quicksilver or supertech?

[brgbassmaster]

hey guys wondering what type of oil you use to mix with your gas. in my manual it says to buy quicksilver 2 cycle engine oil but we dont have that around here anywhere so i bought supertech 2 cycle engine oil. i was wondering if that would make any kind of a difference. also same thing with the lower unit  gear lube i bought the supertech but it says quicksilver, but there all the same are they not?

[Long Mike]

Yup, to the best of my knowledge, they are pretty much all the same.  As a suggestion, add an ounce of Startron each time you fill your tank.  It's an enzyme based product that keeps your gas and carburetors in tip-top condition.

[Team_Dougherty]

Wow, this post has been up for two hours. On other sites this would have caused a huge ruckus. Congratulations to the people here.

Now to the question. I use what ever is on sale as long as it is TCW III. I have used, supertech, pennzoil, lubrimatic and others. Last year the local walmart had 1 gallon pennzoil and supertech on clearance for 2.99 a gallon. needless to say I have a few gallons laying around.

take a look here http://www.nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/registeredoil.asp?y=TCW32008&s=Registrant

you will see you makes or distributes the oil. you will see supertech is the same as others.  

[Way2slow]

I'm kinda go with the idea it's your motor and you can run anything you want in it.

With my motor, I can run anything I please also, and you could not pay me to run those discount oils. There is no comparison to the quality of SuperTech to QuickSilver. The only non motor manufactors brand oil I will run is Penziol 100% synthetic.

Just because the oil is TCW III, doesn't mean they are all created equal, like gasoline, additives have a whole lot to do with the price/quality but not going to get into this one either. I've seen the inside of enough motors running cheap oil and good oil to know which I willl always run in my motor and that's all that matters to me.

[Long Mike]

Way2 Slow, since you have seen the inside of enough motors to provide definitive opinions on the quality of motor oils, it is obvious that you are somehow closely involved with the repair/maintenance of said motors.  That being the case, what is your opinion on the quality of the various gasoline additives being offered these days?  And why?

[Way2slow]

If you're refering to over the counter additives you add, the only one I use is SeaFoam, it keeps the motor and injectors clean, and also does a pretty good job as a fuel stabalizer, though I don't use it for that. I don't run gas in may boat that's over two months old, don't care what any stabalizer claims. Why do I like SeaFoam, because it works, plain and simple and have no reason to try anything else. I buy it by the case and I mix one ounce per gallon for every gallon of gas that goes through my boat motors. Every couple of months, I pour a can in the gas tanks of all my vehicles.

Now if your talking about what the suppliers are putting in their tanks, who knows, I have very little respect for the junk we are getting now. I only buy major brands, BP, Chevron, Exxon etc, but even then, I've gotten bad gas so don't have much to say about that. Again though, if you see what some automobile engines look like that have lived on cheap, offbrand gas, you would see why I buy the name brand. Additives make all the difference in the world. Yep, it all comes out of the same pipeline, but the tanker station mixes it to the brand it being sold as. You can see a BP tanker dumping fuel in a Raceway, but don't think for a minute it's the same fuel you get at BP.

Chevron may make 15 brands of two stroke oil, but the additives that goes in are specific to that brand, they are not all the same, just because Chevron refines and bottles it.

[Long Mike]

W2S, thanks for the prompt reply.  I was referring to the OTC additives.  So, it seems that you have decided to use Seafoam to the exclusion of all others, simply because you like it.  i.e.  It does the job you want it to do.

Now, let's get back to the engine oils. What percentage of your evaluation of the oils is based on your personal preference and what percentage is based upon the damage that you have seen less expensive oils do to engines?

[Way2slow]

Well, I think that's pretty much the reason for using any brand probuct. If the price is competitive (actually the SeaFoam is cheaper than most) and it does the job I want it to do, I not one to try to fixing what ain't broke. Go over to Scream and fly technical forum and do a SeaFoam search there, you will see I not just blowing smoke because "I" like the product, just about every high performance boater and race engine builder on that site feels pretty much the same way I do. You see, I don't just mess with motors, I'm a pretty well known and respected builder (just not on this site, too many other experts) of some very stong high performance outboards. Mainly Johnson/Evinrudes motors that easily make 350 - 400 horse power and some turning over 9,000 rpm.

I said I wasn't going to get into anymore of these ticking contest what's better and what's not, that's why I don't get into battery discussions anymore. I did get drawn into one, to my regret the other day, but that ain't gonna happen again.

To give you a short explaination of why not cheap oil. Most don't have the carbon reducing additives and cleaning additives the quality oils have. Many actually increase carbon buildup. Carbon is very hard, and buildups on the pistons will start to flake off and get between the piston and the cylinder walls. Carbon makes a great grinding compound when it get's against metal. Pull and old motor down and see all the vertical wear lines, that's not from the rings, thats from where carbon has ground the cylinder away. Even with good oil, you should decarb a motor every 50 hours.

Then there's the oil buidup. Oil builds up in the ring groves and around and over time the heat of the engine bakes it into a thick tar like substance, pretty much glueing the rings to the piston. Good oils have the additives to help keep the rings and groves clean this buildup doesn't happen.

SeaFoam does a great job at doing both of these also and every 50 hours I just add two ounces per gallon for one tank.

Like I said from the start though, I don't want someone telling me what I should be running or how I should be running my equipment and I dang sure ain't gonna try and tell someone else how they should do theirs. I Just suggested what I would do if it was mine.

[Long Mike]

Way2Slow, Very Good info.  Thanks.

[Team_Dougherty]

Supertech is pennzoil. http://msds.walmartstores.com/cache/23946_1.pdf

[Way2slow]

No, that's not true, it's made for Wal-mart by Penzoil.  Big difference.  

If you like it, and can buy it for a $3 a gallon, congratulations, you just saved about $20 a gallon over what I pay for oil.   I guess there is just $21 a gallon more profit built into it what I buy since all TCW-3 oils are the same.

Ya'll have fun and enjoy your fishing.

[Team_Dougherty]

in my opinion i doubt that they make a different oil for walmart.

 

[TruflShufl]

I don't think he mentions anything about 2-stroke oils in particular but still a good read:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

8-)

[Team_Dougherty]

What's the best oil to use?

     Ah, the million dollar question. We are an independent lab, so we don't make recommendations. It has been our experience that oil is oil, and either petroleum or synthetic-based oil will work well for just about any engine.

These people test used oil to see how your engine is doing. I think they would know.

I will contact them and see if I can send new samples of the supertech, pennzoil and evinrude xd 50 I have and see if they can tell me which one is better.

[DEISWERTH]

Way2slow, I hope your still following/reading this post. Like your opinion on things. If I've never decarbed my engine, will it hurt to just start with dumping the 2 oz. in from the start? Does the seafoam disolve the carbon? Guess what I'm getting at is I don't want a chunk of carbon coming off and causing damage if I start out with a strong dose. Thought maybe I should only put in 1 oz. for a while before decarbing. Thank you

Doug

[Way2slow]

If you have never decarbed it, it's best to do the first one with something like Evinrude/Johnson Engine Tuner. I would get two cans to do 1st decarb on 3 or 4 cylinder motors and three cans to do a V-6.

Carburated two strokes are no problem, DFI two strokes and four strokes (Evinrudes, Opti-Max, Verado's etc) are a bit more complicated, on those follow the manufactors recommended procedure and their recommended products.

On your carburated two strokes, run it on the hose in in a tank for five or 10 minutes to get it warm, give it gas and start spraying the decarb in each carb at the same time, keep enough decarb going into the carbs so you can give it pretty good throttle without over reving motor (approx 1,500 - 2,000 rpm), as you get about 2/3's of the can in it, start backing off the throttle and loading it up with decarb until it stalls the motor with the rest of the can. Let it sit overnight and do the same thing the next day with the second can. After this, take a new set of plugs with you to the lake, and run it WOT for about five minutes. Install your new plugs and go fishing.

With a V-6 run the whole can throught it and use 1/2 a second can to choke it down.

From that point on, if you run it on a constant diet of a carbon guard like SeaFoam and a double dose every fifty hours or so and a good grade oil it should stay pretty clean. I only do this type of a decarb once a year but I put about 200 hours a year on my motor. Oops, I'm sorry, all TCW-3 oils are suppose to be the same so the grade oil doesn't matter. Even though they are "all suppose to be the same" if the manufactors brand recommended for your motor or 100% Penzoil Synthec which is about as good of a generic brand as you can get, your motor will be much happier.

For the most part, it's not large chuncks of carbon, it's carbon granuals about like sand. Over time enough of them actually get imbedded into the side of the piston above the top ring that it makes a big grinding stone inside you motor.

I've seen properly cared for motors with 2,000 hours that had less wear and a whole lot cleaner pistons than motors with 800 hours.

Also note, this is my procedure, which is a little more extreme than the can recommends but I find on a dirty motor, the cans recommendation is not enough. They assume you are doing it on a reqular basis.

[DEISWERTH]

Thank You very much!

Doug

[Team_Dougherty]

Here and every other boating and fishing site.

I received an email in response to my request from http://blackstone-labs.com They will test the oils I have. again they are evinrude XD50, Supertech TCW III and pennzoil TCW III. I will post exactly what the part numbers are for the pennzoil and Supertech are.

They will not say which is the best oil or recommend one. but they will list the ingredients and other properties. I think that should be enough to see if it worth paying for higher cost oil.

Does anyone have any other oil that want to test? These tests are $22.50 each sample. I will pay for 5.   If someone wants to send me a Mercury and a Yamaha sample I think 5 should be a good enough sampling. Please make sure they are TCWIII. I want and apples to apples comparison.

If someone is local to Oaks, Pa and wants to witness the sampling and packaging please feel free. We can discuss the date and time. If you have the other needed samples bring them along. The Pennzoil and supertech are still in new unopened bottles. The XD50 is in an old cornoil bottle because the original got a hole in it on the way to Canada last year. You'll have to trust me that it is XD50.

Yes I have XD50 only because it was free with the outboard I bought last year.

I will label the samples A,B, C etc... this way the lab will not know which is which.

I would like to get this done by the 25th. Who's game?

I will post the results here and other sites where this question comes up.

[Team_Dougherty]

I received the test kits in the mail today. Who wants to put their oil up against supetech, pennzoil and evinrude XD50? I will send the oil for testing as soon as I get two more samples to send.

There has to be some one local to me who has different oil to test.

[Team_Dougherty]

No one has oil samples they want to add?

[Scott C]

i'd be curious about quicksilver....but i'm not exactly local.  

[Team_Dougherty]

The 5 samples sent today via ups

Yamaha

mercury

evinrude

pennzoil

supertech

As soon as I get results I'll post them.