, you will conclude that the rods perform very similarly.  If you like one you will like the other.

 

For those not familiar with CCS go to this site.  It is applicable for all types of rods although it started with fly rods.

http://www.common-cents.info/

 

Still learning.