SMB or Warmouth?

[Kevin Paul Baelish]

14 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

For the sake of argument let’s say it’s a long nosed gar. ?

 

Bahahahaha! There we go.

[Catt]

Do us all a favor & send the picture to TPWD or specifically Todd Driscoll 

[Kevin Paul Baelish]

I sent it to my local guy earlier, but yeah. Already done. Just waiting to hear back.

[Kevin Paul Baelish]

Oof... Totally forgot about my uncle that worked with the San Antonio River Authority for years doing research on water conditions and varying fish species. He's calling it as a hybrid. He recommended reaching out to the Aquatics Center at Texas State to verify (which I already had), but he really thinks it's a bass/sunfish hybrid.

[Kevin Paul Baelish]

Finally got a word back from the experts! I didn't hear from TPWD, but one of the aquatic specialists in the biology department (the guy that actually does the fish identification lectures) ID'd it as a warmouth. Here's his reply:

 

"

Kevin:

 

I apologize for the delay in responding.  I read your email, wanted to say more than “It’s a Warmouth”, but then got distracted. 

 

I tend to put high priority on “Fish ID” type emails.  It is not a bother.  I enjoying do this.

 

Warmouth:  Striations on the head (“war paint”) is one of the characteristics.  I agree with you that only three are apparent, but I see a little bit of the bottom one and a little bit of the top one for 5.  Color patterns aren’t always the best characteristics.  Color patterns differ between male and females, can change during reproductive season, and can change when stressed.  Lots of variability. 

 

Another characteristic color pattern is the red (a see more of a red tint) behind and slightly above the black operculum spot (ear spot).

 

Sunfish vs. bass:   Bass tend to be long and skinny, whereas Sunfishes tend to shorter and thicker (deeper body).  To make this quantitative (and measureable), body depth usually goes 3 to 5 times in standard length for basses, and goes 2 to 2.5 times in standard length for sunfishes.   Obviously health of the fish can affect the measures.

 

Combining body form with dorsal fin configuration (as you noted below, spiny dorsal and soft dorsal fins are joined to form almost a single dorsal fin in sunfishes, basses dorsal fins are almost separated to weakly joined), we can pretty much separate sunfishes and basses into two separate piles.

 

Among the sunfishes, it’s understandable on why Warmouths are confused more often with the bass lineage.  Without double checking my facts (going off memory), Warmouth represents an older lineage of sunfish.  As such, it is more closely related to the ancestral lineages of basses; therefore, it retains more of the ancestral characteristics (bass-like, tend to be more longer and skinner than other sunfishes).

 

Tim"

 

Looks like we all learned a bit more about warmouth on this one! Haha

[TnRiver46]

Cool deal 

[jbsoonerfan]

That's awesome. Glad you got a response.

[WesCombs15]

Trying to determine if this is a Warmouth, Brim, SMB? 

[soflabasser]

56 minutes ago, WesCombs15 said:

Trying to determine if this is a Warmouth, Brim, SMB? 

Welcome to the forum. The fish you are holding is a warmouth.

[Bluebasser86]

4 hours ago, soflabasser said:

Welcome to the forum. The fish you are holding is a warmouth.

Nailed it.

 

Brim is a slang term used to describe about any kind of the sunfish species, not an actual type of fish.

[WesCombs15]

On 3/29/2020 at 8:58 PM, soflabasser said:

Welcome to the forum. The fish you are holding is a warmouth.

Okay I figured as much thanks!

20 hours ago, Bluebasser86 said:

Nailed it.

 

Brim is a slang term used to describe about any kind of the sunfish species, not an actual type of fish.

Well excuse my slang 

[VolFan]

Just to muddy the waters...I always used bream to refer to bluegils...not all sunfish like shellcrackers and green sunfish...

[Bluebasser86]

4 hours ago, VolFan said:

Just to muddy the waters...I always used bream to refer to bluegils...not all sunfish like shellcrackers and green sunfish...

And here they call everything in the sunfish family (bluegill, green sunfish, redear sunfish, warmouth, longear sunfish ect), "perch" ? Like nails on a chalkboard when I hear it. Some even break it down into subspecies like a green sunfish is a "black perch" ? can't even get the color right.

[bogfrog]

Where I am fish called Rock bass and Warmouth are nearly identical.

[Fallser]

I don't think we have warmmouth up here.  Here's a couple fish from the local creek,  a rock bass and a smallmouth.  

I don't think we have warmmouth up here.  Here's a couple fish from the local creek,  a rock bass and a smallmouth.  

[M14]

That is a warmouth the purple sheen gives it away 

[bulldog1935]

here's an A-strain endemic Guadalupe bass from Cibolo headwaters above the aquifer recharge barrier.  

 

Warmouth (Lepomis sp.) from Guadalupe headwaters - N fork above Hunt

 

Rock Bass (Ambloplites sp.) from Guadalupe tailwater

 

this is a smallie hybrid from the middle Guadalupe (Mueller Falls above Rebecca's Creek)

 

all these fish can turn their bars on and off - we normally see their aggression colors when we handle them

[BASS302]

More info: warmouth have three spines in the anal fin, rock bass have five to six spines in the anal fin.