Stealing a pros spot during a tournament

[MIbassyaker]

I understand pros getting emotional when something they can't control gets in their way and they have career achievement on the line.  They're human, they're subject to the same self-interested lapses of reason everybody else is, and they will make mistakes.

 

But, the fact that this sort of thing happens so frequently tells me it is not just about individual hot heads and bad actors. It tells me there is a culture within the tournament organization that is fostering a false conception that pros are owed deferential treatment on public waters that is not afforded to anybody else. That sort of thing needs to be challenged more seriously at the organizational level.

 

[Osprey39]

16 hours ago, jbsoonerfan said:

I On the other hand they may be locals and he was fishing "their" spot. Why ANYONE, Pro, Local or anyone else thinks any part of the lake is their spot is beyond me. 

Bingo.  These were kids but let's say they were adults.  Maybe that day is the only day they can get a kitchen pass from the wife to go fishing.  You think they're going to care that a pro fished the spot earlier and might come back?  Nope.  I wonder what some of these guys would do if they were fishing Okeechobee.  If you've never fished there, the lake is massive but most people all fish in the same handful of areas so on a tournament day it's not uncommon to see 40+ boats in about 1 acre of water.

1 hour ago, RichF said:

My guess is most of these comments are coming from guys who don't fish tournaments.  

I fish plenty of tournaments but I don't idolize pro anglers nor do I think they can do no wrong and that they own the lake when they are in town.  I am not saying you do, but some folks do think like that.  I can see the issue from both sides and the way I see it is if you moved, you moved.  You can't be upset if someone is fishing there when you decide to return.

[BassThumb]

Watch the first day of the second Mille Lacs Bassmaster AOY championship from 2017.

 

Brandon Palaniuk calls me and my dad out on the Bassmaster Live feed for fishing literally 3-4 blocks away from him. He said we zig zagged back and forth to cut him off on Indian Point, which is a gigantic rocky flat about the size of a small city. Mille Lacs is also 330,000 acres. He won AOY that year.

 

I emailed him after the I saw the footage and basically called him out, telling him that I was out there supporting BASS and spending money, and actually was a fan of his. I never fished within three blocks of any angler or dropped waypoints on the spots they fished. I never fished the key structure or big boulder piles I was aware of. The only difference between me and the other fans was that I carried a fishing rod and they stared at their phones, watching Bassmaster Live. Brandon was apologetic and acknowledged the misunderstanding. Seems like an alright guy.

 

We were just out there drifting around and throwing Ned Rigs and watching the Elites fish. We stayed at Eddy's where the take-off was, ate at the casino where the weigh-in was, watched and enjoyed all of it, checked out the bass boats, mingled with the anglers.

 

I'm an Ike fan for life after he gave me a 20 minute tutorial on how to break down a huge smallie lake when I walked up to him and his boat while he was rigging with only the intention of saying Hi and good luck. Man that guy loves to talk and teach.

 

It was crazy to see the types of lures anglers were experimenting with. All their stuff was laid out on the carpet of their boats at the weigh-ins. 1.5oz bladed jigs, 7" swimbaits, monster crankbaits, etc. All on a lake were the Neg Rig and drop-shot are most people's go-to.

[fishindad]

53 minutes ago, Osprey39 said:

Bingo.  These were kids but let's say they were adults.  Maybe that day is the only day they can get a kitchen pass from the wife to go fishing.  You think they're going to care that a pro fished the spot earlier and might come back?  Nope.  I wonder what some of these guys would do if they were fishing Okeechobee.  If you've never fished there, the lake is massive but most people all fish in the same handful of areas so on a tournament day it's not uncommon to see 40+ boats in about 1 acre of water.

I fish plenty of tournaments but I don't idolize pro anglers nor do I think they can do no wrong and that they own the lake when they are in town.  I am not saying you do, but some folks do think like that.  I can see the issue from both sides and the way I see it is if you moved, you moved.  You can't be upset if someone is fishing there when you decide to return.

Your last two sentences are spot on. This topic has been discussed before and I cannot believe the mentality of so-called grown men thinking they own anything other than their egos and self-respect. The footage of KVD whining about Ike moving in about 5 cast lengths away was the worst display by someone considered to be the goat. Anything but professional in my eyes. If I had to choose one to fish with and have a beer it would be Ike all day.

 

Ill use this metaphor to describe this entitled behavior of “owning” a spot. Say you and your buds go to a local college bar and start hitting on some cuties. Now if a guy moves in while you’re putting moves on, not cool and that’s how bar fights start. But, I don’t care how much game you think you have if you get up and walk away from some hottie, you better be a man and learn your lesson if some other dude moves in and takes her home cuz all’s fair and no one owns anything or anyone that’s not bought and paid for. 

[soflabasser]

3 hours ago, RichF said:

My guess is most of these comments are coming from guys who don't fish tournaments.  

Plenty of people do not care about fishing tournaments and many of those people have lost count of the 8 pound or better bass they have caught. Fishing tournaments does not mean you are good at trophy bass fishing, multi species fishing, or deep sea fishing. Not everyone is going to enjoy the same type of fishing and for sure not everyone is going to leave a spot they are on for some ''pro'' or wannabe pro that feels its ok to steal a spot from them. Good thing its illegal to harass a fisherman in Florida which helps keep in check these type of behaviors.

3 hours ago, MIbassyaker said:

I understand pros getting emotional when something they can't control gets in their way and they have career achievement on the line.  They're human, they're subject to the same self-interested lapses of reason everybody else is, and they will make mistakes.

 

But, the fact that this sort of thing happens so frequently tells me it is not just about individual hot heads and bad actors. It tells me there is a culture within the tournament organization that is fostering a false conception that pros are owed deferential treatment on public waters that is not afforded to anybody else. That sort of thing needs to be challenged more seriously at the organizational level.

 

Well said. Nobody owns a spot in public water and it does not matter who you think you are. Whoever is there first gets to fish the spot and if that person leaves that spot then someone else can go fish that spot.

[kenmitch]

Looks like fishing tournaments takes the fun out of fishing and replaces it with stress and anxiety. 

 

 

 

 

[RichF]

3 hours ago, soflabasser said:

Plenty of people do not care about fishing tournaments and many of those people have lost count of the 8 pound or better bass they have caught. Fishing tournaments does not mean you are good at trophy bass fishing, multi species fishing, or deep sea fishing. Not everyone is going to enjoy the same type of fishing and for sure not everyone is going to leave a spot they are on for some ''pro'' or wannabe pro that feels its ok to steal a spot from them. Good thing its illegal to harass a fisherman in Florida which helps keep in check these type of behaviors.

Not trying to "fish" measure here, man. I know plenty of non-tournament anglers that know how to catch bass and plenty of tournament anglers that don't. That's not the point.  I'm just saying that it's easy for those NOT in Latimer's position to dismiss his frustration with the scenario.  Would you not be salty if some other boat, who was more than likely following the tournament and knew where you leading on the final day, hung around your primary spot, then jumped on it when you left to check another area?  I mean, it's not like the win would be life changing for you and your family or anything...To me, everyone saying "it's public water and I have the right to fish anywhere I want" sound an awful lot like the guys saying "I've been fishing this spot for 4 days straight so take a hike."  Maybe both parties could benefit from a little more courtesy on water.

[jbsoonerfan]

22 minutes ago, RichF said:

Not trying to "fish" measure here, man. I know plenty of non-tournament anglers that know how to catch bass and plenty of tournament anglers that don't. That's not the point.  I'm just saying that it's easy for those NOT in Latimer's position to dismiss his frustration with the scenario.  Would you not be salty if some other boat, who was more than likely following the tournament and knew where you leading on the final day, hung around your primary spot, then jumped on it when you left to check another area?  I mean, it's not like the win would be life changing for you and your family or anything...To me, everyone saying "it's public water and I have the right to fish anywhere I want" sound an awful lot like the guys saying "I've been fishing this spot for 4 days straight so take a hike."  Maybe both parties could benefit from a little more courtesy on water.

That's the problem right there. Money changes people, usually for the worse. If I had fished a spot every day for fun for 40 days in a row and I caught fish and I saw the same guy every day and he happened to be in that spot on the 41st day, I would move along. But I guess since money is on the line it is different. 

[MIbassyaker]

1 hour ago, RichF said:

Not trying to "fish" measure here, man. I know plenty of non-tournament anglers that know how to catch bass and plenty of tournament anglers that don't. That's not the point.  I'm just saying that it's easy for those NOT in Latimer's position to dismiss his frustration with the scenario.  Would you not be salty if some other boat, who was more than likely following the tournament and knew where you leading on the final day, hung around your primary spot, then jumped on it when you left to check another area?  I mean, it's not like the win would be life changing for you and your family or anything...To me, everyone saying "it's public water and I have the right to fish anywhere I want" sound an awful lot like the guys saying "I've been fishing this spot for 4 days straight so take a hike."  Maybe both parties could benefit from a little more courtesy on water.

 

Why would I be salty? Only if I was under the assumption that non-participants are obligated to acknowledge a spot I'm not currently fishing is still "mine". But that assumption is false. And the high stakes of a tournament do not make it true.

 

[RichF]

1 hour ago, jbsoonerfan said:

That's the problem right there. Money changes people, usually for the worse. If I had fished a spot every day for fun for 40 days in a row and I caught fish and I saw the same guy every day and he happened to be in that spot on the 41st day, I would move along. But I guess since money is on the line it is different. 

If I was fishing a major tournament for 3 days straight in that spot, had the lead going into the final day, and that guy was there on day 4...I wouldn't just move along.  I would explain the situation and politely ask to at lease share the spot.  Does he have to give it to me?  Of course not.  But why not?  That seems like a nice thing to do, given the circumstances and the fact that it's one day. 

2 minutes ago, MIbassyaker said:

 

Why would I be salty? Only if I was under the assumption that non-participants are obligated to acknowledge a spot I'm not currently fishing is still "mine". But that assumption is false. And the high stakes of a tournament do not make it true.

I don't think anyone is debating whether or not that's true or false. It's the matter of: why not let a guy who's invested a lot into trying to make a career for himself have a spot for a day?  Obviously, nobody HAS to give way to anyone, tournament or not.  That's not the point.  I just don't think it's so unreasonable to oblige under these circumstances.  And again, sentiment coming from someone not put in that particular position.  

[jbsoonerfan]

14 minutes ago, RichF said:

If I was fishing a major tournament for 3 days straight in that spot, had the lead going into the final day, and that guy was there on day 4...I wouldn't just move along.  I would explain the situation and politely ask to at lease share the spot.  Does he have to give it to me?  Of course not.  But why not?  That seems like a nice thing to do, given the circumstances and the fact that it's one day. 

I don't think anyone is debating whether or not that's true or false. It's the matter of: why not let a guy who's invested a lot into trying to make a career for himself have a spot for a day?  Obviously, nobody HAS to give way to anyone, tournament or not.  That's not the point.  I just don't think it's so unreasonable to oblige under these circumstances.  And again, sentiment coming from someone not put in that particular position.  

But that is not what happened here. He popped off like an arrogant D Bag. They moved right along and didn't cause any problems. He showed his A$$ and acted as though he was better than them and he owned the spot. I don't wear a jersey when I fish, so maybe I am just a simpleton who doesn't deserve to be on the water with the greatest anglers in the world.

 

He left that spot, when would it be okay to fish it? Maybe they could only fish that day and they were locals and knew about it. 

 

Sorry, I re-read your post. I didn't realize he "leased" the spot. Different situation if he signed a lease agreement.

[MIbassyaker]

3 minutes ago, RichF said:

 

I don't think anyone is debating whether or not that's true or false. It's the matter of: why not let a guy who's invested a lot into trying to make a career for himself have a spot for a day?  Obviously, nobody HAS to give way to anyone, tournament or not.  That's not the point.  I just don't think it's so unreasonable to oblige under these circumstances.  And again, sentiment coming from someone not put in that particular position.  

 

Hold on a minute--who is letting who do what, in a case like this?  It is the pro who does not want to let the other(s) use the spot. The pro left the spot! When he comes back to find it occupied, he cannot assume he is owed the spot. if he wants to fish it again, perhaps he should ask politely without scolding or getting surly?

[soflabasser]

2 hours ago, jbsoonerfan said:

That's the problem right there. Money changes people, usually for the worse. 

Well said. People put too much emphasis on the money they can potentially make in a tournament and these people should be putting more emphasis on morals. It is not right to be a jerk and harass someone off a spot, tournament fishermen need to understand this and move somewhere else or fish the same public water spot with recreational fishermen without complaining so much. These ''pros'' are supposedly very talented in bass fishing so they should have no problem finding a new spot and catching lots of fish.

[MIbassyaker]

Ah! There we go -- missed this at first, we don't disagree after all:

28 minutes ago, RichF said:

If I was fishing a major tournament for 3 days straight in that spot, had the lead going into the final day, and that guy was there on day 4...I wouldn't just move along.  I would explain the situation and politely ask to at lease share the spot.  Does he have to give it to me?  Of course not.  But why not?  That seems like a nice thing to do, given the circumstances and the fact that it's one day.

Seems like an obvious solution. If the cameras caught pros doing this instead of getting upset and scolding people, there wouldn't be much to complain about. 

 

[soflabasser]

6 hours ago, kenmitch said:

Looks like fishing tournaments takes the fun out of fishing and replaces it with stress and anxiety. 

^ This ^

 

Seems like many tournament fishermen are more interested in the paycheck and fame and not care so much about the fun aspect of catching bass. For me bass fishing is a fun hobby and I plan on keeping it that way.

[Troy85]

On 3/13/2019 at 5:34 AM, TOXIC said:

  It wasn't uncommon when I was guiding to have many many fishermen move in on me or even actually follow me around the lake since I had a pretty distinctive recognizable boat and they knew I was a guide.

Talk about classy! WOW!

[TOXIC]

1 hour ago, Troy85 said:

Talk about classy! WOW!

The binoculars were usually a dead giveaway.  

[Hawkeye21]

10 hours ago, soflabasser said:

^ This ^

 

Seems like many tournament fishermen are more interested in the paycheck and fame and not care so much about the fun aspect of catching bass. For me bass fishing is a fun hobby and I plan on keeping it that way.

Can't do what you love for a living without making money though.  It's all part of it.

[J Francho]

31 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

The binoculars were usually a dead giveaway.  

The bent rod pattern is strong up here.

[Shifty06]

I seen another state on here as well if there was a high school fishing tournament going on the same time an these boys done knew about the spot an were politely waiting. Then I say only one "UN-COOL" was B lat. These boys are fighting for an education, an in my opinion that's worth a heck of a lot more than what he's after.  

Now we will never know the whole story of what happened an either side could be "un-cool" But its public water, an public water I agree with move your meat loose your seat rule. Just like anything else.

Now I do not compete for bass fishing but I am a competitive shooter an when we compete we rent the range for X amount of days needed. As to have free reign over the complex without interference.

I am surprised at how some of the "pro's" act, I have really never watch "Pro" fishing as I have a distain for about all "pro" games as I call them. (only two things I call sports in my book an that's bull riding an auto racing. Even racing can be childish between drivers.) But sponsors in the shooting world have a lot tighter reign on what they accept an do not accept for behavior.  I have seen some blow ups of guy's breaking rods an generally acting worse than my 2 year old. You without question would be without sponsors by next weekend in our world there is no room for that.

22 hours ago, RichF said:

My guess is most of these comments are coming from guys who don't fish tournaments.  

IDK if I am reading your comment wrong, But I see it as the I'm entitled one. And I do get it, it probably is frustrating but its part of your game. But you have no entitlement. Your tax dollars fund that lake same as mine.

I don't even see the problem with pro's, How do they know someone else didn't mark that spot days before the other. Sure they didn't beat it up everyday like they did but they knew about it just as long if not longer than the other one. They just had X amount of better spots than the other.

ALL competitive sports with equipment are games of money plain an simple, You want to be first there an have reign over the hole buy a bigger motor, better boat whatever the case maybe.  In my case it's the same. Talent can take you the furthest, but there is times when better gear is the difference. That new faster cartridge costs more to operate but some days in some situations it can be worth a couple points an that's huge.

All in all if a tourney guy came up where I had the spot an asked, hey can I fish here? Yep sure could bud have at it, I'll pick it back up when you leave. But if I waited an he left, fair game. Or have one roll up demanding me to leave, bc that was his spot, that's whole different colorful conversation.

"Catch more flies with honey then vinegar"
"You want to see the true measure of a man, Look at his actions when he's down behind the count, Not when he's on top."

[kenmitch]

We all have places we like to try and catch a bass or two, but there is no such thing as " my spot " in the end. We might tend to call these places our spots, but in reality they really aren't ours. If I go to the lake and there is already somebody trying his/her luck in a place I intended to fish I'll just try somewhere else. 

 

What does the tournament angler consider the buffer zone around his alleged spot? What are the dimensions of a spot? Does a spot include the whole weed line, stretch of timber, creek bed, drop off, flat? 

 

I've had bass boats blast thru spots I've been fishing before with their trolling motors. I just shake my head and shrug it off. I guess they think a guy sitting in a kayak can't cast too far or they just feel like whomever has the more expensive vessel has the right of way. Sometimes karma will reward me with a nice bass shortly after they pass thru. The look on their faces is rewarding, a few expletives is a bonus!

 

 

 

 

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

On 3/12/2019 at 2:24 PM, jbsoonerfan said:

Well now that I have seen it. Did he think they were going to catch all of "his" fish? They moved right along when he got to "his" spot. If he would have popped off "not cool" to me like that then we would have been fishing side by side. Reminds me of the people at the casino who play a machine and as soon as they get up if you happen to sit down and hit something they think you stole "their" machine. In my opinion he is the one who was "not cool" in this instance by thinking it was "his" spot. If he left "his" spot then where did he go? I'm assuming one of "his" other spots. How many spots on the lake are "his"? Is there a map of Brian Latimer designated fishing "spots"?

For future reference any person that will be fishing the below lake while I am there STAY OFF MY SPOTS even if I am on one spot at the other side of the lake.

This is your one and only warning.

 

 

 

 

 

[Heartland]

4 hours ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

For future reference any person that will be fishing the below lake while I am there STAY OFF MY SPOTS even if I am on one spot at the other side of the lake.

This is your one and only warning.

 

 

 

 

 

The green zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only there is no stopping in the yellow zone.....

 

[Ratherbfishing]

When I was in high school (and some would say even now), I wasn't terribly sophisticated.  If I saw a guy fishing a spot and had caught fish (when, most likely, I wasn't) and he left, I would have, probably, shrugged my shoulders and moved in.  Wouldn't think much of it, actually. He left, after all.  Perhaps it wasn't as innocent as this (I don't know) but in an imperfect world where resources have to be shared, one can't expect to reserve a spot indefinitely.  That money is on the line is, to me, irrelevant.  

[RichF]

On 3/14/2019 at 12:00 AM, jbsoonerfan said:

But that is not what happened here. He popped off like an arrogant D Bag. They moved right along and didn't cause any problems. He showed his A$$ and acted as though he was better than them and he owned the spot. I don't wear a jersey when I fish, so maybe I am just a simpleton who doesn't deserve to be on the water with the greatest anglers in the world.

 

He left that spot, when would it be okay to fish it? Maybe they could only fish that day and they were locals and knew about it. 

 

Sorry, I re-read your post. I didn't realize he "leased" the spot. Different situation if he signed a lease agreement.

You're kinda elevating this to preposterous levels.  These are the sort of comments that shut down debate.  The whole point of my argument is this: if you've never been in that particular situation, there's no way you can say "I wouldn't have reacted that way and would've just moved on."  I agree B Lat could've handled it better than he did but I also understand how the frustration could boil over.  

 

On 3/14/2019 at 12:41 PM, Shifty06 said:

IDK if I am reading your comment wrong, But I see it as the I'm entitled one. And I do get it, it probably is frustrating but its part of your game. But you have no entitlement. Your tax dollars fund that lake same as mine.

Don't believe I ever said anything about entitlement.  I don't believe anyone is entitled to anything.  I won't re-hash my points as I feel I've done it enough.  Everyone's stance on this subject is likely based on a specific personal experience he/she has had on the water.  Fair enough.  I've been on both sides of this and have seen both parties do the wrong thing.  Conflicts are a part of life, unfortunately.  We could all benefit from a courtesy upgrade.