Cheating vs not-ethical or neither

[mheichelbech]

My old tournament partner and I fished docks a lot.  A lot of the time, casting behind the dock required stretching or leaning out of the boat.  We always had both feet in the boat during tournaments however, we would observe other guys that really stretched the “be in the boat” rule.  I’d see one foot on the dock and other foot just touching the trolling motor.  

Is such an action actually cheating, is not ethical or is it simply maximizing your leeway within the rules?  Just curious.  We never reported anyone but did grumble amongst ourselves about it.

What are other rules that have such gray areas?  Also wondering why you seldom or  never see pros fishing behind docks much.

[MN Fisher]

1 minute ago, mheichelbech said:

I’d see one foot on the dock and other foot just touching the trolling motor.  

Is such an action actually cheating, is not ethical or is it simply maximizing your leeway within the rules?

I dunno about the rules, but I'd consider it cheating. You're suppose to be fishing from the boat...keep both feet in the boat unless you fall overboard into the drink.

[J Francho]

What do the rules specifically state about it?  The answer should be clear.

[mheichelbech]

The rules I always saw said no exiting the boat except for emergencies.  Never saw any clarification or definitions one way or the other.  I didn’t know if this was common place or an issue anywhere else. I could see it being a problem in marinas.

[Tennessee Boy]

I would say that's a call that only the tournament director can make.  Just because your touching the dock doesn't mean you're on the dock.  Just because you are touching the boat doesn't mean you're on the boat.  When you officially go from touching the dock to being on the dock is a judgement call.  If I was the official,  I would say when the majority of your weight is on the dock and not the boat you have exited the boat.

[Team9nine]

16 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I would say that's a call that only the tournament director can make.  Just because your touching the dock doesn't mean you're on the dock.  Just because you are touching the boat doesn't mean you're on the boat.  When you officially go from touching the dock to being on the dock is a judgement call.  If I was the official,  I would say when the majority of your weight is on the dock and not the boat you have exited the boat.

^^ I believe this is the rule in the Elite Series as it has come up before. I know it has come up in local events here, too. I agree that if equal or greater weight is being placed on the foot/leg on the dock, you are breaking the rule. Definitely a fine line that would need to be brought to a tournament director for clarity, likely with video to clearly show the possible infraction. 

[mheichelbech]

I always wondered if this ever came up anywhere.  The tournaments we fished in were one off deals or annual tournaments.

[Troy85]

The local club I fish with only says that "all angling must be conducted from the boat.  At no time may a contestant leave the boat to land a fish or make the boat accessible to fishing waters".  It doesn't go into details as far as at what point you are considered no longer in the boat.

 

The following is from the 2019 BASS Elite Series rule book.

 

During the competition days, competitors must not depart the boat to land fish or to make the boat more accessible to fishing waters. Competitors may not shift a majority of their weight outside the boat and onto a dock or other object outside the boat for the purpose of landing a bass or accessing a fishing spot. A bass that cannot be landed without the angler leaving the boat or shifting his weight outside the boat must be released immediately. While landing a fish, an angler is allowed to protect his boat by shoving it away from an obstacle as long as a majority of the angler’s weigh is inside the boat. Competitors are allowed to leave the boat to retrieve a lure. All fishing by that competitor must cease until the competitor is back in the boat. Only then may another cast be made.

[N Florida Mike]

Dang, when I fished tournaments we didnt have any rules like that.About the only rule I remember us having was no cast netting fish, and being on time for the weigh in.?

[Munkin]

10 minutes ago, N Florida Mike said:

About the only rule I remember us having was no cast netting fish.?

 

That is my best technique for bed fishing!

 

Allen

[WRB]

Someone explain to me how anyone could be standing on a dock with one foot touching the trolling motor with the other foot and never had both feet on the dock at some point, therefore exiting the boat?

Tom

[N Florida Mike]

1 hour ago, Munkin said:

 

That is my best technique for bed fishing!

 

Allen

. I take that as a joke 

( hopefully ? ) I actually had a co-partner in a tournament  do that, and was trying to get me to say he caught it.

He was half-kidding, but I think he might have done it if I had agreed.

[Munkin]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

Someone explain to me how anyone could be standing on a dock with one foot touching the trolling motor with the other foot and never had both feet on the dock at some point, therefore exiting the boat?

Tom

 

They day job is Cirque Du Soleil performer.

 

Allen

7 minutes ago, N Florida Mike said:

. I take that as a joke 

( hopefully ? ) I actually had a co-partner in a tournament  do that, and was trying to get me to say he caught it.

He was half-kidding, but I think he might have done it if I had agreed.

It was a joke but seriously who brings a casting net to a bass tournament? That to me just seems suspicious.

 

Allen 

[N Florida Mike]

Yeah, he kept it in there for when he shiner fished.

 

[mheichelbech]

2 hours ago, WRB said:

Someone explain to me how anyone could be standing on a dock with one foot touching the trolling motor with the other foot and never had both feet on the dock at some point, therefore exiting the boat?

Tom

Takes good balance!  I’ve seen it done.

[jbsoonerfan]

4 hours ago, WRB said:

Someone explain to me how anyone could be standing on a dock with one foot touching the trolling motor with the other foot and never had both feet on the dock at some point, therefore exiting the boat?

Tom

I have been known to slip while just trying to get off on the dock to go back the truck in. I can't imagine some kind of ninja technique where I am on the TM and the dock while fishing for a bass. But, some people have also seen bigfoot, so there is that.

[mheichelbech]

What I have seen a guy do is he had one foot on the dock leaning that way with most or all of his weight on that foot and the other foot is more or less hooked around the trolling motor.  I don’t think it’s as difficult as you think.

What I really don’t like about it is that it angers the dock owners.  Some of them can be really sensitive to fishing around their docks and boats and I get it.  I’ve seen a guy break off a crankbait on a dock and left it.  I went and got it because I was afraid of a pet getting hooked.  I’ve heard of guys hooking boat seats. These are probably the same guys that trespass while hunting. I just can’t stand that.

[TnRiver46]

This is hilarious. Who would have thought exiting your $70,000 vessel would give you a tournament advantage? Are bank fishing tournaments weighing in bigger limits now or something? Haha

[Smokinal]

 

One of my favorite catches of all time!

[CroakHunter]

2 tournaments ago, we got beat by 3 ounces on a team that showed up late to weigh in. Cost us about $250. I wasnt worried about the money, just the simple fact that they let the other team do that. It wouldve been different if it was high schoolers or inexperienced guys. But one of them has been halfway successfully fishing big tournaments. 

[D.W. Verts]

If you put a foot on a dock in MO, you're trespassing. That's against the law, therefore it's against the rules.

[TOXIC]

Not in a tournament but just fun fishing in Wisconsin, I had a retired Deputy Sheriff in my boat and he made a bad cast on some rip rap and broke off a lure.  He didn't want to leave it for fear it would end up in someone's foot so I dropped him off on the nearest dock and he went to retrieve the lure.  A nasty exchange took place between him and the landowner.  Luckily cooler heads prevailed.  Hate to say it but tournaments seem to bring out the worst in some people.  

[J Francho]

11 hours ago, CroakHunter said:

2 tournaments ago, we got beat by 3 ounces on a team that showed up late to weigh in. Cost us about $250. I wasnt worried about the money, just the simple fact that they let the other team do that. It wouldve been different if it was high schoolers or inexperienced guys. But one of them has been halfway successfully fishing big tournaments. 

I would have protested.  Loudly.  Stuff like that is simple and easy.  If I didn't get satisfaction, I'd call a vote of no confidence on the TD.  Their single job is to enforce the rules.

 

10 hours ago, D.W. Verts said:

If you put a foot on a dock in MO, you're trespassing. That's against the law, therefore it's against the rules.

Totally the opposite here.  A dock is a privilege.  Often, you need a variance or permit to build one, and if you have one you have to provide safe harbor to anyone in bad weather.  Otherwise, it's considered bad form to step on someone else's dock.  Most homeowners are used to anglers fishing the docks, so it's not usually a big deal. It's still against the rules to leave the boat, in most clubs and opens I've been in.

[CroakHunter]

11 minutes ago, J Francho said:

I would have protested.  Loudly.  Stuff like that is simple and easy.  If I didn't get satisfaction, I'd call a vote of no confidence on the TD.  Their single job is to enforce the rules.

my partners dad is the one who puts on the tourney. And after 30 or so guys gave him a stern talking to, next tourney we got our entry fees plus what we should have won back, out of his own pocket. Now we go off 1 alarm set on a standard clock, at weigh in, not off of random peoples phones. 

[Tennessee Boy]

28 minutes ago, CroakHunter said:

my partners dad is the one who puts on the tourney. And after 30 or so guys gave him a stern talking to, next tourney we got our entry fees plus what we should have won back, out of his own pocket. Now we go off 1 alarm set on a standard clock, at weigh in, not off of random peoples phones. 

Keeping everyone on the same time used to be a challenge.  Not today.  I don't know if cell phones get their time off the tower or from their internal GPS but I've never seen one where the time was not dead on.  Most boats now have GPS which is provides extremely accurate time.  No excuse for everyone not knowing what time it is to the second.