Baitcaster 101 +1

[Flatrock]

This is rather long so please be patient..

 

I would really like to hear from someone knowledgeable in bait casters with the understanding that I'm new to baitcasters and for once understanding rod designs.  I haven't fished in since the early 90's and things have really changed in rod designs.  So now you have new technology and learning how to use a bait caster with some success but still fighting backlashes that shouldn't be happening. 

 

Then last night I was watching this utube video where this guy was teaching his son how to cast a baitcaster and he was talking about "Loading Up" the rod when casting...  He did talk a brief moment about rod type but not enough to understand.

 

Everyone talks about how to adjust the reel.. Everyone talks about rod action, but no one talks about best type of rod action in learning how to cast a baitcaster and how different action react in casting...

 

In my case, I have two BC's...  Both are Med Heavy.  One is fast action (6.5' with 10# florocarbon) and the other is extra fast (7' with 14# Co Poly)... most of my jigs and lures are 3/8 oz.  

 

One thing I noticed is when I leave about 2 feet of line/lure and cast in a sweeping motion I don't get or very minimal backlash, but its side handed and lure launches in a arch... I'm not launching the lure per say.   

 

Any how that video I watched last night about loading the rod for casting got me to wondering if my setup is working against me rather then helping...   I'm sure there are others in my position and I'm sure using the wrong type of rod can make casting more difficult.

[FordsnFishin]

Matching a rod to a certain bait your using is going to be ther biggest factor in ease of casting and distance. 

 

You wouldn't want to throw a 1/16oz crappie jig on a heavy power rod,  and you wouldn't want to throw a 4oz musky lure on a ultralight power rod.  For obvious reasons you'd struggle to cast them. 

 

Look on your rods and it will have recommended lure weights and keep them in that range. 

 

You said you use 10lb line as well.  I don't use any line under 12lb on bait casters. Preferably 15lb+.

 

The thin diameter lines will make it harder to cast,  and any back lashes you do get will be more of a fight to remove. 

[Flatrock]

I appreciate your response but it still does address the "rod loading" and the effects in casting and which would help ease the learning curve.

[Russ E]

If you are getting a lot of backlashes, your reel is not set properly. 

If you are starting out, keep the braking set pretty high, until you get used to using your thumb.

you may lose distance, but will get less backlashes.

In regards to loading the rod. A lighter rod will load easier than a heavy rod.your rods should be fine for a 3/8 oz. bait. To load a rod, all you do is swing the rod back. Then cast while the rod still has a bend. this loads the rod and improves distance and control.

I have a dozen med/hvy fast action baitcasters. From 4 different manufacturers. They will all throw a 3/8 oz. bait without backlashes. 

If I am using pure flourocarbon I never go smaller than 12 pound test on my baitcasters. 

flourocarbon has a smaller diameter than most copoly. 

Smaller diameter line backlashes easier than larger diameter line.

[A-Jay]

When discussing 'loading' the rod, it's often a tricky deal to explain, and just as challenging to 'show' some one.

One reason may have to do with the rod blank.  While they will all need to load & unload at least a little on every cast (pitching & flipping excluded for the most part) a graphite stick does so fairly quickly as compared to glass or composite. It's a 'feel' thing for each of us and once you 'get it' it becomes second nature, still doesn't make it any easier to explain to a new(er) caster.

 Below I've included a clip of me casting a spinnerbait on a composite stick.  This blank is defined as Moderate - or slow.

Perhaps you'll be able to see how the rod is truly doing the bulk of the casting here.

btw - I love this stick.

Good Luck

A-Jay

 

 

 

 

[Choporoz]

Backlash results when the spool spins so fast that line being pulled by the lure cannot keep up....the line pays out faster than the lure can keep it taut.  Smooth casts are the key to not over-revving your spool.   Casts into the wind are problematic because the lure slows, but the spool doesn't.   For me, I have more problems with overhead casts, too.  I just have a slightly greater chance of whipping it too hard overhead.  I am generally much smoother with a sidearm or roll cast.

I guess the discussion about loading up, is another way of saying that you need to get the lure out in front actually pulling out line...or at least keeping up with the rate the spool is spitting it out

[FordsnFishin]

24 minutes ago, Flatrock said:

I appreciate your response but it still does address the "rod loading" and the effects in casting and which would help ease the learning curve.

The rod loading will come from properly matching the bait to rod. As you swing back it loads the rod (arching the rod in a reverse motion) providing more forward motion allowing you to sling your bait ot further. 

 

The more you get used to it you'll feel the rod load and it'll become 2nd hand. 

[new2BC4bass]

Baitcasters require a smooth cast.  One of the easiest ways to stay smooth is with a roll cast.  AFAIAC the roll cast is also the best way to keep the rod 'loaded'.  I even try to incorporate a little roll with my overhead casts.  However, I feel I lose a little accuracy using the roll on an overhead cast.

 

The weights you are using should be fine with MH rods as long as that weight is within its rating.  Try to use a total weight that is near the middle (or a bit higher) of the rod's rating.  3/8 oz. plus plastic should meet this requirement for most rods rated MH.  One of my Medium rods carries the same rating as several of my MH rods so there are exceptions.

 

I can't really answer your question about the best action to load a rod, but it seems to me a slower action would take less effort to load the rod.

 

I am not sure I agree with those saying not to go below 12#..and 15# is better...on a casting rod.  12# is my standard line weight on MH rods.  8# is my standard on most of my Medium rods.  I think that 12#-15# is a good range to use while learning.  After that use what you want.

[WRangler506]

I scanned most of the replies but I agree with whats been said. When I used a more moderate action rod when i started, and a 3/8 to 1/2 oz weight, it was much easier to load up the rod to cast. I just learned the baitcasting techniques last season, but man its so much for after being all spinning for 30 years. A moderate fast rod or even a fast from maybe Dobyns should be plenty easy to load up with a weight in the mid range for that rod or slightly higher.

 

I dont mean easy, if you are just learning, just gotta practice with a forgiving setup with some give to the rod.

[Flatrock]

Ok... Is it possible I'm not loading the rod... meaning I'm casting but not loading the rod enough ?   I watch all these vids and you guys are just whipping it out there..  I have found that I'm having less issues with my Garcia with co poly throwing a 3/8oz jig with a 3" grub/crawfish trailer.. again I'm throwing it side handed but with a flowing action with fairly good success, but I realize I'm not really doing it right but I'm not backlashing that much. 

 

I admit everytime I've gone out I've had to deal with 5-15 mph winds... so not the best of conditions.  I wonder if I should look for a medium rod  with a med action for the BC with the 10# line for my lighter lures ?

[Flatrock]

8 hours ago, Choporoz said:

Backlash results when the spool spins so fast that line being pulled by the lure cannot keep up....the line pays out faster than the lure can keep it taut.  Smooth casts are the key to not over-revving your spool.   Casts into the wind are problematic because the lure slows, but the spool doesn't.   For me, I have more problems with overhead casts, too.  I just have a slightly greater chance of whipping it too hard overhead.  I am generally much smoother with a sidearm or roll cast.

I guess the discussion about loading up, is another way of saying that you need to get the lure out in front actually pulling out line...or at least keeping up with the rate the spool is spitting it out

 

 

I have the reel setup to where the lure will drop slowly.. so I believe I have the reel setup correctly.  However sometime I feel the lure falls short like there isn't enough weight to carry.

 

Forget underhand like flipping...  The line a couple layer below the top is already unspooling causing a mess.

[A-Jay]

12 minutes ago, Flatrock said:

 

 

I have the reel setup to where the lure will drop slowly.. so I believe I have the reel setup correctly.  However sometime I feel the lure falls short like there isn't enough weight to carry.

 

Forget underhand like flipping...  The line a couple layer below the top is already unspooling causing a mess.

In the earliest stages of learning to cast revolving spool gear - it is often very beneficial to set the reel up so that there is very little on the way of human intervention needed to prevent an overrun.  In other words, all you should need to do is hold the spool with your thumb, initiate the casting motion, and then release your thumb at the correct moment.  This will send the bait out some ways and then the reel will also stop it with out allowing the spool to 'over run'.

 This type of set up usually include sufficient braking to restrict the bait to fall AT ALL - EVEN IN FREE SPOOL.

   You will not achieve the greatest distance with this set up but you won't need scissors either.

 Practice this - get the feel of this, practice your timing so that you can also synchronize your thumb to stop the spool at the same time or even a split second before the reel does.

 Then, EVER SO SLOWLY AND USING THE SMALLEST INCREMENTS Possible, release some of the 'braking' and repeat the process.  In time you'll be a spool thumbing, distance casting fool.

But for now - baby steps.

 

 So with all that said - your reel is not set up appropriately - other wise you would not be making this post.

Good Luck

A-Jay

[LionHeart]

Really tough to give advice without more info but generically you just need practice.  Don't expect to jump in after not fishing for decades and be able to cast in the wind without backlash.

 

Are you using a 'budget' reel?  This will make you backlash more, no way around that.  Using a medium rod that loads more easily may, may help.  The reason is because if a rod is loading properly, the rod does the work of throwing the lure instead of the novice angler trying to do all the work.  Novice casting technique typically is condusive to backlash.  

[Glenn]

Here's how to set up and cast a baitcaster:

 

 

[Flatrock]

1 hour ago, Glenn said:

Here's how to set up and cast a baitcaster:

 

 

 

Thank you.. I have watched this video and several others of yours and they have been very helpful. 

[LionHeart]

Usually if I am using a bait that is too light to load the rod properly, my cast will end up to the left of where I wanted it to go.  I know, I know, that can be all about release point but generally at least for me it's a good indicator.  Does this seem to be happening to you also?

[The Bassman]

9 hours ago, Flatrock said:

 

 

I admit everytime I've gone out I've had to deal with 5-15 mph winds... so not the best of conditions.

Practice with the wind behind you. Also, start out with about a 3/8 practice plug, not a lure. Then understand when factors such as lure profile and wind come into play that you'll have to adjust brakes and possibly spool tension accordingly. All these physics is the main reason I mostly spin fish. Except for heavy apps like flipping, punching, C-rigs, and such, spinning is very versatile and trouble free.

[fishwizzard]

The easiest way to get a feel for when a rod is loading propery is to do the following:

 

1) Find a lead sinker or really anything that weighs at or just above the rod’s upper rating, then tie it on. 

2) let out like 12” of line and with the reel handle still engaged, make a 1/2 speed sidearm cast. You will be able to feel and see the rod loading on the back cast. Do this for a while

3) Cut the weight off and tie on a bare hook. Try the 1/2 speed cast again with the handle engaged.  The rod will not load at all. 

4) Now add a plastic and repeat the 1/2 speed cast. It will not feel like the sinker, but you should start feeing the rod load up.  If not, move to a heavier plastic until you can feel the tip load up. 

5) Now that you know what to feel for, you can fuss with the reel’s settings until it casts how you want it too. 

[scbassin]

Glen that was a excellent post.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

While you’re learning, peel off a long cast worth of line and put a strip of electrical tape around the spool. This will keep potential backlashes from getting too deep. Don’t go for distance or overhead casts until you learn to thumb the spool. Walk before you run. 

[JT Bagwell]

1 hour ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

While you’re learning, peel off a long cast worth of line and put a strip of electrical tape around the spool. This will keep potential backlashes from getting too deep. Don’t go for distance or overhead casts until you learn to thumb the spool. Walk before you run. 

I just post a video showing this a few days ago on my Instagram. If this allows me, the link will be below.

Tap Trick

[islandbass]

20 hours ago, Flatrock said:

Ok... Is it possible I'm not loading the rod... meaning I'm casting but not loading the rod enough ?   I watch all these vids and you guys are just whipping it out there..  I have found that I'm having less issues with my Garcia with co poly throwing a 3/8oz jig with a 3" grub/crawfish trailer.. again I'm throwing it side handed but with a flowing action with fairly good success, but I realize I'm not really doing it right but I'm not backlashing that much. 

 

I admit everytime I've gone out I've had to deal with 5-15 mph winds... so not the best of conditions.  I wonder if I should look for a medium rod  with a med action for the BC with the 10# line for my lighter lures ?

That definitely a prime candidate as a culprit. You see, failure to properly load a rod by the weight of the has zero consequence with a spinning set up...... ZERO. As a result, many anglers coming from a spinning background can go decades keeping a habit of failing to properly load the rod anyway. If you can ever recall performing what I call the “whipped cast,” it is a cast you see a spinning angler makes that is so quick that the rod makes that whipping sound as it is flung forward so fast that the lure doesn’t even get a chance to OR inadequately load the rod. The lure will still be launched out, with zero consequence. Try that with a casting setup and you might as well have crochet hook and scissors undo or cut off the newly formed backlash where it is probably better to replace the line because of all of the kinks, seen and unseen.  In addition, it won’t mater how excellent your reel settings are. 

 

The next time you practice casting, use at least 1/2 oz piece of lead. Go through the motion of an overhand cast but keep you thumb on the spool.

 

Do this gently. 

 

The weight of lure will bend your rod behind you and then it will catapulted by the rod forward. Use enough pressure with you thumb to prevent th weight from sailing forward. Congratulations. You just felt the weight load the rod. 

 

Repeat this multiple times. As amany times as it takes for you get familiar and acquanted with this process. 

 

Now, repeat again but this time let your thumb off of the spool. 

VERY IMPORTANT!!!!! The timing of the release is NOT the same as with spinning setup. This might take sometime to get accustomed to. Unfortunately, the release time on a casting setup is ever so slightly sooner than with a spinning setup. 

 

Picture a clock with 12:00 directly overhead and 9:00 directly ahead of you. You need to make sure your thumb comes off the spool around 1:00. Yes, that early. 

 

If you let go after 12:00, you will be awarded with the weight slamming into the ground and if your thumb isn’t fast enough to stop the spool cold, a glorified birds nest. 

 

If you let go before 2:00, you might get a rainbow cast that goes higher than it does forward. 

 

If you get this right, you will be amazed at how far you can cast with minimal effort from you. You will also be able to use this same principle of properly loading the rod with your spinning setups. 

 

During this period of learning here is another tip. If you suspect/feel you made a mistake in your mechanics, stop the spool dead cold with your thumb if you already let go or if you haven’t, don’t let your thumb off of the spool. Then start over.

 

I reckon you can gather that I came from a spinning background and that I am a nerdy analyzer, lol. 

 

All the other recommendations given are spot on, but since you mentioned your challenge was with the rod loading, this is my attempt to lay it out as I see it and gained from personal experience. 

 

Laslty, I might have quit on the baitcaster if I didn’t do this. I liken it to golfers who mindlessly whack 100 balls without even once thinking what they can do to improve their swing. 

 

So 100 mindless casts is far less valuable than 20 quality, well thought out, focused, casts. 

 

Now go and get it done. ??

 

 

 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

When a doesn’t load properly the instinct is to whip the bait, that’s when troubles begin. 

[Shimano_1]

Different rod actions will handle the casting motion differently.  A heavy action flipping stick is going to act differently than a medium action cranking stick.  The heavy action isnt goin to have much bend where the cranking rod is much softer and will have quite a bit of bend. This kind of requires you to make adjustments to how you cast. Hank parker says to bring the rod all the way back then stop before you throw forward instead of one motion back and forth. No clue if this works but it seemed to help the kid he was fishing with lol. I would try a daiwa with the mag force braking these reels are just super user friendly.  Tighten things up on your reels til you get really comfortable with your form then loosen slowly til you get desired distances. Good luck itll be worth the effort when you get where you wanna be with casting gear.  Some reels are just finicky by nature. I've used baitcasters for 30 years and have had several that I didnt keep simply because they weren't as easy to use as I thought they should be. 

[CrankFate]

On 3/31/2019 at 2:47 PM, Flatrock said:

I appreciate your response but it still does address the "rod loading" and the effects in casting and which would help ease the learning curve.

It is very hard to explain. And IMO, is going to be different for different people based on body mechanics and how far you want to cast. IMO, you can learn gear to a point from practice, but if you find gear that fits you best you’ll get the best result. I throw pretty hard when I cast, so I need a softer rod. A stiff rod will overrun my reel. The way I know the rod “loaded” right is when the force of the rod bending backwards slingshots the lure forward, the shockwave from the rod snapping back straight travels straight down my arm and sends my right elbow in the opposite direction at just the right time that the spool is about to start to overrun after it launches the lure off (literally like a wave going from the rod to my elbow like an s) at just the right time that I only need to touch the spool again when the lure hits the water. That’s the only way I can explain it. If the rod is too long, too short, too soft or too stiff, it won’t work at full force. And you have to feel the rod is bent the right amount (“loaded”) with your thumb on the spool and release at the right time for it to happen.

 

Other people may explain it differently, because the may do it differently. Because it works for them.

 

Unfortunately for me, once I get everything dialed in, I’m better at casting and talking about it on the internet than actually catching fish.