Ambassadeur c4 vs Revo Beast vs Cardif A

[hwright38]

I'm looking for a "big fish reel." I would like to try a round reel, but I don't know how well they cast compared to low-profile reels. Would you rather have a ~$140 round reel or a ~$280 bigger low profile?

[redmeansdistortion]

C4, but I love me some Ambassadeurs.  You can find C4s for $80 to $100 if you look around.

[hwright38]

3 minutes ago, redmeansdistortion said:

C4

Do you have a problem casting since the level wind doesn't disengage? I've heard that can cut your distance quite a bit

[redmeansdistortion]

Not at all.  The synchronized level wind does affect distance, but not much to be of concern.  A fresh out of the box Abu C3 or C4 will throw 1/2oz baits out to and past 50yd in the hands of an experienced caster.  

[OkobojiEagle]

There is smoother line flow during the cast when the line guide is synchronized with the line coming from the spool.

 

oe

[diehardbassfishing]

Correct - casting distance does not suffer. Always a pleasant surprise when I shift from one of my Daiwa Mag Force Z reels to an Ambassadeur 4000 or 5000 series Ultra-cast (C3/C4 design), two brake block reel. They just do it right!

 

Karl

[Bankbeater]

I would go with the C4.  I bought a used 5600C4 back in November of 2005 and retired it at the end of last year.  The only thing that ever went out on it was the pawl in the level wind.

[redmeansdistortion]

I fish Ambassadeurs almost exclusively.  I say almost because I do use spinning tackle from time to time, but with baitcasters, it's always the Swedish round fellers.  Some of them are over 30 years old and still work like new.  My only complaint about Ambassadeurs involves the manufacturing process.  They really like to slather thick peanut butter grease all over everything!  I get it, they are building their product for a crowd that seldom or never maintains their gear, but all that grease slows them down considerably.  The greased worm gear in particularly rubs me the wrong way.  When oiled, the spool rotates much easier and the line guide moves nice and smooth because the pawl isn't cutting it's way through grease.  Picture a greased vs oiled worm like driving through snow vs dry pavement.  When I rebuild, I use oil on the level wind and run the spool pinion and idler gear dry and the reel really flies then.  A properly lubed 4600 C3 or C4 should have no trouble casting even 1/4oz baits trouble free, but that's about their limit unless open your wallet for tuner parts.  

[CrankFate]

I would not choose any of these. But the synchronized levelwind is drastically underrated. It works better than magnets in spool control with hard casting. It also causes less start up inertia on the spool when a big fish runs on drag.

[kenmitch]

28 minutes ago, redmeansdistortion said:

I fish Ambassadeurs almost exclusively.  I say almost because I do use spinning tackle from time to time, but with baitcasters, it's always the Swedish round fellers.  Some of them are over 30 years old and still work like new.  My only complaint about Ambassadeurs involves the manufacturing process.  They really like to slather thick peanut butter grease all over everything!  I get it, they are building their product for a crowd that seldom or never maintains their gear, but all that grease slows them down considerably.  The greased worm gear in particularly rubs me the wrong way.  When oiled, the spool rotates much easier and the line guide moves nice and smooth because the pawl isn't cutting it's way through grease.  Picture a greased vs oiled worm like driving through snow vs dry pavement.  When I rebuild, I use oil on the level wind and run the spool pinion and idler gear dry and the reel really flies then.  A properly lubed 4600 C3 or C4 should have no trouble casting even 1/4oz baits trouble free, but that's about their limit unless open your wallet for tuner parts.  

I'm going to have to check into the peanut butter grease issue you mentioned. I picked up a new C4-5600 back in December during one of those eBay coupon deals. On sale for $99 -15% off coupon -$50 giftcard I payed $5 for (used CC rewards) I'm into it for around $40 or so. Weathers been sucky here is SoCal the last few months on my days off at least. I've only played around with it one time so far and that was a quick trip, casting from shore when my 795SB was delivered. I wasn't impressed by it's casting distance. Not like it didn't cast far, just more like I felt like I could cast further, but the reel was holding me back. Maybe it'll take some practice with the combo? Maybe I need to tear it down and clean and oil it. I looked at some of the mods they sell for it and they're not really too pricey depending on what you get. I'm guessing possibly just a clean out and lightly lube/oil would be the 1st thing to try before going the mod route. I'll be fishing it from my kayak sitting down so any distance improvements I can achieve will be of use. 

[redmeansdistortion]

40 minutes ago, kenmitch said:

I'm going to have to check into the peanut butter grease issue you mentioned. I picked up a new C4-5600 back in December during one of those eBay coupon deals. On sale for $99 -15% off coupon -$50 giftcard I payed $5 for (used CC rewards) I'm into it for around $40 or so. Weathers been sucky here is SoCal the last few months on my days off at least. I've only played around with it one time so far and that was a quick trip, casting from shore when my 795SB was delivered. I wasn't impressed by it's casting distance. Not like it didn't cast far, just more like I felt like I could cast further, but the reel was holding me back. Maybe it'll take some practice with the combo? Maybe I need to tear it down and clean and oil it. I looked at some of the mods they sell for it and they're not really too pricey depending on what you get. I'm guessing possibly just a clean out and lightly lube/oil would be the 1st thing to try before going the mod route. I'll be fishing it from my kayak sitting down so any distance improvements I can achieve will be of use. 

Here are my recommendations for a new Ambassadeur.  Clean out all grease, and also clean out the anti-reverse bearing.  Grease the gears, pinion yoke, and all other areas with metal to metal contact.  Oil the bearings, worm gear, and the idler gear post.  Also look at how many brake blocks are engaged.  Personally, I don't use them.  To be on the safe side, run 2 of them, but if your thumb is good, I don't condone their use.  

 

The new production Ambassadeur is a very fine reel when properly lubed.  It's smooth and casts easy.  Honestly, I don't feel they need to be upgraded unless you're going for considerable distances.    

[crypt]

round reels fish just like any reel. cast as far ,just as smooth. just round. most are a little heavier than low profile reels but are almost bulletproof. I've got 45/4600s that are 20-35 years old that I still use all the time.

 

 

[WRB]

Let me think....Garcia or Shimano reel, slam dunk go with the Cardiff 300A.

Tom

[hwright38]

1 minute ago, WRB said:

Let me think....Garcia or Shimano reel, slam dunk go with the Cardiff 300A.

Tom

What's your reasoning there? 

[waymont]

C4. I broke my old one out last suofor some surf casting for blues and stripers using 1/2 and 3/4 bucktails and it was slinging them way out there with 15lb big game line. I was impressed. I forgot what a great casters these reels are.

[WRB]

1 hour ago, hwright38 said:

What's your reasoning there? 

Having fished with Abu Ambassador Garcia reels from the mid 60's to early 90's, about 30 years with 500, 5000C, 4500C and 2500C reels I know them well. Changed to Daiwa and Shimano reels in the 90's. Shimano reels are superior in construction and performance at every level. 

The legacy Ambassador reels, pre 2000, have a cult like following. Don Iovino refurbishes and super tunes those reels and it's amazing the number of reels he does annually.

Tom

 

[Tennessee Boy]

Shimano is a company with a long history of building quality innovative reels.  Abu Garcia was a company with a similar history that was bought by Pure Fishing which was bought by the company that makes Rubbermaid products and was recently sold to a company whose greatest success is in Cold Water Creek women’s clothing stores.  History is important to me so I buy my reels from Shimano and my panties from Cold Water Creek. ?

[hwright38]

4 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Shimano is a company with a long history of building quality innovative reels.  Abu Garcia was a company with a similar history that was bought by Pure Fishing which was bought by the company that makes Rubbermaid products and was recently sold to a company whose greatest success is in Cold Water Creek women’s clothing stores.  History is important to me so I buy my reels from Shimano and my panties from Cold Water Creek. ?

Eh, I don't really buy into that. Companies get bought out all the time, and heck, even Shimano has their hands in other cookie jars. I have multiple Abu products and they're all quality, especially for the price. I'm not interested in valuing a reel based off speculation because of who makes it, but from it's individual performance.

[MN Fisher]

20 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Shimano is a company with a long history of building quality innovative reels.  Abu Garcia was a company with a similar history that was bought by Pure Fishing which was bought by the company that makes Rubbermaid products and was recently sold to a company whose greatest success is in Cold Water Creek women’s clothing stores.  History is important to me so I buy my reels from Shimano and my panties from Cold Water Creek. ?

So that means you stay away from Berkley, Fenwick, Mitchell, Penn, Pflueger, Shakespeare, Spiderwire and Stren as well?

[Tennessee Boy]

2 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

So that means you stay away from Berkley, Fenwick, Mitchell, Penn, Pflueger, Shakespeare, Spiderwire and Stren as well?

Don’t get me wrong.  I’m not saying everything made by Pure Fishing is bad.  The new owners might be the best thing that has happened to the company.   It just troubles me when a company I love is bought and turned into a brand.  It doesn’t always end badly.  Humminbird has changed owners several times and they are making the best products in their history in my opinion.  But to answer your question,  I avoid all of the brands you listed for these reasons with the exception of their fishing line brands.

[MN Fisher]

Just now, Tennessee Boy said:

But to answer your question,  I avoid all of the brands you listed for these reasons with the exception of their fishing line brands.

Well, to each their own I guess. I have reels from two of the listed brands - both made under the Jarden/Newell Brands ownership - and I'm very happy with them. They're solid, smooth and sturdy.

 

30 minutes ago, hwright38 said:

I'm not interested in valuing a reel based off speculation because of who makes it, but from it's individual performance.

Totally agree with this. It's the item itself that matters - not who the ultimate parent company is.

[Tennessee Boy]

1 hour ago, hwright38 said:

 I'm not interested in valuing a reel based off speculation because of who makes it, but from it's individual performance.

And I’m not suggesting that everyone should make their purchasing decisions the same way I do.  I just hope that the CEO of the company that made the product I’m fishing with likes to fish.  In most cases I have no idea who the CEO is or what they like to do.  I know Lew Childre and Forest Wood liked to fish when they were running their companies and I know it made a huge difference in the quality of their products.

[kenmitch]

2 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Shimano is a company with a long history of building quality innovative reels.  Abu Garcia was a company with a similar history that was bought by Pure Fishing which was bought by the company that makes Rubbermaid products and was recently sold to a company whose greatest success is in Cold Water Creek women’s clothing stores.  History is important to me so I buy my reels from Shimano and my panties from Cold Water Creek. ?

My C4 was made in Sweden for whatever that's worth....Abu was Swedish born.

[MN Fisher]

1 minute ago, kenmitch said:

My C4 was made in Sweden for whatever that's worth....Abu was Swedish born.

One other thing to remember is that Garcia was a separate company, founded in the US, and was Abu's distributor for a number of years before Abu bought them out in the 50s and renamed the combined company Abu Garcia.

[WRB]

Growth via Acquisition was and is a method to add deversity and profit to the bottom line. The 80's & 90's was a time period when acquisitions were common and most had some synergy to the management and products being acquired. Somewhere along the line synergy became lost and profits for the share holders rules.

Garcia company who purchased the Abu Ambassador reels made in Sweden no longer exist as a manufacturing facility, it's a assembly plant. The round style baitcasting reel added low profile made in China, followed by the round reels  being made in China to reduce production cost increasing profits. The first thing that goes is quality control because it's added cost, the customer becomes QA department.

The next item that goes away are high end metals replaced by less expensive materials the original reels used that developed the companies reputation.

Today Garcia Abu Ambassador reels are a brand name that is outsourced. Shimano and Daiwa are both still a companies that stands behind their products, have quality control departments and maintain inventory of parts and service.

Tom