Bass Rod Manufacturing Process & Consistency...???

[ITO_ZILLION]

Are bass rods supposed to be 'consistent' in action, flex and power when it comes to 'identical' rods of the same model/line...?

 

I know a little bit about how bass rods are made but I was curious as to if manufacturers are (in theory) supposed to make the rods as consistent as possible from one one rod to the next when making a specific model for that year/season. For example...say we are talking about a Phenix Bass Recon Elite 7'1 Medium Heavy Fast. In theory...Should 'all' Phenix Bass Recon Elite 7'1 Medium Heavy Fast rods made for that year/season supposed to feel the same no matter where or who you buy it from...?

 

I know that there are many variables in the manufacturing process for a bass rod so I am inclined to believe that the rods are not supposed to be that 'precise/consistent' throughout the manufacturing process when it comes to identical rods of the same model/line...right...? Therefore...is it common to feel some differences and discrepancies in identical rods of the same model/line...?

 

As an analogy...Everyone knows that not all wood is the 'same' and therefore you will have some differences and discrepancies and have to be cognizant of consistency in what you are buying. Is it the same with bass rods...? In other words...Does Joe Shmoe from California have the same exact feeling 7' heavy fast Powell Max rod as John Smith from Florida...? 

[MickD]

15 minutes ago, ITO_ZILLION said:

curious as to if manufacturers are (in theory) supposed to make the rods as consistent as possible from one one rod to the next when making a specific model for that year/season.

Of course they are, and they do.  Not only for that season, but for as many seasons as they offer that model.  If you take a St Croix SCV 7 foot medium power fast action rod from 10 years ago it will feel very much like one made this year.  I have made rods out of this particular model blank for about that long for me and family members, and they are so close to each other in feel that they are essentially identical.  Additionally, the CCS power/action numbers are within a few percentage points from blank to blank.  I have experience with a few other blank models that indicate that St Croix is not the only manufacturer with this capability.

 

The only reason that rods made from the same blank model will feel different from each other is if the rods were built with different guide trains and/or grip configurations.

[TOXIC]

I would hope so but I'm sure it depends on the consistency in the blanks, all other things being equal.  Now the same action/power between different manufacturers is a whole different beast and I've seen pretty big differences.  

[MickD]

The original question concerned blank consistency between blanks of the same model and manufacturer,  and they are very consistent from all manufacturers that I'm familiar with.

 

When considering blanks between different manufacturers one has to consider that the terms describing them are subjective, not objective unless one has the CCS data on the blanks.  If the CCS data are the same, then the blanks will feel somewhat alike for power and action, but unless the frequency data (which is a lot harder to measure) is known, the blanks can feel different due to weight and frequency differences that come with different materials.  Sensitivity can be different on blanks with exactly the same power and action numbers.  Higher sensitivity is what one usually is paying for in premium blanks.

 

Since the action, power, line weight, and lure weight descriptions are subjective then it is possible for a LOT of variation between manufacturers.  St. Croix, for example, usually provides blanks with more power than their description would indicate vs most other manufacturers.  For example, their med light power is often about the same as others' med power.

 

CCS power and action numbers are pretty easy to measure if one wants to do it.  http://www.common-cents.info/

 

The rig shown in the site above takes up a lot of space, but it is possible to make a rig that takes up a lot less space.

[The Maestro]

Funny you should mention this. I was curious about the same thing and measured 2 of the same rod (Cumaras) at the same place on each rod with high end calipers capable of measuring 0.001" (one thousandth of an inch) and was blown away that they were practically identical down to the thousandth of an inch.

[Vilas15]

Yes they should be the same. If a company has absolutely zero QA/QC and every product is different then i sure wouldn't buy anything from them. I shouldn't have to test out multiple rods of the same model in the store to find the one I like.

[MAN]

Yes as long as they are using the same mandrels and prepreg cuts/positioning during the wrap process. If there is any part of the process that can cause a slight difference its going to be the guy doing the positioning of the template cuts.   

[CrankFate]

The rods can be very different from one to the next. They are often easily 1/2” or more off in height. The action of two of the exact same rods is not usually exactly the same. Because of this, I recommend that no matter what rod you get buy it in the store if possible. From a big store like BPS, which has a real return policy. A lot of them will be visibly more likely to break. I say that, but my last two rods were mail orders from the maker site unseen. 

[MickD]

How do you know they are different?  Unless you are using objective measurements like CCS, you are just guessing.  You mention length.  That can be measured, and you did, and found a difference.  What did you do to measure power and action?  

 

I don't deal in rods; I deal  in blanks, and build them into rods.  And I assure you that blanks of the same model from a single manufacturer do not vary significantly.  If rod manufacturers are mixing different blanks into their rod builds, I don't know about that.

[MAN]

A simple pegboard can help you to find any variance 

[LCG]

I would think it is highly dependent on the manufacturer and the old saying you get what you pay for probably holds true. 

 

Whether there is any real world effect on small variances is argumentative at best I imagine. 

[CrankFate]

On 5/8/2019 at 6:22 PM, MickD said:

How do you know they are different?  Unless you are using objective measurements like CCS, you are just guessing.  You mention length.  That can be measured, and you did, and found a difference.  What did you do to measure power and action?  

 

I don't deal in rods; I deal  in blanks, and build them into rods.  And I assure you that blanks of the same model from a single manufacturer do not vary significantly.  If rod manufacturers are mixing different blanks into their rod builds, I don't know about that.

If you stand them next to each other you can easily see height differences. The other differences are harder to see, but you can feel them if you bend them.

[MickD]

5 hours ago, CrankFate said:

The other differences are harder to see, but you can feel them if you bend them.

But you have no objective data on action and power, right?  Just feel. 

 

If you are right then it is a phenom I've never encountered with any of the usual name blank makers, like Loomis, St. Croix, Rainshadow, Point Blank, American Tackle.

 

I'm curious as to how I'm going to be able to inspect and  buy a rod that is not "visibly more likely to break?"

[CrankFate]

St Croix rods are always very different from one rod to the next. More so than most other brands. But shimano is another where the rods are visibly different from one to the next. St. Croix rods usually have variations of up to an inch in length.

 

A lot of rods flex differently. That’s all I can say. Sometimes you can hear the sound of micro cracks in graphite rods from being crushed or impacted (these are vertical cracks). It’s different than the higher pitched clink sound when the horizontal rings or natural ridges bend for the first time.

 

Loomis rods are very often very consistent (even though I don’t have any, they are, but they’re just too stiff for me).

 

But the bottom line is—yes—if you bend several of the same types of rods you will notice lots of difference from one to the next.

 

I can say that by inspecting each rod very carefully, you can eliminate all breakages. I have never broken a rod fishing and I almost always fish rods several weight/power classes below what is required. I am careful with rods that I buy because I know I usually fish very under powered.

[Deleted account]

There are no two rods that are identical. That being said, the differences can vary from imperceptible to significant. Most quality production rods and nearly all custom rods are close enough to be considered functionally equal. I have seen some that are way off. Of course when there are changes in specs, production runs and the like, then sometimes one is looking at a completely different stick, where just the name is the same.