Is rod sensitivity more about feeling bites or feeling bottom/structure?

[Mobasser]

2 minutes ago, Catt said:

Jordan Lee 

2017/2018 Bassmaster Classic Champion & the inaugural MLF Bass Pro Tour trophy.

 

Rod of choice

Quantum Vapor $129.99

 

Just think what he could win with a high end rod! 

I agree 100% Catt. So many folks think a certain rod is the cure all for missed strikes. Not so

[Sam]

Both.

 

You need to "feel" what is on the bottom and at the same time you need to "feel" the bites.

 

Remember, the bait on the bottom hits something and sends the vibrations up the line to the rod's tip and into the rod where you feel it. Your brain takes that information and translates into what it believes is on the bottom, be it a rock, piece of wood, grass, Jimmy Hoffa's body, etc.

 

A light rod with a strong rating can transmit the vibrations back to your hand or finger. The G. Loomis rods are expected to do this and they are light rods while being very expensive.

 

Of course, when you throw a plastic Texas rigged or a Carolina/Ned Rig/MOJO/Jig/Biffle Bug/Tokyo Rig, etc. you can feel what is on the bottom with your finger on the line as it comes off the spool. You can also feel what your moving baits are hitting as you reel them back to you.

 

When you visit a river, creek, pond or lake you may want to throw only a tungsten "weight" on your line and drag it back to yourself so you can figure out what is on the bottom. And if you get snagged and have to cut your line you lose only the weight and not a bait.

 

Maestro, it takes a lot of practice to be able to understand what is on the bottom. Just go out there and start concentrating on what you feel and if you get any strikes after collision with what is on the bottom. Have fun!

[TOXIC]

Notwithstanding the fact that price doesn't always reflect quality, you have to be aware of what I call "information overload".  That's the reason I don't like tungsten for dropshot weights.  Too much information for my brain to process and results in missing bites or misinterpreting bites.  There is a happy medium you need to find.  

[Catt]

1 hour ago, Sam said:

Both.

 

You need to "feel" what is on the bottom and at the same time you need to "feel" the bites.

 

Exactly! 

 

And be able to distinguish between the two.

 

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

8 hours ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

An overlooked aspect of better rod sensitivity or overall sensitivity is feeling the fight of the fish after it is hooked which also has benefits. Adding to this is the line type and braid is near the top (feel nanofil is more sensitive than braid). A very sensitive rod lined with braid and you feel every shake twist jerk direction change way better than FC or mono, they dont come close. As just a recreational fisherman the feel of the fight is a priority for me.

 

7 hours ago, LegendaryBassin said:

Interesting. I have never heard anyone every mention that. Explain if you don't mind. 

 

Explained in whats highlighted. Example of a benefit would be knowing if a fish is coming up to jump you can feel this happening in a better fashion know earlier and be ready for it to breach or even make correction so fish doesnt get chance to jump. While fighting a fish its more difficult to watch line movement so using feel helps in control.

Being able to better feel fish pull shake twist just amplifies the enjoyment of the fight. 

[MickD]

13 hours ago, Stephen B said:

Not sure what you mean by don't expect much.

My point is that with FC and mono the most sensitive rods still will not be very close to their potential for sensitivity.    Regardless of the rod, the biggest improvement in sensitivity will be when one switches from FC or mono to braid.  Since sensitivity, as far as I know, cannot be objectively measured, it is an opinion.  No data, just my subjective observations.

[JLBBass]

sorry, but at some point.........it' all in your mind! I'll take my $200 rods (which i usually buy at least 30% off.....St Croix & Dobyns), and my $200-$250 reels (which i usually buy up to 50% off.....example: Pflueger Patriarch XT, retail $249, I bought 2 at Pflueger's site a couple weeks ago for $90!). Nothing like having 250 in a new $500 oufit!

[The Maestro]

2 hours ago, Catt said:

Jordan Lee 

2017/2018 Bassmaster Classic Champion & the inaugural MLF Bass Pro Tour trophy.

 

Rod of choice

Quantum Vapor $129.99

 

Just think what he could win with a high end rod! 

 

11 hours ago, Catt said:

Google every Pro you can think of & see how many use G. Loomis.

 

According to what's wrote above it should be every one of them!

 

9 hours ago, WRB said:

Light weight well balanced rods are a pleasure to fish with but high price doesn't directly reflect strike detection. Strike detection is a skill developed by the angler regardless of the rods modulus, it's about line movements or lack of.

Tom

This begs the question. Is sensitivity over rated?

[Tennessee Boy]

22 hours ago, Scott F said:

I've got GLoomis and high end St Croix's, along with cheaper St. Croix's and other custom rods. In a blind test, I can't tell the difference.

Yeah,  I've done a few blind test and it changed they way I buy rods.  Can anyone really tell me why a NRX rod is better than your typical $150 rod?  I'm looking for facts not opinions.  Their web sites says they are insanely light but doesn't say how much they weight.  It says they use "cutting edge graphite technology".  What is that?  I think for a lot of people,  it boost their confidence to fish with a $600 rod.  Other than that,  it's hard for me to quantify any real differences between a Gloomis and a Quantum.

[The Maestro]

1 hour ago, PolarKraft195Pro said:

sorry, but at some point.........it' all in your mind! I'll take my $200 rods (which i usually buy at least 30% off.....St Croix & Dobyns), and my $200-$250 reels (which i usually buy up to 50% off.....example: Pflueger Patriarch XT, retail $249, I bought 2 at Pflueger's site a couple weeks ago for $90!). Nothing like having 250 in a new $500 oufit!

I saw the deal on the Patriarchs.  They must be clearing them out for a revamped "new and improved" version.  I have one and it's a nice reel.  At $90 it's a good snag for sure.

[TOXIC]

I "believe" that sensitivity is germane to the fisherman and his or her experience level.  The "skill" of fishing improves with experience.  I also "believe" that at some point you have reached the maximum amount of sensitivity that our hands can receive through the rod.  It's no different to me than buying a big screen TV with 1 million pixels of HD viewing capability but the satellite signal I receive only transmits at 500,000 pixels.  I wasted money on a product that far exceeds what is needed.   

[KP Duty]

5 hours ago, Catt said:

Jordan Lee 

2017/2018 Bassmaster Classic Champion & the inaugural MLF Bass Pro Tour trophy.

 

Rod of choice

Quantum Vapor $129.99

 

Just think what he could win with a high end rod! 

The pros fish what their sponsors instruct them to; usually around the $100-$120 range because that is the largest and most competitive segment of the rod market.  But no, it doesnt affect their fishing.  Japanese anglers typically spend more on their tackle, so tahkiro gets to use zillions to influence that market, while all the American daiwa pros use tatulas.

[Frog Turds]

...I'll say this; is something i've said to myself and is of no offense...but ignorance is bliss and cheaper on the pocket book...atleast for me, once I crossed the line with sticks and reels, ignorance was no longer bliss and cost myself thousands haha...the same thing happens to many of us and will continue for countless others...no one starts out with $3-400.00 dollar on up reels and 3,4,$500.00+ sticks...its progressive like any thing else/sport you become more & more passionate about and experienced with...and no one is to tell you or others how you should/shouldnt spend your earned cash (excluding significant other) 

 

do people start out their mountain biking passion with carbon fiber bikes or golfers with a bag full of high end clubs etc...? most certainly not, its progressive... 

[islandbass]

On 2/4/2019 at 1:23 PM, Frog Turds said:

...I'll say this; is something i've said to myself and is of no offense...but ignorance is bliss and cheaper on the pocket book...atleast for me, once I crossed the line with sticks and reels, ignorance was no longer bliss and cost myself thousands haha...the same thing happens to many of us and will continue for countless others...no one starts out with $3-400.00 dollar on up reels and 3,4,$500.00+ sticks...its progressive like any thing else/sport you become more & more passionate about and experienced with...and no one is to tell you or others how you should/shouldnt spend your earned cash (excluding significant other)

 

do people start out their mountain biking passion with carbon fiber bikes or golfers with a bag full of high end clubs etc...? most certainly not, its progressive... 

Boy oh boy is there some truth in that, not only fishing but just about any other hobby.

 

If and when you decide to step up in class, grade or level, it is very, very, very x 10^100 hard to go backward. 

 

Fortunately in fishing, good stuff is still reasonably affordable. 

 

I was a mountain biker back in the day when use of carbon fiber was coming into its own like on the Specialized Stumpjimper. Wow, that a ways back now, lol. All I had was my low end, chrome-moly Raleigh bike but I made the best of it and either kept up with with folks with better gear or kicked their butts, since the “engine” is almost always superior to the technology. To illustrate, Greg Lemond in his prime would still kick your phanny in a race even if you had that carbon fiber road bike and he used a huffy. 

 

To the topic, I think it definitely couldn’t hurt to use a rod that is more sensitive. Their was a video from the reel test where he compared to rods and I think one was an NRX and it seemed to him that it was better than the lower end rod in the sensivity department. 

Unfortunately for me, even an ugly stik is sensitive in my hands so I know if I held an NRX or like rod, I know I’m going to react too soon and that is going to cost me. That is why I won’t get GLX or NRX rods because they will actually make fishing worse for me. ? lol. 

[punch]

10 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Yeah,  I've done a few blind test and it changed they way I buy rods.  Can anyone really tell me why a NRX rod is better that your typical $150 rod?  I'm looking for facts not opinions.  Their web sites says they are insanely light but doesn't say how much they weight.  It says they use "cutting edge graphite technology".  What is that?  I think for a lot of people,  it boost their confidence to fish with a $600 rod.  Other than that,  it's hard for me to quantify any real differences between a Gloomis and a Quantum.

One thing that I think isn't really being talked about when you bring companies like Gloomis into this kind of argument is the fact you're largely paying for the craftsmanship that's involved with their products. Companies like Loomis & Croix build their blanks from scratch, by hand, in a very long (and expensive) process. 

A NRX/Legend rod's level of sensitivity is somewhat subjective, BUT when you're buying a USA hand-made rod you're going always pay more for that product. Yes St Croix has lower end rods that they make in Mexico, but when you're talking about a GLooomis or Croix Legend you have to take into consideration that you're paying a premium for that rod to be touched by many american workers throughout it's creation. Some customers feel a sense of pride in that. 

 

Are they 'better' rods than what's pumped out by companies who buy blanks from korea/china/japan and have them assembled overseas? That's a matter of opinion from the consumer. 

 

If you've not watched the Gloomis factory tour video's on Tackle Warehouse's youtube, I highly suggest it. Yes it's a few years old but it helped me realize WHY gloomis rods are so expensive. 

 

 

 

[WRB]

3 hours ago, The Maestro said:

 

 

This begs the question. Is sensitivity over rated?

What is Sensitivety? There isn't a fishing rod on the market any price that can attenuate line movements going though the guides, every rod can an does dampen vibration to some degree. The most sensitive component to line movement is you using a combination of sight and feel, mostly feeling line movements with your finger tips. Today's rods are light weight high modulus graphite with very low friction guide trains to reduce dampening line movement that we feel. Strike detection is the ability to determine a bass has the lure in it's mouth from a combination of reduced or increased line pressure and line movements. Experience using specific lures and knowing their rate of fall or pressure it takes to move the lures is important in determining strikes. Using a well balanced light weight rod that doesn't greatly dampen line movements is important fishing bottom contract lures like jigs and worms.

Line type is debatable as long as the slack is controlled you can feel movements, if it is slack you can't. Line diameter increases drag going though water, the larger the diameter the more drag. Nylon has more coeffient of drag then FC, braid is very soft, light weight and has a high coeffient of drag but is the smallest diameter to lb test. Each has it's strengths and weakness.

Tom

[Team9nine]

4 hours ago, The Maestro said:

This begs the question. Is sensitivity over rated?

I would say it's not over rated, but it does need to be kept in proper perspective. There are some presentations and techniques where it's very important, and some where it isn't. Additionally, there is always a balance of factors involved, because other factors like casting ability and playing fish are equally important and come into play. Sometimes the most sensitive rods don't have the best attributes to match the other qualities you might want. There are almost always trade-offs.

[TOXIC]

Short story:

 

I was having a conversation with Kim Stricker of Hook N' Look last year in my buddys garage on St Clair.  He told a story of filming a guy dragging a crankbait back to the boat.  Said he watched a largemouth hit and spit the crankbait 4 times and the guy never felt it or set the hook. Wonder if he didn't have a sensitive enough rod?  

[Tennessee Boy]

1 hour ago, punch said:

One thing that I think isn't really being talked about when you bring companies like Gloomis into this kind of argument is the fact you're largely paying for the craftsmanship that's involved with their products. Companies like Loomis & Croix build their blanks from scratch, by hand, in a very long (and expensive) process. 

A NRX/Legend rod's level of sensitivity is somewhat subjective, BUT when you're buying a USA hand-made rod you're going always pay more for that product. Yes St Croix has lower end rods that they make in Mexico, but when you're talking about a GLooomis or Croix Legend you have to take into consideration that you're a premium for that rod to be touched by many american workers throughout it's creation. Some customers feel a sense of pride in that. 

 

Are they 'better' rods than what's pumped out by companies who buy blanks from korea/china/japan and have them assembled overseas? That's a matter of opinion from the consumer. 

 

If you've not watched the Gloomis factory tour video's on Tackle Warehouse's youtube, I highly suggest it. Yes it's a few years old but it helped me realize WHY gloomis rods are so expensive. 

I am willing to pay a premium for a product that engineered and made in the US by craftsmen who care about the product. St Croix makes the case on their website about America made craftsmanship.  They also give pretty detailed specs on their rods and what they are made of.  I don't see this for gloomis.  There is a five year old video tour of their US factory on youttube.  Are their rods still made there?  If it says so on their website, I can't find it.

[Stephen B]

4 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Yeah,  I've done a few blind test and it changed they way I buy rods.  Can anyone really tell me why a NRX rod is better that your typical $150 rod?  I'm looking for facts not opinions.  Their web sites says they are insanely light but doesn't say how much they weight.  It says they use "cutting edge graphite technology".  What is that?  I think for a lot of people,  it boost their confidence to fish with a $600 rod.  Other than that,  it's hard for me to quantify any real differences between a Gloomis and a Quantum.

I highly recommend trying an NRX. Worth is an individuals opinion. You may be surprised at the difference.

[LegendaryBassin]

53 minutes ago, Stephen B said:

I highly recommend trying an NRX. Worth is an individuals opinion. You may be surprised at the difference.

 

1 hour ago, TOXIC said:

Short story:

 

I was having a conversation with Kim Stricker of Hook N' Look last year in my buddys garage on St Clair.  He told a story of filming a guy dragging a crankbait back to the boat.  Said he watched a largemouth hit and spit the crankbait 4 times and the guy never felt it or set the hook. Wonder if he didn't have a sensitive enough rod?  

Exactly! Right on point TOXIC. Most people who knock the expensive rods haven't tried them. Are they necessary? Absolutely not. Are they amazing and make fishing more enjoyable over value rods? Heck yes!! No questions about it.

 

All rods are not created equal, even high end rods. Just because the price is high doesn't mean it's going to have better performance. For example, just because a rod retails for $399 doesn't mean that price is justified as other rods at the same price could perform 10X better and you would love. Also, go out and fish these rods. Sensitivity tests people in stores people use I have found to be subpar at judging performance. Find a buddy or local fisherman who has one and ask to fish it for a weekend. 

 

If you can't see paying the money, that is perfectly acceptable and I could understand. However, worth is in the eye of the beholder. I will gladly pay to have my St Croix, Megabass, G Loomis, and Phenix rods. That's for every angler to decide. I will gladly let someone demo my rods and I have never heard/seen anyone upset after fishing them.

 

 

[LxVE Bassin]

Any rod with braided line is sensitive. 

[punch]

2 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I am willing to pay a premium for a product that engineered and made in the US by craftsmen who care about the product. St Croix makes the case on their website about America made craftsmanship.  They also give pretty detailed specs on their rods and what they are made of.  I don't see this for gloomis.  There is a five year old video tour of their US factory on youttube.  Are their rods still made there?  If it says so on their website, I can't find it.

I'm pretty sure Gloomis is still located in their Woodland, WA factory. Where they build their rods from start to finish. 

[Fishin' Fool]

21 hours ago, Catt said:

Google every Pro you can think of & see how many use G. Loomis.

 

According to what's wrote above it should be every one of them!

How many of those pros pay for their rods though?  It's another thing when you are getting rods handed to you by a sponsor. 

[Catt]

2 hours ago, punch said:

I'm pretty sure Gloomis is still located in their Woodland, WA factory. Where they build their rods from start to finish. 

 

G. Loomis was bought out by Shimano ?

 

1 hour ago, Fishin' Fool said:

How many of those pros pay for their rods though?  It's another thing when you are getting rods handed to you by a sponsor. 

 

There are Pros at the bottom of the pack that have to look for sponsorships.

 

There are Pros at the top of the pack that can choose their sponsors.

 

Keep in mind Pros are bass heads like us & are constantly looking for that little advantage.