Invasive species effect on LMB?

[gnappi]

While, the "do not kill" and "kill em all" camps will argue the point, and researchers sit in air conditioned offices collecting data (gleaned from where?) fishermen have to deal with the fallout of invasive species.

 

I'm 67 and have fished for trout and LMB (upstate New York) till I was 25, and have fished south Florida since the mid 70's so I have a fair amount of fish I have caught to see trends over the years. I do not record length vs. girth, or weights so at best my observations are visual and anecdotal, but here they are...

 

Small lakes and ponds isolated from large drainage systems

 

In some of these waterways that I fish, I have never seen a snakehead. 

 

The average LMB of 1-2 pounds seem generally normal in proportion, larger specimens over 3 pounds or so are fatter, head size is good, length is also good and girth is growing to what I'd expect to see in larger fish

 

Small lakes and ponds directly connected to large drainage systems

 

I catch snakeheads readily in these waters, and while scarce smaller LMB appear the same as smaller LMB in isolated waterways, larger fish of say 3-5 pounds are invariably thinner, almost anemic looking I'd say proportionally they look more like a longer version of a 1 pound specimen. 

 

Necropsy on snakeheads shows a fair number of species, but NO baby snakeheads. Unfortunately since I do not take LMB I cannot see what they are eating.

As further anecdotal evidence I can say that areas I know of where snakeheads are relentlessly pursued by fishermen like myself and bow hunters, LMB of 1 pound and up are becoming more evident than in past years before the snakeheads had pressure on them.  

 

I truly wish there were research being done in this area, but till then, I take every snakehead I can, though ugly they make GR8 table fare.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WRB]

Florida and New York Black bass species are native in California all Black bass species are non-native including Stripe bass. We have constant pressure to include Black bass and Stripe bass invasive species to be eradicated. Count your blessings.

Tom

 

[IgotWood]

Here in VA, the bass population rely on snakeheads as prey. The snakeheads spawn right after the bass. So as the bass are coming off the spawn and looking to fatten up,  the snakehead fry are beginning to show up. Those juvenile snakehead offer a stable food source for the bass right up into the winter.

 

I wasn’t here when the snakeheads began to take hold, but I’ve heard that the bass populations were a little unstable for a few years, but they have since leveled off, and are flourishing now. Snakeheads are a blast! There is nothing like them! I wish wouldn’t be upset if they made there way into every other body of water throughout the country. 

 

 

[Bluebasser86]

No snakeheads here but the smallmouth have really benefited from the zebra mussels in our lakes where they now co-exist. The numbers and size of fish have exploded. 

 

By all accounts, snakeheads are aggressive, hard fighters, and take up a niche that was currently mostly unfilled. I don't want to see them spread, but they sound like a fun problem to have. 

[Hower08]

I'll chime in on this. We have zebra mussels here in Ohio. One lake I thought was going to stay nice and stained and not get them in it. I go there yesterday and BAM clear as can be. Instantly see the zebras everywhere you can see bottom and on every piece of weeds or a stick you reel In. What I thought was a lake that was going to be spared is looking like it will be the worst one around here. 

 

I caught absolutely zero bass in the typical spots I catch them in Everytime I fish this lake. Smallies benefit from them no doubt. Largemouth I'm not so convinced. 

[Team9nine]

All the early studies I’ve read 5-10 years post snakehead introduction on the Potomac has shown little if any noticeable difference in the bass population. Modeling did suggest a dip of 30-35% in bass populations if snakehead continued to expand, but I haven’t pulled the most recent studies to see if that ever transpired. Bottom line - the end result has been nowhere near the doom and gloom portrayed by major bass fishing organizations when they were first discovered.

[Junger]

8 hours ago, gnappi said:

As further anecdotal evidence I can say that areas I know of where snakeheads are relentlessly pursued by fishermen like myself and bow hunters, LMB of 1 pound and up are becoming more evident than in past years before the snakeheads had pressure on them.  

 

I truly wish there were research being done in this area, but till then, I take every snakehead I can, though ugly they make GR8 table fare.

 

VA has been doing significant amounts of data collection, for 15+ years now. As you said, you only have anecdotal observations. Blue catfish are more destructive in the Potomac river tributary, yet they don't have the same stigma. You are well within your right to kill them as you see fit. In the river tributaries that I fish that have snakeheads, I catch way more LMB, with the average being 3lbs+, very very healthy ones. So my anecdotal observations are the opposite of yours.

 

If you are really interested in some facts and data, here are the 2018 Snakehead Symposium videos:

 

https://units.fisheries.org/va/snakehead-symposium-talks/

 

Short video of Snakehead summary: 

 

 

 

[Choporoz]

10 hours ago, gnappi said:

While, the "do not kill" and "kill em all" camps will argue the point, and researchers sit in air conditioned offices collecting data (gleaned from where?) fishermen have to deal with the fallout of invasive species.

 

I'm 67 and have fished for trout and LMB (upstate New York) till I was 25, and have fished south Florida since the mid 70's so I have a fair amount of fish I have caught to see trends over the years. I do not record length vs. girth, or weights so at best my observations are visual and anecdotal, but here they are...

 

Small lakes and ponds isolated from large drainage systems

 

In some of these waterways that I fish, I have never seen a snakehead. 

 

The average LMB of 1-2 pounds seem generally normal in proportion, larger specimens over 3 pounds or so are fatter, head size is good, length is also good and girth is growing to what I'd expect to see in larger fish

 

Small lakes and ponds directly connected to large drainage systems

 

I catch snakeheads readily in these waters, and while scarce smaller LMB appear the same as smaller LMB in isolated waterways, larger fish of say 3-5 pounds are invariably thinner, almost anemic looking I'd say proportionally they look more like a longer version of a 1 pound specimen. 

 

Necropsy on snakeheads shows a fair number of species, but NO baby snakeheads. Unfortunately since I do not take LMB I cannot see what they are eating.

As further anecdotal evidence I can say that areas I know of where snakeheads are relentlessly pursued by fishermen like myself and bow hunters, LMB of 1 pound and up are becoming more evident than in past years before the snakeheads had pressure on them.  

 

I truly wish there were research being done in this area, but till then, I take every snakehead I can, though ugly they make GR8 table fare.

 

It sure is a good thing that snakehead is the solitary change to the LMB environs in 40+ years down there.  Otherwise it sure would be hard to make direct correlation conclusions based on the LMB that you have caught.  

 

I agree with the posters above, since I fish the Potomac.  I wouldn't begin to suggest that any balance achieved here would be replicated anywhere else.  However, it is clear that the dire 'expert' predictions a decade ago were way off.   

[TnRiver46]

3 hours ago, Team9nine said:

All the early studies I’ve read 5-10 years post snakehead introduction on the Potomac has shown little if any noticeable difference in the bass population. Modeling did suggest a dip of 30-35% in bass populations if snakehead continued to expand, but I haven’t pulled the most recent studies to see if that ever transpired. Bottom line - the end result has been nowhere near the doom and gloom portrayed by major bass fishing organizations when they were first discovered.

Sounds like the same bottom line associated with 99 percent of exotic species, not just bass fishing specific

[WRB]

We don't have snakeheads and only a few lakes contaminated by quagga mussels a cousin to zebra mussels. The quagga mussel invaded the Colorado River system lakes Meade, Mojave and Havasu and spread viia the water supply system to isolated lakes feed by the American canal system and boats. Other then increasing water supply maintenance costs the mussels haven't had a negative impact on bass fishing. Red Ear sunfish (She'll Crackers) eat quagga mussels and grow to record size* on the Colorado River lakes and smallmouth benefit. 

The biggest problem for me and other bass anglers is the travel restrictions imposed on boating to local lakes. You can't randomly take your boat to another lake without clean & dry inspection and a quarantine period, up to 35 days for some lakes. A few lakes share inspection like Castaic and Pyramid for example, most don't resulting in being locked onto 1 lake. Lakes that have quagga mussel infestation don't have any boating travel restrictions. Lower boat use on lakes without mussels results in better bass fishing, lakes with quagga mussels results in clean clear water with improved smallmouth fishing.

Tom 

* 5.78 lbs from Havasu.

[BassinCNY]

The diet of the bass in the local lakes and rivers I fish the most has changed significantly in the last 5 years with the introduction of round gobies. Especially young smallmouth. It seems to be for the better but time will tell.

[Jleebesaw]

43 minutes ago, BassinCNY said:

The diet of the bass in the local lakes and rivers I fish the most has changed significantly in the last 5 years with the introduction of round gobies. Especially young smallmouth. It seems to be for the better but time will tell.

In in new york too, up in St lawrence county. Gobies have helped the small mouths and walleye get big in the st lawrence river. They seem to be helped more than hurt by this invasive species. Also, the zebra mussels have been a help too. I'm no scientist, and i do like the idea of no critters from other places getting in our water, but the general consensus is that they haven't really done any harm.

[soflabasser]

Glad to see there are many educated members that are not biased and fall for the witch hunt against snakeheads and other exotic fish. The vast majority of studies have shown that snakeheads do not have the negative impact on bass populations as erroneously thought in the past. I grew up in South Florida and can tell you from personal experience that bass populations are healthy in the places I fish for snakehead. Average size bass I catch in snakehead waters is 1-4 pounds, and I have caught several bass over 5 pounds, which is a respectable size bass in any body of water. 

8 hours ago, Team9nine said:

All the early studies I’ve read 5-10 years post snakehead introduction on the Potomac has shown little if any noticeable difference in the bass population. Modeling did suggest a dip of 30-35% in bass populations if snakehead continued to expand, but I haven’t pulled the most recent studies to see if that ever transpired. Bottom line - the end result has been nowhere near the doom and gloom portrayed by major bass fishing organizations when they were first discovered.

Same can be said for the South Florida population of bullseye snakehead.

[gim]

Here in Minnesota, the war on all kinds of invasive species rages on. Some lake associations and local county offices have even gone as far as privatizing several area lakes and restricting access unless your watercraft has been verified ahead of time. Zebra mussels have gotten into a lot of lakes here and cleared up the water. Since this is more walleye country than anything, it has not helped them because walleyes do better in dark, turbid waters. What it has helped is smallmouth bass though. I think it has also contributed to an over population of pike here too.

[Coldbasser]

A.I.S. Here in Manitoba has the S**t hitting the proverbial fan.

i have no issues with doing my part. The aquatic birds, ducks geese, & seagulls to name a few are can't be decontaminated and spread the Zebra mussels young that are the size of a grain of sand. I hate to be negative but the horses are out of the barn & galloping full speed ahead. Only time will show how this will play out.

Cheers

Rick

[Logan S]

Been fishing the Potomac since before the snakeheads were introduced...It's pretty easy to say the doom and gloom originally predicted didn't come to pass though, since they were literally talking about cats and small dogs being attacked by snakeheads that crawled out of the water to terrorize innocent people and pets.  They even mad a bad sci-fi channel movie about it ?.  

 

The Potomac is a tidal fishery that get influxes of predator and prey species from the Bay/Ocean pretty frequently, I've caught many saltwater species and seen many saltwater bait fish while bass fishing...It's different every year depending on the fresh/salt lines and how much rain we get (and where you fish, there's over 60 miles of 'bass water' on the tidal Potomac).  So its a system that's sort of used new species coming in and out can probably handle an invasive species much better than a smaller body of water.  I don't think the snakehead have had a huge effect on bass fishing one way or the other, yet.  It feels like a long time, but in reality it's still pretty early to say whether or not the ecosystem is truly being effected long-term (IMO anyway). 

 

The peaks and valleys in bass fishing on the Potomac are nearly an identical match to the peaks and valleys in grass growth on the river.  More grass = more bass.   Snakeheads or not, its the grass that determines the fate of bass fishing on the river.

 

The 'problem' with snakeheads is not in the Potomac...It's in the people transporting them illegally to pretty much every body of water in the region.  There seems to be a group of people hell-bent on putting them in every body of water they can find in this area.  Just because snakeheads haven't had an impact on the Potomac doesn't mean they wont have an impact elsewhere.  Eventually they might succeed in wrecking a fishery if dumped into the right one.

 

Just for fun...

 

[CountryboyinDC]

On 5/9/2019 at 10:26 PM, Logan S said:

Been fishing the Potomac since before the snakeheads were introduced...It's pretty easy to say the doom and gloom originally predicted didn't come to pass though, since they were literally talking about cats and small dogs being attacked by snakeheads that crawled out of the water to terrorize innocent people and pets.  They even mad a bad sci-fi channel movie about it ?.  

 

The Potomac is a tidal fishery that get influxes of predator and prey species from the Bay/Ocean pretty frequently, I've caught many saltwater species and seen many saltwater bait fish while bass fishing...It's different every year depending on the fresh/salt lines and how much rain we get (and where you fish, there's over 60 miles of 'bass water' on the tidal Potomac).  So its a system that's sort of used new species coming in and out can probably handle an invasive species much better than a smaller body of water.  I don't think the snakehead have had a huge effect on bass fishing one way or the other, yet.  It feels like a long time, but in reality it's still pretty early to say whether or not the ecosystem is truly being effected long-term (IMO anyway). 

 

The peaks and valleys in bass fishing on the Potomac are nearly an identical match to the peaks and valleys in grass growth on the river.  More grass = more bass.   Snakeheads or not, its the grass that determines the fate of bass fishing on the river.

 

The 'problem' with snakeheads is not in the Potomac...It's in the people transporting them illegally to pretty much every body of water in the region.  There seems to be a group of people hell-bent on putting them in every body of water they can find in this area.  Just because snakeheads haven't had an impact on the Potomac doesn't mean they wont have an impact elsewhere.  Eventually they might succeed in wrecking a fishery if dumped into the right one.

 

Just for fun...

 

After that trailer, I'm scared to death to take my kayak on the Occoquan.

[IgotWood]

Many freshwater species were “invasive” in the US at one point. The ecosystem usually balances itself out over time. Brown trout and rainbow trout are not native here. Peacock bass are invasive but everyone loves the catch them. Tiger muskies are enormous meat eaters, but we’re happy to have them in many of our waterways. 

 

Snakeheads are are relatively new to us. We didn’t really see them 20 years ago, so I can understand some of the concerns. But the reality is that the ecosystems where they are found are actually doing quite well. So, embrace them, because they aren’t going anywhere! 

[YoTone]

I catch snake heads. In my area there are many to be caught. They are here to stay no matter anyone can do. Am I worried about the effects of them relating to the bass population? Yes I do. Most of my friends that catch them advocate for catch and release saying they don't do harm to the population of bass. I take their words with a grain of salt because they don't really know what's gong to Happen 25 years down the line and They just love catching them. I don't blame them. The bass fishing here in my area is what it is, which is not Good. Catching a 8+ lbs snake head is one of the few chances of me knowing how a trophy bass fights like. I'm glad they are here but I do worry about them taking over but what is done is done and there is no going back.

[soflabasser]

On 5/13/2019 at 6:00 AM, IgotWood said:

Many freshwater species were “invasive” in the US at one point. The ecosystem usually balances itself out over time. Brown trout and rainbow trout are not native here. Peacock bass are invasive but everyone loves the catch them. Tiger muskies are enormous meat eaters, but we’re happy to have them in many of our waterways. 

 

Snakeheads are are relatively new to us. We didn’t really see them 20 years ago, so I can understand some of the concerns. But the reality is that the ecosystems where they are found are actually doing quite well. So, embrace them, because they aren’t going anywhere! 

Rainbow trout are native to the NorthWestern USA/some parts of Northern Asia and brown trout are native to Europe. Both rainbow and brown trout are on the top 100 list of most invasive species of the world. Snakeheads are not even on that list which goes to show you that rainbow trout and brown trout are more damaging to places there are not native to, yet very few people talk about how invasive trout are. Common carp are another species of fish on that list and many people like fishing for them in the USA. Peacock bass are native to South America and where deliberately introduced by Florida's DNR so they can eat various ''invasive'' fish. Those same ''invasive'' fish are still here and thriving along with dozens of species of freshwater fish, including big largemouth bass which are very common in South Florida. These exotic fish are here to stay and the best thing to do is learn how to appreciate these exotics since many people pay thousands of dollars to travel to South Florida to catch these fish. 

[hawgenvy]

I have seen an explosion of blue tilapia in south Florida in the past few years. They are on average 1 or 2 pounds in size, with some quite larger. Blue tilapia are considered herbivorous, though I have caught several of them while bass fishing with moving soft plastic lures. I cannot discern whether their motivation was nutritional or defensive. They create large, round, very clean beds for spawning and hide eggs and fry in their mouths to protect them. I don't know to what degree, if any, they prey on bass eggs or fry.

 

I am reasonably certain that bass consume small and intermediate size blue tilapia in south Florida, and anecdotally it appears that bass are bigger in lakes and ponds with abundant tilapia. The overall effect seems to be enhancement of the bass population, though I have no knowledge what might be the overall ecological impact of tilapia. If any readers have additional information about the effects of tilapia, or about whether they have been introduced accidentally or deliberately, or whether they are now being introduced for plant and algae control, I'd like to hear from you on these pages.

 

 

[StretcherJockey]

Can’t speak for other parts of the country but Kentucky Lake is struggling big time with the Asian Carp invasion. Doesn’t help that their invasion seems to be coinciding with a natural downturn in the lake that every lake has from time to time. Along with a poor year for the shad in 2017-18. I’ve come across very few 3-5lb LMB in the past year or so. Measures are being taken to fight them but man it looks pretty bleak from my perspective. 

[hawgenvy]

Some interesting info on tilapia stocking in ponds to enhance the bass fishery and to control filamentous algae:

 

http://sepond.com/fish-stocking/tilapia

 

https://www.solitudelakemanagement.com/blog/should-stock-tilapia-this-summer 

[ww2farmer]

I'm no biologist, but here's my .02 from my years of exp. on my home lake.

 

Invasives that have had a POSITIVE impact:

 

Eurasian Milfoil: Largemouth LOVE this stuff. Unfortunately, it's been naturally in decline the past 5-6 years. The decline of the milfoil has given native plants like coontail, elodea, and eelgrass the chance to come back and often flourish. Bass are seemingly readjusting and using the "new" native plants the way they used the milfoil. Savvy anglers have adapted, and are still catching fish, myself included. But I'd be lying if I didn't say I yearned for the day of miles of thick milfoil to flip and pitch. There's still plenty of milfoil, but it's not like it was.

 

Zebra mussels: They have done a great job clearing the water and allowing BOTH largemouth and smallmouth to thrive. Before the mussels came, largemouth fishing was good, and smallmouth fishing was pretty bad. With the mussels, both are excellent.

 

Invasives that have a neutral impact: (I.E. I'm not sure if they are good are bad, but don't seem to be doing anything either way)

 

Curly Leaf Pond Weed: It looks great...I rarely catch quality fish out of it, but since it's showed up it's ALWAYS been the first grass to top out in the spring, and then fades quickly as the water gets into the upper 60's. That's probably why I don't catch much in it. The fish are shallow and not in it heavy during its peak. Since it's showed up, the native grasses have thrived in the summer, and milfoil has gone backwards....I'm not sure how I feel about that.

 

Rudd: They are an orange and green carpish looking fish. They seem to always be around bass holding areas. I'm sure the young ones provide forage for bass. They really don't seem to hurt anything, but I also don't know if they provide a benefit either.

 

Invasives that ARE hurting things:

 

#1 by a long shot is RICH PEOPLE FROM OUT OF TOWN....they move to the lake, and think they own it. They litter the bottom with tarp weed mats, yell at people for fishing around "their property", drive their boats like morons, and generally are to be avoided.

[clark9312]

On 5/27/2019 at 12:41 PM, StretcherJockey said:

Can’t speak for other parts of the country but Kentucky Lake is struggling big time with the Asian Carp invasion. Doesn’t help that their invasion seems to be coinciding with a natural downturn in the lake that every lake has from time to time. Along with a poor year for the shad in 2017-18. I’ve come across very few 3-5lb LMB in the past year or so. Measures are being taken to fight them but man it looks pretty bleak from my perspective. 

I know a lot of guys that couldn’t wait to get to Kentucky Lake every year. Those same guys are now going to guntersville for their yearly trip because of how bad the situation is at ky lake. I’ve been following it and it’s not looking good.