Baitcaster 101 +1

[CrankFate]

21 hours ago, A-Jay said:

In the earliest stages of learning to cast revolving spool gear - it is often very beneficial to set the reel up so that there is very little on the way of human intervention needed to prevent an overrun.  In other words, all you should need to do is hold the spool with your thumb, initiate the casting motion, and then release your thumb at the correct moment.  This will send the bait out some ways and then the reel will also stop it with out allowing the spool to 'over run'.

 This type of set up usually include sufficient braking to restrict the bait to fall AT ALL - EVEN IN FREE SPOOL.

   You will not achieve the greatest distance with this set up but you won't need scissors either.

 Practice this - get the feel of this, practice your timing so that you can also synchronize your thumb to stop the spool at the same time or even a split second before the reel does.

 Then, EVER SO SLOWLY AND USING THE SMALLEST INCREMENTS Possible, release some of the 'braking' and repeat the process.  In time you'll be a spool thumbing, distance casting fool.

But for now - baby steps.

 

 So with all that said - your reel is not set up appropriately - other wise you would not be making this post.

Good Luck

A-Jay

Once you frustrate yourself doing this to the point that you’d rather just risk the birds nest, you’ve almost got it,

[Glaucus]

I don't know how much this helps but when I first learned I used 12lb mono (good diameter but not too big to become unmanageable), a moderate fast action rod, I cranked the brakes up and tightened the spool to where I would have to give it a slight jiggle to make the bait fall, and I always always always did a smooth side arm cast using both hands and followed through like I was swinging a bat - but I did not cast hard! A smooth follow through. Casting distance will not be good but it built my mechanics and within the day I had the hang of it. Not entirely perfect of course but I slowly back off the brakes and tension over some time, experimented with different casting forms, and slowly increased how hard I "swung"

 

Definitely start slow and build up. Over time you won't need to even thumb the spool on an average cast.

[PhishLI]

Take a look at this video as it addresses some pieces of the puzzle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDXKEA9jlXQ

 

Pay close attention to Glenn's video where he's performing a gentle overhead cast. His arms, from the elbow to the shoulder, are kept pretty close to his body. I explain this to newbies to baitcasters as "T-Rexing" . Picture a T-rex  casting a fishing rod. This will limit the amount of energy you can produce while learning overhead casting which allows thumb coordination/memory to take hold. This is simply an exercise. A first step. This is not how you'll be casting over time unless you choose to! Once you get the feel of it, your casting strokes will open up and you'll be able to perform much more aggressive casts as seen in AJ's video. It's my opinion that you should start with your stiffest rod until you get your feet under you. This will limit sling-shotting which can cause you trouble in the beginning with overruns. Yes, you can chosoe a lure that will overload your stiffest rod and cause that too, just don't do it.

 

Anyway, it's baby steps. Starting out with a limited stroke will allow you to develop your thumb control. This will eventually lead you toward the feel of loading and unloading the rod according to lure weight and incorporating your follow through cast. In time, once you've developed the basics, the things you're forced to think about at first will become second nature. When I first started out I thought it would be impossible to do what I can do now: very aggressive overhead bomb casting when I need to. It just takes time and reps for it all to click. Take advantage of your skunked days to experiment. It'll all come together.

[Flatrock]

Great info gentlemen.. A big Thank You !!!

 

IslandBass...  You get me because you are correct, I've used open face spinning reels all my life.  Now compound that with a 25 yr absence of fishing and now trying to get back into it... I'm trying to retrain myself.  

 

I want to say I went and purchased a Lews Speed Spool 6.8:1 and a Alba Garcia Vendetta graphite med / Moderate  action 7' and  put 12# mono on it.  I just so happened to buy a couple 3/8 oz practice weights.  This reel responds so much differently then the Fishdrops or the Alba Garcia Revo... And I love the feel of the cast of the rod.  My first cast had a minor backlash with no magnet.  I adjusted it to 3 and I was casting with no problems, even overhead...  making sure I turned my wrist (feels funny) but its working...  I made better than 6 - 8 casts side and overhead with success.  I can feel my cast with this rod...  Does that make any sense ?

 

I immediately felt very comfortable with this new rig.   When I can, I will swap this new reel with my MH fast 6' 6" and MH extra fast 7' rods  and see how things go.  Once I determine if its rod or reel, I'll decide what to do after that.    

 

So with this said, practice I must...  I know I want to master the loop cast.

[Flatrock]

On 4/1/2019 at 7:16 AM, LionHeart said:

Usually if I am using a bait that is too light to load the rod properly, my cast will end up to the left of where I wanted it to go.  I know, I know, that can be all about release point but generally at least for me it's a good indicator.  Does this seem to be happening to you also?

Some time yes I go left as well...  my practice test was in the dark so I don't know how far I was casting but it was taking a little bit to retrieve so I think I'm on to something. I'll know better tomorrow when its light out.

[islandbass]

That is awesome!!! You are well one your way to improving your fishing experience because you now have more tools at your disposal. 

 

None of my friends fish. So when I took on learning the baitcaster, all I had was awesome advice given on forums as a guide. As good as the advice is and was, nothing can replace actual hands on experience. However, what do you do when you run into a problem you can’t yet figure out ?

Like, 1) why in the H-E-double hockey sticks is my lure slamming into the ground right in front me? 2) What in the... why does my overhand cast keep rainbowing?  3) Why does my sidearm cast keep going to the left instead of straight out?

1-3 are mostly timing issues

 

4) Why didn’t anyone tell me I should not have spooled 10# braid, lol. 

Understanding the limitations of reel and line type. Braid is thinner relative to its mono equivalent. And generally speaking, when you use braid of less than 30# strength, you increase the likelihood of encountering line dig. 

 

or that 5) I shouldn’t expect a baitcaster to throw 1/16oz lures, lol?

Another limitations. Baitcasters have a lower limit under which they will not fare well. This can vary from reel to reel, but going less than 3/16oz  can make things a bit more challenging. Line diameter and rod power are also factors. Some H rods might not even bend back with so light a weight and so you would be forced to manipulate your mechanics to compensate.  

 

 

To your question, yes. You can feel it on the cast.  You can now take that new found knowledge and apply to how you cast with your spinning gear. 

 

After you get this down, your next thing to learn is the pitch, or basically an underhanded cast. ? Incidentally, pitching can also be done with spinning gear. 

 

 

[Glaucus]

2 minutes ago, islandbass said:

That is awesome!!! You are well one your way to improving your fishing experience because you now have more tools at your disposal. 

 

None of my friends fish. So when I took on learning the baitcaster, all I had was awesome advice given on forums as a guide. As good as the advice is and was, nothing can replace actual hands on experience. However, what do you do when you run into a problem? Like, why in the H-E-double hockey sticks is my lure slamming into the ground right in front me? What in the... why does my overhand cast keep rainbowing?  Why does my sidearm cast keep going to the left instead of straight out? Why didn’t anyone tell me I should not have spooled 10# braid or that I shouldn’t expect a baitcaster to throw 1/16oz lures, lol?

 

After you get this down, your next thing to learn is the pitch, or basically an underhanded cast. ? 

 

 

And when you start pitching, you may find that you pitch more than you traditionally cast.

[islandbass]

 

10 minutes ago, Glaucus said:

And when you start pitching, you may find that you pitch more than you traditionally cast.

Indeed! 

[new2BC4bass]

I had a 23 year hiatus from fishing after moving to my current area.  Fishing sucks here.  Was strictly a spinning guy, but wanted to try baitcasting when I got back into fishing.  Had Internet access by then!  

 

Although I now have more spinning combos than I ever did before, they seldom see use as I love baitcasters.  I learned with the sidearm cast.  My timing was awful at first.  Probably landing 30 degrees to the left of my target.  Had I known to use a roll cast, my learning time would have been shortened, and my accuracy much better right from the get-go.

[Further North]

I'm going to toss fly fishing out as an example for the 2nd time today.

 

I didn't really understand rod loading until I started chucking big flies for bass, pike and muskies.

 

If you try to "throw: a 13" fly, you'll either hurt yourself, or wear your self down so fast your accuracy and distance will fall off a cliff.

 

You have to let the rod do the work.

 

Learning that lead me to reflect on what I was doing with casting and spinning gear, and I began the process of re-mapping my muscle memory to let the rods do the work there.

 

Loading the rod should have it flexing well down the shaft, with some exceptions (Flipping and pitching don't load the rod much, nor does drop shotting over the side of the boat, or vertical jigging...I'm sure there are other examples).

[Glaucus]

Roland Martin dropped a video on casting a few minutes ago

 

 

LOLOLOL I just noticed Roland has that chest exposed, showing off the gold chain. What a G.

[Flatrock]

Guys if you were watching me this morning, you would have thought I was pulling your leg.   This new outfit is PERFECT..!    I changed how I hold the rod .. holding with second finger with first finger along rod and reel and started taking command of the rod and making it work.  I was 75% accurate within 2-3 feet side armed and  I thought roll casting would be difficult but its easier than overhand casting.  I love roll casting, so much more control and accuracy over all.  I was consistently within 2 feet at 50' distance...   I did backlash 3 or 4 times but that was when I chunked it casting over head, but that was the only time I BL.. the rest of the time was wonderful.   45 mins of pure bliss and it didn't matter how hard I was throwing..  

 

My challenge is short distances..   20 feet.  Instead of flipping, could I just roll cast ?  LOL

 

I'm sure the reel has something to do with it, but I love the rod action too.   I want to take this Lews and put it on my other two rods and see how things go.  If I get the same response, the fishdrops is going in the trash and the Garcia...  I might get better results with the new M/M Garcia rod.

 

Guys thanks a bunch for all the advice ...I finally have found some direction.  Of course its one thing throwing a practice weight in your back yard we'll see with a lure on a boat rocking on the water..   I'll find out tomorrow if my new found confidence is premature or not. 

[Further North]

There's a world of difference between a bait casting roll cast and a fly fishing roll cast...

[Flatrock]

Well I got to try the new rig out on the lake and I was humbled BUT It was my screwup and I knew better... I tried to cast a 1/8oz jig   ?   Yes folks the worst birds nest I have ever seen period... my knots had knots.  I should have known better to tie 12# line on such a small lure and then trying to cast in the wind.   I think I ended up chopping like 30' of line off, but once I corrected things and went back to 3/8-1/2oz lures I was doing fine despite the winds.

 

Again I couldn't catch a break.. I wasn't on the water 30 mins when the wind started to whip up... after a couple hours there was white caps beginning to form so I took it home... I wanted to install a pr of retractable transom straps and repair the step/fender where the guy that owned the boat before me hit something with it...

[Heartland]

Someone help me out here, what is a "Magnetic Drag"?   That is just brutal.

 

[Flatrock]

17 hours ago, Heartland said:

Someone help me out here, what is a "Magnetic Drag"?   That is just brutal.

 

I do believe it that dial on the side of the reel... its what drags or puts resistance on the spool slowing it down..  

 

 

Am I right  ?   What's my prize

[new2BC4bass]

Sorry.  No prize.  The small cap on the side of the reel is spool tension.  The dial on the side of the reel is for setting the brakes.  The star under the handle is for setting the 'drag'.

 

The dial on the side (brakes) and the small cap (spool tension) are what slow the spool during a cast.  I've never heard either of these referred to as 'drag', but I guess technically they do put 'drag' on the spool.  However, not what we think of when we think of 'drag'.

[Flatrock]

3 minutes ago, new2BC4bass said:

Sorry.  No prize.  The small cap on the side of the reel is spool tension.  The dial on the side of the reel is for setting the brakes.  The star under the handle is for setting the 'drag'.

 

The dial on the side (brakes) and the small cap (spool tension) are what slow the spool during a cast.

But isn't the dial magnetic ?

[new2BC4bass]

Yes.

 

EDIT:  But as I added in an edit to my other post......not what we think of as drag.

EDIT2:  That dial is for Magnetic Brakes.

[Flatrock]

Ok... I was able to put some time in testing each reel to different rods and what I found was the Lews by far was the smoothest easiest to cast with a 90%+ cast to backlash ratio.  That mean 10% of the time it was just a bad cast all together, my error.  The rest of the time, didn't matter how hard I threw it, the reel was ready to go. It was smooth, couldn't really feel anything during a cast.

 

The Alba Garcia Revo was ok..  It was less forgiving and tend to back lash easier when I'm not doing a perfect cast.  The biggest thing I noticed was I could feel the line peeling off the spool or maybe it was the bearings, felt cheap compared to the Lews.

 

And finally the Fishdrops...  Could not control the spool, the more I dialed in the magnets the more it backlashed. However the spool was quiet and felt no vibration, never the less was inconsistent.

 

Anyone want a fishdrops reel ?

 

[Heartland]

3 hours ago, Flatrock said:

I do believe it that dial on the side of the reel... its what drags or puts resistance on the spool slowing it down..  

 

 

Am I right  ?   What's my prize

The dial on the palm side plate of the reel is for adjusting the magnetic braking(in general, some reels will also allow you to adjust the centrifugal braking from this dial as well).  If you remove the palm side plate and increase the number of "Pins" that are active, that is centrifugal braking.  The small cap on the handle side of the reel is the spool tension cap, it is generally not thought of as braking because it is a constant and not dynamic.    The drag star on the handle side of the reel is used to adjust spool drag, how much force is required to allow the spool slip and play out line while it is engaged.   Daiwa uses a hybrid version of centrifugal and magnetic braking known as "Magforce" simple adjustment from the palm side plate dial.  There are several other types of braking but these are generally thought to be the most common.   It is very important to understand the nomenclature, function and proper adjustment of each of these settings.   Otherwise you are going to waste a lot of line and lose a lot of fish.

The videos you watched both had good information, but the verbage/nomenclature needed some editing.

As for a prize  you get an "A" for effort.

[The Bassman]

11 hours ago, Flatrock said:

 

 

Anyone want a fishdrops reel ?

 

I'm in. Should work perfect with my Banjo Minnows.