Reel diagnostic help

[FordsnFishin]

The reel is a : daiwa 1016 shl tw

 

I've been through the reel several times now and cannot for the life of me figure what is wrong with it. Yes, schematic is out and from what I can tell everything is in place. 

 

Problem: whenever you pull drag, by hand,  hook set, even trying to reel in a bait, the reel will jerk as if something is slipping and the handle will turn a 1/4 of an inch backwards (opposite of reeling in line.)  It appears to get worse the more you have the drag tightened down. 

 

Any thoughts,  suggestions,  would be greatly appreciated. Everything else on the reel appears to work fine. 

 

Thanks,  

 

Zachary

Removing the side plate with mag force braking system I can still mimic the results so I know it's on the gear side. 

[tholmes]

It sounds to me like your AR bearing is slipping. Try cleaning it thoroughly, and then lube it, using a cotton swab with one drop of oil, wiping lightly once around the inside. NO MORE OIL. Too much oil in this bearing can cause the problem that you have described.

Hope this helps!

 

Tom

 

 

[FordsnFishin]

1 minute ago, tholmes said:

It sounds to me like your AR bearing is slipping. Try cleaning it thoroughly, and then lube it, using a cotton swab with one drop of oil, wiping lightly once around the inside. NO MORE OIL. Too much oil in this bearing can cause the problem that you have described.

Hope this helps!

 

Tom

 

 

I'm sitting here with it broken apart and was trying to think of anything I might of missed and what could cause this. What you mentioned is exactly what i began to think as well.  

 

Normally i don't touch the ar bearing for this very reason.  But i wonder if over years this managed to collect too much oil.  

 

Thinking i might take it completely apart and clean every roller. 

 

Thanks

[FordsnFishin]

Thomas, just thoroughly cleaned ar bearing and put it all back together. Cannot get it to jump like it was doing. 

 

Just want to say thank you very much! 

 

 

[FordsnFishin]

Spoke to soon. 

 

Got to casting it around outside,  testing it for a minute.  Back to square one.  Still doing the same thing.  Appeared to have helped it as soon as I put it back together,  but no different now. 

 

Perhaps the whole AR bearing is shot? I have a similar reel that I'm think I might swap the bearings on and see if it cures the problem than I'd know

 

[FordsnFishin]

AR bearings swapped,  no dice.

 

Still upon pulling drag,  handle will jerk and gear will sound as if slipping or grinding. 

[OnthePotomac]

Way too much grease on your drags perhaps, or the sleeve on which your AR bearing fits is not seated properly on the key washer?

[FordsnFishin]

16 minutes ago, OnthePotomac said:

Way too much grease on your drags perhaps, or the sleeve on which your AR bearing fits is not seated properly on the key washer?

I use only a thin coat of cals drag grease. 

 

What do you mean by the key washer? The sleeve fits over the handle drive shaft, and sits inside the ar bearing. 

 

However,  I'm not positive of there is a proper orientation of the sleeve as the are differences if you flip it around. But from looking at it im not sure it would matter which way you put it. 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The tighter the drag the more pressure on the AR. If the handle is indeed moving backward the AR must be slipping. If the handle stays put check that the pinion is seated correctly and the spool pin is even and undamaged. 

[iabass8]

Take the AR out and the sleeve it encompasses. Clean them and blow them dry. Dont put a single drop of lube or anything on them. Reinstall and test. Make sure tou have the washer that sits between the sleeve and drag washer and more importantly the washer that sits between the drag clicker and bearing that sits ontop of the AR. The amount of parts that break on a 1016 is ridiculous. 

[FordsnFishin]

Thanks fellas about to get to work on it. 

[FordsnFishin]

Well,  made an extremely bad move. Live and learn.  An this is how I learn best.  By taking something apart and destroying it.  Hahaha.

 

Looking to get the ar bearing extremely clean,  I took it completely apart.  Ultra sonic cleaned the rollers,  clutch springs,  and outer race.

 

Just for anyone else that attempts this,  it's not for the faint of heart. I took time and precaution, and even so still managed to lose one of the tiny clutch springs. I somehow managed to get the first two in,  lost one,  bent one,  than decided it's not worth anymore time spent on this. 

 

So im in the market for a new ar bearing.  Part # 6g819801 roller clutch.  Bearing itself reads Nsk DF501018.

 

Google search didn't lead me to much. Wondering if daiwa even carries this clutch bearing anymore. Reckon I'll have to shoot them a call. 

22 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

The tighter the drag the more pressure on the AR. If the handle is indeed moving backward the AR must be slipping. If the handle stays put check that the pinion is seated correctly and the spool pin is even and undamaged. 

Pinion gear was correct. Spool pin had a slight bur from removing that I filed lightly. Pin was pretty even, did just the slightest adjustment. The handle did indeed move backwards, roughly 1/4 inch when the reel work jerk.

[FordsnFishin]

7 hours ago, iabass8 said:

Take the AR out and the sleeve it encompasses. Clean them and blow them dry. Dont put a single drop of lube or anything on them. Reinstall and test. Make sure tou have the washer that sits between the sleeve and drag washer and more importantly the washer that sits between the drag clicker and bearing that sits ontop of the AR. The amount of parts that break on a 1016 is ridiculous. 

Both spacing washers were in place. My 1016 has been a great reel. But has been used and abused. Cast like a dream up until this happening. 

[iabass8]

1 hour ago, FordsnFishin said:

Both spacing washers were in place. My 1016 has been a great reel. But has been used and abused. Cast like a dream up until this happening. 

AR clutch bearings are pretty universal. I'm traveling at the moment so hopefully DVT can chime in on the exacts or I would. I do know TT sells them and if you call Brian he could tell you which one you need specifically. Generally, handle slippage is almost always related to an AR bearing...mostly. Especially if you use a little too much lubricant + cold weather. If you fall short looking, I have 2-3 spares from old TD-Z's just laying around. 

2 hours ago, FordsnFishin said:

 

 

Looking to get the ar bearing extremely clean,  I took it completely apart.  Ultra sonic cleaned the rollers,  clutch springs,  and outer race.

 

 

Don't do that

[Stephen B]

9 minutes ago, iabass8 said:

AR clutch bearings are pretty universal. I'm traveling at the moment so hopefully DVT can chime in on the exacts or I would. I do know TT sells them and if you call Brian he could tell you which one you need specifically. Generally, handle slippage is almost always related to an AR bearing...mostly. Especially if you use a little too much lubricant + cold weather. If you fall short looking, I have 2-3 spares from old TD-Z's just laying around. 

Don't do that

Might as well go direct with Daiwa instead for the part. They have great customer service and sometimes will send parts for free. Another option is to find a compatible spare as Iabass suggested.

[FordsnFishin]

1 hour ago, iabass8 said:

 

Don't do that

Solid advice. Got it,  thanks.  Hahahaha

 

Probably give daiwa a shout and see what they have to offer.

 

Been tempted to start buying groups of broken reels on ebay for spare parts.  Seems alot of things are universal to a degree. Would be handy to have that spare spring, or washer that ends up on the garage floor never to be found. Wish the local hardware carried fishing reel parts. Hahaha