Rod companies with the best balance?

[Choporoz]

On 3/17/2019 at 11:41 PM, newyorktoiowa57 said:

Rod companies with the best balance?

 

Maybe Daiwa and Shimano--- both have good rods AND good reels

[anderb54]

My Destroyers all balance on the locking nut with no lure attached and a reel on them.

[newyorktoiowa57]

8 minutes ago, anderb54 said:

My Destroyers all balance on the locking nut with no lure attached and a reel on them.

Lol that is amazing!

[jbsoonerfan]

2 hours ago, anderb54 said:

My Destroyers all balance on the locking nut with no lure attached and a reel on them.

No matter the weight of the reel? No matter the length of the rod? I am no rocket scientist, but I don't see how that could be.

[newyorktoiowa57]

10 minutes ago, jbsoonerfan said:

No matter the weight of the reel? No matter the length of the rod? I am no rocket scientist, but I don't see how that could be.

I agree.

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

On 3/18/2019 at 1:01 PM, fishwizzard said:

Yep, I am firmly in the “light tip heavy butt” category so even a single pic of a rod balaned on someone’s finger tells me what I need to know. 

Whats this say?

Camera angle a little off but maybe an 1/8" gap between reel and finger

 

Medium/Fast 7'1" 13 fishing Omen Black (rod weighs 4.8oz) shown with Tat SV reel

 

[jbrew73]

If you have to even discuss rod balance you may want to consider buying new rods.  

[J Francho]

Is the balance point the same if it's upside down?

[fishwizzard]

9 hours ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

Whats this say?

Camera angle a little off but maybe an 1/8" gap between reel and finger

 

Medium/Fast 7'1" 13 fishing Omen Black (rod weighs 4.8oz) shown with Tat SV reel

 

That is about my ideal.  I rarey get my combos to balance that good as I find smaller reels more comfortable and will trade way some

balance for palming comfort. 

 

18 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Is the balance point the same if it's upside down?

Hah, that is correct, the true CoM will obviously involve the reel being upside down.  

 

 

[J Francho]

I heard these balance nicely:

 

[Diggy]

9 hours ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

Whats this say?

Camera angle a little off but maybe an 1/8" gap between reel and finger

 

Medium/Fast 7'1" 13 fishing Omen Black (rod weighs 4.8oz) shown with Tat SV reel

 

I came in to mention my Powell 723 and Orochi XX EMTF gen 1 being superb with balance as well as this this 13 Omen rod, except mine is in MH. It balances with almost every reel I put on it. I also had it paired with a Tatula funnily enough. The newer omen black 2 7'3" MH balances pretty well with a Tatula as well. I have a gen 1 envy 7'3" medium with a steez on it that feels almost weightless, but I am done buying 13 fishing after my customer service issue. 

[CrankFate]

I just wonder why super low weight split rear grips are all the rage these days when a full rear grip could eliminate some tip heaviness? IMO, shimano, in particular, seems to use big grips on their rods, probably for balance.

[lmbfisherman]

Personally balance is subjective, at least for me.  Call me crazy for any tip down presentation I like tip heavy.

[WRB]

Reel weight shouldn’t affect a properly built rod if the reel seat is centered over the balance point (pivot point).

It’s like a teeter totter; Put a 100 lbs over the pivot (balance point) it doesn’t affect the ends. Move the balance point (reel seat) and the ends require off set weight.

Reel weight should only affect overall weight.

Tom

 

[anderb54]

15 hours ago, jbsoonerfan said:

No matter the weight of the reel? No matter the length of the rod? I am no rocket scientist, but I don't see how that could be.

A well designed rod should balance on the locking nut with an appropriate reel on it. The balance on my OneTen Special only moves a few millimeters when I put my Chronarch on it vs my Aldebaran. Same with my Javelin or FMJ. If I were to put a 300 or 400 size reel on it, I'd expect different results though. I can post pictures if you're not convinced

[fissure_man]

Locating the balance point is a poor way to compare tip heaviness of different setups. Rather than asking “where does it balance,” we should ask “how well does it balance at my grip location?” Mounting a heavy enough reel can make any combo balance near the reel seat, but won’t reduce the combo’s tip weight unless you’re gripping ahead of the center of the reel (and even then, the detriment of added weight needs to be considered against the potential improvement in balance).

 

Instead of comparing balance points, it would be less ambiguous to measure actual tip heaviness as the torque required to prevent rotation of the rod held in a given orientation (horizontal) about a given axis representing the grip location (for simplicity, say this is through the center of the reel seat which should approximate the reel COG).  Without bungling around with scales and weights, one should be able to easily calculate this knowing the weight of your reel and measuring the balance points with and without the reel mounted:

 

T = (R*x)/(1- x/y)

Where:

T = static tip heaviness (torque to prevent rotation about the center of the reel seat when the rod is held horizontally)

R = reel weight

x = distance from the center of the reel seat to the balance point when the reel is attached

y = distance from the center of the reel seat to the balance point with no reel attached

 

Would be interesting to see how the various rods line up when measured in this way, in comparison to our perception of tip heaviness.

 

…

 

Worth noting that even though the above approach gives an objective way to quantify and compare ‘balance’ between different rods, the question remains: “what is best?”  An 8 ft 2x4 with a reel seat dead center might be perfectly balanced, but can you imagine hopping a jig or working a spook with it? Inertial characteristics of the combo related to overall weight and distribution of weight will affect how the rod feels and performs while you’re swashbuckling it around, beyond simply affecting the balance point. Ergonomics of the reel and reel seat are important, too, as is overall weight from a sensitivity and fatigue perspective.

 

If we accept a certain level of balance or tip weight as ideal (subjective), the way in which that balance is achieved matters: lighter blank, lighter guides = good; butt weights, heavy grip components, excess handle length = less good, potentially bad. The former qualities can be found in shorter, less powerful, and/or (typically) more expensive rods. The latter can be found anywhere - any rod could be balanced by weighting the butt, though whether or not the result is an improvement is subjective.  

 

Ultimately, trying out the setup to see how it feels (to you!) is still the best way to go.    

[fishwizzard]

Tackle Tour does calculate balancing tourqe for their reviews. 

[WRB]

16 hours ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

Whats this say?

Camera angle a little off but maybe an 1/8" gap between reel and finger

 

Medium/Fast 7'1" 13 fishing Omen Black (rod weighs 4.8oz) shown with Tat SV reel

 

If you take off the reel where is the balance point?  As shown the reel is counter balancing a heavy tip end and your finger will be about in front of the hook hanger.

If the balance point was the center of the reel the reel weight isn't a factor.

Tom

[MN Fisher]

18 minutes ago, WRB said:

If you take off the reel where is the balance point?  As shown the reel is counter balancing a heavy tip end and your finger will be about in front of the hook hanger.

If the balance point was the center of the reel the reel weight isn't a factor.

Tom

I think I'm lucky - all my setups with reel installed balance 1"-2" in front of the seat. I know some will think 'tip heavy', but this is my preferred balance point. Once line is put on, the balance point will shift back...slightly...but it's a go for casting based on my preferences.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

I float fish for steelhead with a 13’ rod held tip up all day long. The “balance” point is probably 2’ in front of the reel. Lol. 

[Jrob78]

4 hours ago, WRB said:

Reel weight shouldn’t affect a properly built rod if the reel seat is centered over the balance point (pivot point).

It’s like a teeter totter; Put a 100 lbs over the pivot (balance point) it doesn’t affect the ends. Move the balance point (reel seat) and the ends require off set weight.

Reel weight should only affect overall weight.

Tom

 

I don't believe I've ever seen a factory built bass rod that balanced under the reel seat without a reel.  What you're saying is correct but it seems like a pipe dream. 

[WRB]

All my custom rods are built to balance without a reel at the center of the reel seat. If I change reels the balance stays the same. 

Now let's talk about what matters, how a rod balances while you fishing. That balance depends on how you hold the rod and reel combination. Spinning rods it's easy to adjust balance by moving your grip point. Baitcasting isn't so easy to move your grip point and most of you hold the reel or palm the reel so that determines how the rod feels to you.

I am old school and hold the rod with 3 fingers in front of the reel resting the reel against  the palm, the line going between the index finger and thumb to feel it.

This grip tends to make the rod butt heavier however with line cast out and lure weight the total result is a well balanced feel to me and that is how it should be.

Tom

[Jrob78]

17 minutes ago, WRB said:

All my custom rods are built to balance without a reel at the center of the reel seat. If I change reels the balance stays the same. 

Now let's talk about what matters, how a rod balances while you fishing. That balance depends on how you hold the rod and reel combination. Spinning rods it's easy to adjust balance by moving your grip point. Baitcasting isn't so easy to move your grip point and most of you hold the reel or palm the reel so that determines how the rod feels to you.

I am old school and hold the rod with 3 fingers in front of the reel resting the reel against  the palm, the line going between the index finger and thumb to feel it.

This grip tends to make the rod butt heavier however with line cast out and lure weight the total result is a well balanced feel to me and that is how it should be.

Tom

I'm going to assume your custom rods are shorter than what has become commonplace now or have weight added into or on the butt of the rod. With the trend now of longer, 7'+ rods with split grips, achieving that perfect balance you describe seems nearly impossible. 

[Boogey Man]

39 minutes ago, WRB said:

All my custom rods are built to balance without a reel at the center of the reel seat. If I change reels the balance stays the same. 

Now let's talk about what matters, how a rod balances while you fishing. That balance depends on how you hold the rod and reel combination. Spinning rods it's easy to adjust balance by moving your grip point. Baitcasting isn't so easy to move your grip point and most of you hold the reel or palm the reel so that determines how the rod feels to you.

I am old school and hold the rod with 3 fingers in front of the reel resting the reel against  the palm, the line going between the index finger and thumb to feel it.

This grip tends to make the rod butt heavier however with line cast out and lure weight the total result is a well balanced feel to me and that is how it should be.

Tom

Would you post a pic of your rod balancing at the reel seat without a reel? Like with one finger under the reel seat? I'd really like to see that. 

[WRB]

1 hour ago, Boogey Man said:

Would you post a pic of your rod balancing at the reel seat without a reel? Like with one finger under the reel seat? I'd really like to see that. 

I have one rule with forums sites, never post pictures. I have emailed a few to members if you PM your address.

Tom